Would this be a legal transfer.......?

[Splat Shot]

I do not want to break the law so here goes.....

I have a friend who lives out of state. I plan on driving over to see him and his family soon. He has a pistol he is willing to part with. The plan is that at the end of my visit, I would take the pistol, bring it home and have it transferred with my FFL. Keep in mind that during transit, I consider the pistol still his as I have not paid him for it yet. After the transfer, I will send him the money as soon as I get it. We both agree on the money part of this and he has no problem with it at all.

Basically, this avoids the $25-30 Fed Ex shipping cost. Would I be considered the carrier in this case? If not lawful, I can just have him send it at a later date to my FFL but would like to pick it up while I am there. Opinions please. Thanks, Splat.

 

[boofus]

Can't you just do a face-to-face private sale at his house? I don't think a FFL has to get involved at all as long as it is face to face. Or is that not allowed for out-of-state purchasers?

 

[Splat Shot]

If it was a long gun, I would not be concerned. Since it is a pistol and across a state line, I think things are viewed differently but I don't know the regulations that well. One of the states is a a bit of a liberal cesspool (Illinois) with regard to gun laws.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. (Added Pub.L. 99-360, § 1(a), July 8, 1986, 100 Stat. 766.)

Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide 2000

 

[jimpeel]

Basically it sounds like the firearm is on loan or on consignment to you until paid for.

I don't see a problem.

 

[Splat Shot]

Hkmp5sd:

"Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off."

Good one, reminds me of my company and our current situation. I don't see a problem on this either, just trying to be careful with the interstate thing.

 

[EOD Guy]

As soon as he hands it to you knowing he is not getting it back, he has illegally transferred a handgun to an out of state resident. Ownership has nothing to do with it.

Also, an FFL in your home state probably will not touch that kind of deal.

 

[tiberius]

What state are you going to? You are from Texas so if you have the gun then there is no "transfer" to do...its yours. Unless his state has registration so he needs to take it "off the books", then I don't see the problem. Its a friend so a receipt will probably be unecessary, but still a good idea I suppose.

An FFL can't sell a pistol to an out of stater, but since there is NO paper worked involved for individual in sales then it can't really be illegal....there is no mechanism to check how or where you bought it.

I wouldn't advocate doing something illegal, but I don't see how this is any different than buying a toaster from your friend.

Oh I see...Illinois...No gun registration there either except for Chicago.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

An FFL can't sell a pistol to an out of stater, but since there is NO paper worked involved for individual in sales then it can't really be illegal....there is no mechanism to check how or where you bought it.

It is illegal for a non-licensee in one state to sell a firearm to a non-licensee in another state. The firearm must pass through a licensed dealer in the buyer's state.

The question being posed is whether the buyer may act as a carrier and deliver the firearm to the FFL prior to the purchase or must it be sent via a common or commercial carrier (ie UPS/Fed-Ex).

 

[tiberius]

Yeah, you are right, my mistake...thanks for the link

It IS illegal for private citizens to sell firearms (pistols) to other private citizens unless they are residents of the same state. Another "great" law that is impossible to enforce. Without gun registration they don't know how many hands its passed through to get to its current owner.

 

[Splat Shot]

Hkmp5sd, your are exactly correct.

My main concern is if I can act as the common carrier (prior to purchase) and deliver it to my FFL. After that, I would do the right thing by filling out the 4470. Quoting 926A, it would appear this would be OK but now I'm not really sure.

EOD Guy states that as soon as my friend hands me the gun knowing he is not getting it back, it is an illegal interstate transfer. If he sent it FX to my FFL he would also know at that point he was not getting it back so guess I don't see a big difference there. What do people do who live right on state borders? If two guys live 1 mile apart but in different states can't the seller cross the state line with the pistol in his car and deliver it to an FFL in the other state for the buyer to register/pick up? To spend $30 for FX to deliver it a mile away seems nuts.

I will call my FFL to see what he thinks and if he will accept delivery from me then transfer it to me. Splat.

 

[Zundfolge]

Without gun registration they don't know how many hands its passed through to get to its current owner.

Thats the key

as long as neither of you lives in a state where handguns are registered I fail to see how Agent Schmackatelli would know (well, unless he read this thread )


I would never encourage anyone to break the law ... but sometimes its a major pain to comply

 

[LAR-15]

Edit: What Zundfolge said.

 

[EOD Guy]

EOD Guy states that as soon as my friend hands me the gun knowing he is not getting it back, it is an illegal interstate transfer. If he sent it FX to my FFL he would also know at that point he was not getting it back so guess I don't see a big difference there.

The difference is that you are an unlicensed person. If he ships to an FFL, it's legal.

The problem I see here is a person that wants to obey the law but is trying to use logic and common sense in reading the regulations. I've been working with Federal regulations for many years and one of the first things I learned was that logic and common sense will only get you in trouble.

The chances of getting caught are very slim but it would still be illegal. I doubt that the BATF would really be concerned unless it was brought to their attention during another investigation. Bottom line - it's not worth the chance to save a few bucks.