Would universal background check require a photo I.D.?

[bushmaster1313]

Do the people who propose universal background checks (who just happen to be the same people who oppose voter I.D.'s) insist on photo I.D.'s to exercise the franchise under the 2nd Amendment?

 

[AlexanderA]

When buying a gun from an FFL dealer now, a photo ID is required for the Form 4473/NICS check. Why would an expanded BC be any different? But if, say, Sen. Coburn's "portal" idea were to be adopted, the buyer would go online and get an OK based on the information that he would input. Presumably, then the seller would ask for positive ID as well as the online printout.

Even now, as a non-FFL seller, wouldn't you want to see some sort of ID to prove that the buyer was an in-state resident?

 

[lilguy]

I have had a photo ID for 41 years, in Illinois its called a FOID card. You can't be in possession of guns and ammunition without it if you are an Illinois resident. I have to produce my drivers lic and FOID card when I purchase a gun.
It does not seem to have had much effect in the roughest areas of Chicago,
they are still shooting galleries.

 

[bhesler]

This topic is usually what ends a debate with my anti-gun family and acquaintances. I have yet to receive a rebuttal to this question.

 

[Furncliff]

Voter ID is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Voter fraud.

FOID cards and similar ID's are an attempt to fix a problem that does exist. Efficacy is another question.

 

[Halal Pork]

That's absurd. I don't know anyone who has a photo identification. The only people with a photo ID are corporate fat cats with top hats and monocles. Everybody knows that.



Yes, this level of hypocrisy might surprise even the most jaded of us.

 

[gc70]

Voter ID is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Voter fraud.

Voter fraud is probably not frequent, but it certainly exists as shown by the case of the woman who was indicted for voting six times in the last election.

We assume that prohibited persons trying to buy guns are more prevalent because there are many NICS denials, but there is only proof in roughly 40 convictions each year.

Given the proven level of problems, photo ID should either be equally applicable, or equally inapplicable, to buying guns and voting.

 

[buck460XVR]

When buying a gun from an FFL dealer now, a photo ID is required for the Form 4473/NICS check. Why would an expanded BC be any different?

Exactly.

 

[jcwit]

Well if they were Amish they would have a non-photo ID.

Indiana presently issues these now.

The Amish purchase many guns, how they get around this I have no idea, I'll ask tomorrow.

They do need a photo ID for Pass Ports tho.

 

[we are not amused]

Voter ID is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Voter fraud.

FOID cards and similar ID's are an attempt to fix a problem that does exist. Efficacy is another question.

Obviously you haven't heard of the case in Ohio where a poll worker is accused of voting six times, or the Democratic Congressional candidate in Maryland who was forced out of the race after it was discovered she voted in both Florida and Maryland. Just because there are few prosecutions, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

And yes, if the so-called "Universal" background checks are extended to private sales, some form of government photo ID will be required, after all the whole point is to make it more difficult for law abiding people to buy and sell guns. It will have very little effect upon the illegal buying and selling of guns by criminals.

 

[buck460XVR]

Well if they were Amish they would have a non-photo ID.

Indiana presently issues these now, but not for firearm purchases of course.

They do need a photo ID for Pass Ports tho.

In Wisconsin a few years back when Voter ID was first proposed, the state, because of concerns of the cost restricting the poor to vote, offered free photo IDs at driver licensing stations. The local Amish flocked there for the free IDs. Not so they could vote, but so they could buy firearms.

 

[todayshighlights]

bhesler

This topic is usually what ends a debate with my anti-gun family and acquaintances. I have yet to receive a rebuttal to this question

Tell them Gabby Giffords shooter passed a background check and the Aurora shooter passed a background check.

 

[we are not amused]

bhesler

This topic is usually what ends a debate with my anti-gun family and acquaintances. I have yet to receive a rebuttal to this question

Tell them Gabby Giffords shooter passed a background check and the Aurora shooter passed a background check.

Damn Good Point!

And include the fact that the New Town shooter stole his guns, and was eligible to buy the long guns, if not the pistols that he used, anyway.

 

[jcwit]

In Wisconsin a few years back when Voter ID was first proposed, the state, because of concerns of the cost restricting the poor to vote, offered free photo IDs at driver licensing stations. The local Amish flocked there for the free IDs. Not so they could vote, but so they could buy firearms.

That has not held true here in No. Indiana, most still refuse photo ID.

But many vote via absentee ballet.

 

[slidemuzik]

Voter ID is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Voter fraud.

FOID cards and similar ID's are an attempt to fix a problem that does exist. Efficacy is another question.

Please clarify your statement regarding voter fraud being a problem that doesn't exist.

Is that to say that it doesn't happen enough to be an issue, or rather that voter fraud isn't a problem because it facilitates policies that you believe are worthy? Means justifies the end?

Please enlighten us on why photo id's are a good idea that work to regulate gun ownership, but not to insure the integrity of our most sacred right to free elections?

The concept that it is acceptable to require photo id for gun ownership but not voting is illogical and repugnant.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Voter ID is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Voter fraud.
.

Voter fraud sure IS a problem. One lady just got convicted of voting SIX TIMES in the election.

Remember when George Bush went against Al Gore and they all got upset over the rejected 'chads' and every Democrat screamed 'let every chad count'?

Well LET EVERY LEGAL VOTE COUNT AND ONLY LEGAL VOTES COUNT.

Yes voters should have ID to vote least someone votes more than once (or like Chicago even the dead vote.)

Voter fraud dilutes everyone's vote and corrupts the process. And voting is one of the core processes of democracy.

Deaf

 

[j1]

Try not to forget that only the lawbiding obey the law.

 

[beatledog7]

Without an ID, anyone could vote. Even if we could demonstrate that fraud has never happened, the possibility of voter fraud behooves us to require that the person who presents him or herself to vote prove that he or she is who he or she says he or she is and is a valid voter at that particular polling place.

True, there are some people who don't have and can't legally acquire a qualifying ID -- THOSE WHO AREN'T LEGAL VOTERS! A picture ID is easy for anyone who is a legitimate voter to get, so the argument that voter ID serves to disenfranchise any legal voter of any demographic is patently absurd.

Do you know anyone who's a legitimate voter who can't get a government-issued photo ID?

A vote against voter ID is a vote in favor of those who would attempt fraud.

 

[StrutStopper]

If a UBC gets passed, why not issue a photo ID so that you only need to do it once? Oh yeah, put a thumb print on the ID too. Why not just make this photo ID a federal CCW permit? I was cleared during my UBC check and the second amendment applies to the whole country, so why not? I say those that pass a UBC get issued a CCW permit good for any state. It should trump any ridiculous local laws like those in NYC. It should also allow one to purchase any firearm they choose without magazine capacity limits.... Ok, time to wake up...

 

[TwoEyedJack]

No voter fraud? Romney got not one vote from 59 voting divisions in Philadelphia. Not one single vote. 19,605 to zero. A significant percentage of these people are functionally illiterate. Not one voted accidentally for Romney? A statistical impossibility. This was fraud, pure and simple.

Same with 9 precincts in Cleveland. St. Lucie County in FLA had 141% voter turnout. Without fraud like that, the election might have had a different outcome.

 

[razorback2003]

Background checks would not fix a mass shooting like the one in Conn. The mother bought the firearms and had a clean record. So of course even if she bought from a private individual and had to do a background check again she would get the firearm.

The problem is that people like the crazy boy will not do a background check. He killed his mother and stole her firearms. How would a background check prevent that? What do people think crazies will do, do a background check to own a firearm after murdering or stealing to get that firearm?

There was a police officer in Jackson, Miss this past week who had his gun taken from him, murdered, and the nut killed himself at a police station.

Desperate people who are crazy, mean, or both will do desperate things to get weapons even if that means killing someone to get weapons. Background checks won't fix that problem.

 

[Akita1]

Background checks would not fix a mass shooting like the one in Conn. The mother bought the firearms and had a clean record. So of course even if she bought from a private individual and had to do a background check again she would get the firearm.

The problem is that people like the crazy boy will not do a background check. He killed his mother and stole her firearms. How would a background check prevent that? What do people think crazies will do, do a background check to own a firearm after murdering or stealing to get that firearm?

There was a police officer in Jackson, Miss this past week who had his gun taken from him, murdered, and the nut killed himself at a police station.

Desperate people who are crazy, mean, or both will do desperate things to get weapons even if that means killing someone to get weapons. Background checks won't fix that problem.

Exactly right, so they'll pass something useless that makes them feel better.

 

[gc70]

Exactly right, so they'll pass something useless that makes them feel better.

Universal background checks would be far from useless. While UBCs would not do anything meaningful to reduce violence involving guns, they would be another step forward in the gun grabbers' long-term agenda to demonize guns, isolate and reduce the number of gun owners, and eventually eliminate the private ownership of guns.

 

[slidemuzik]

How timely.

This should fix it!

Executive Order -- Establishment of the Presidential Commission of Election Administration Executive Order here> http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...nt-presidential-commission-election-administr

From an article at constitutionschool.com; "Following rampant allegations of voter fraud in last November’s Presidential election, President Barack Obama defied his harshest critics this past week, by quietly signing an executive order establishing a Presidential administration dedicated to, among other things, registering non-English speaking citizens to vote.
Article here> http://constitutionschool.com/2013/...ve-order-nationalizing-elections-over-easter/

Make of this what you will. Seems to me there's a lot more provisions for making voting easier than there is insuring the integrity of the process. Just in time for the 2014 election cycle.

 

[blakeci]

Voter ID is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Voter fraud.

FOID cards and similar ID's are an attempt to fix a problem that does exist. Efficacy is another question.

how do you know that voter fraud isn't occurring if you have no means to verify if someone is who they say they are?
It's like a near sighted cop without his glasses and without a speed radar saying that no one was speeding on the stretch of road he was watching. Unless it is very obvious, without a means of checking, how the heck would you know?