Wound up getting a AR-15

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joneb

joneb

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It wasn't planned but Oregon's measure 114 nudged me into a Savage MSR Recon 2.0.
I have not reloaded for .223 Rem/5.56x45 nato so I will need some help.
First off I will need some dies which seemed simple enough until I noticed there are small based dies??? I'm not sure why there are two different resizing dies for a cartridge that has the same external case specs? :confused:
 
I've used sb dies on my Rock chucker, but regular in my progressive press. Never seen any difference

Crimped primers will have to be dealt with. I used a primer pocket uniformer on my case prep station and ground that sucker out for years. Maybe not the best option though. Later I bought a box of reloading junk for 50 bucks. Had a primer pocket swage die in it so now I use that. Both made fine ammo. 10s of Thousands of rounds loaded with military crimped brass.

I've used several thousand 55 gr bullets. Usually Hornady but plenty of others when they were cheaper. 748 powder until one of the recent shortages, then I found cfe223 and use that too. Not much difference .

For my 223 wylde chamber, non chrome lined bore target guns I use varget.
 
Crimped primers are a pain but can be delt with. As my life has become busier I tend to avoid them if I can, but if you find you have a bunch...

FL vs. SB, I run RCBS FL dies for what it's worth loading for auto-loaders.

I use RCBS dies for the sole purprose the decapping pins are easy to replace and little packs of pins are cheap and plentiful. I keep a couple extra packs on hand so I am not stopped dead cold on a Sunday morning when I break one in a crimped primer.

Lee decapping punch is good to have, It's a punch with a metal base for holding the case. You put the case in the base, put the punch in the case, whack the punch with a hammer. Stubborn primer gone. Note, the package says "unbreakable", experience tells me I keep an extra one of those on hand too so you don't have to stop your process when all the stores are closed.

I follow the crimped decapping with a RCBS primer pocket swager. No complaints using it.

I trim them if on first run. I find surp brass to be all over the place for case lenght.

Lastly, Lee factory crimp die. I have 1 older AR without feed lips. I would get setback from time to time unless I crimp. Now I just do them all for consistency.

I have switched to CFE223 now from 748. I find it burns cleaner, the auto measure meters it really well, and it is in stock semi regularly in my area.

Bulk 55gr FMJ bullets for most things.

Thats about all I have to offer. Sorry about having to deal with Oregon.
 
joneb said:
It wasn't planned but Oregon's measure 114 nudged me into a Savage MSR Recon 2.0.
I have not reloaded for .223 Rem/5.56x45 nato so I will need some help.
First off I will need some dies which seemed simple enough until I noticed there are small based dies??? I'm not sure why there are two different resizing dies for a cartridge that has the same external case specs? :confused:
Click to expand...

I have not needed SB dies in any of my AR's which all have Match chambers. Never needed a SB in any of the other calibers I load for too. Personally I think the ones having a problem are the chambers that are out of spec, overly fat at the base.
 
Congratulations on your new AR!

I suggest starting with a standard 2 die set with a full length sizing die in your favorite brand. Don't forget to order a shell holder when you buy the dies. As mentioned, a lot of 5.56/223 brass has crimped primer pockets and the crimp will have to be removed. Your 2 choices are to either cut it out or swage it out. There are lots of good bullet/powder combinations that work well in AR's. I suggest starting with a bullet in the 50-60 grain weight range and go from there.

Small base dies were originally made for rifles like the Browning BAR, BLR and I think the Savage 99. They can be useful if your are trying to get out of spec surplus brass back to where it will work but are seldom needed for AR's.
 
joneb said:
It wasn't planned but Oregon's measure 114 nudged me into a Savage MSR Recon 2.0.
I have not reloaded for .223 Rem/5.56x45 nato so I will need some help.
First off I will need some dies which seemed simple enough until I noticed there are small based dies??? I'm not sure why there are two different resizing dies for a cartridge that has the same external case specs? :confused:
Click to expand...

If SB dies were unnecessary, one would think they wouldn't exist. I found them to be useful for once fired from a machine gun lake city 7.62 brass. Some of those cases needed a little extra loving and squeezing initially to fit in my AR10 chamber. I also use a Redding SB body die for this brass because it can be resilient and prone to variability. Initially, I size it aggressively. After the initial resizing, I try to be gentle with it and just bump shoulders back a few thou.

I don't load as much 5.56 as 7.62 but my Forster .223 FL resizing die is not marked as SB and those rounds seemed to size that crappy LC 5.56 brass just fine. I like a min spec chamber gauge and Giraud triway trimmer to speed the process along so I use those for both 5.56 and 7.62 as well and if I get cases that seem like they're not "plunking" right in the gauge after full length resizing, they get separated.

The real question is, will SB dies actually shorten brass life if you are adjusting the dies to only bump the shoulder back a few thou to fit in your rifle's chamber as opposed to adjusting them per the manufacturer's typical destructions i.e. until you touch the shell holder and then down "another 1/8-1/4 turn against the shell holder to remove all play from the linkage system of the press". If you faithfully follow these instructions, you are going to overwork your brass and thereby shorten it's life regardless of whether you have SB dies or not. If you measure your brass and set up your SB die to only move the shoulder back a few thousandths of an inch, is the SB die actually going to overwork the brass and shorten its life? And if it isn't, is there really any reason to not have a SB die since you may need it at some point?
 
I've been using Lee dies for 223/5.56 since I started. They are not marked as small base, but I think they are by default anyway. No issues with the dies so far in about 1,000 rounds so far. The Lee set came with three dies: sizing/depriming, seating, and factory crimp die.
 
In addition to dealing with crimped primers your brass will need to be trimmed at some point in time.
Lots of ways to do it but if you shoot very much, (and semi auto AR owners tend to shoot a bunch)
Something like the WFT is worth the money IMO.

I had a little Hornady lathe type trimmer which worked great, but was SLOW....
I bought a WFT I chuck up in a drill and it's much faster now.
Since getting the WFT I don't even measure the brass anymore, I just run it all thru the trimmer, if it needs trimming it gets trimmed,
if not it doesn't. Faster to run it thru than measure it.

I like powders that meter well thru my measure for .223/5.56
TAC
BLC(2)
H335
8208 XBR
others I havent tried.
TAC is my favorite
 
Last edited:
Dudedog said:
I bought a WFT I chuck up in a drill and it's much faster now.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I have a L.E. Wilson trimmer but I need to get a .223 Rem shell holder.
Dudedog said:
I like powders that meter well thru my measure for .223/5.56
Click to expand...
I will keep a eye out for Tac. I have H-4198, BLC-2, 8208 XBR, H-4895 and Varget for now, I hear the Hodgdon CFE 223 works well.
 
I use the Lee primer pocket swager. It seems to work pretty well, though I need to set it a little deeper for Frontier brass than for others. It's way better than cutting them out one at a time and cleaner too.

TAC is a favorite for light bullets in my rifles and is fairly available locally. CFE 223 is also good and runs heavier bullets well. H335 is a favorite in 223 and I've had good results with it pushing 52-grain match bullets. A sleeper powder for FMJ loads is Shooters World AR Plus. I have good accuracy with certain bullets using IMR 4064 as well, with heavy bullets. That one is pretty finicky though. One rifle likes it and the other shot so bad I almost hit myself in the back. All these shoot best in my rifles in the lower half of the published load range.
 
I'm exploring the RMR 69-grain bullet now. Potential is there so far, but I need to load a mag or so worth and try them out in both my 20" and 16". I want them to do well in both, but that may not be in the cards.
 
joneb said:
I saw those, if you try them please let me know what you think.
Click to expand...

I’ve tried 3 powders and about 20 test loads and the best shot just over 1 MOA from my 20” barrel: 1.08” for 4 shots. That rifle has a few upgrades. I use a KNS pointed front sight post and put a 2 stage target trigger in it. It’s a little on the slow side as the best group used the minimum charge of CFE 223. I didn’t chronograph it but it’s likely about 2750 fps.
 
Dudedog said:
In addition to dealing with crimped primers your brass will need to be trimmed at some point in time.
Lots of ways to do it but if you shoot very much, (and semi auto AR owners tend to shot a bunch)
Something like the WFT is worth the money IMO.

I had a little Hornady lathe type trimmer which worked great, but was SLOW....
I bought a WFT I chuck up in a drill and it's much faster now.
Since getting the WFT I don't even measure the brass anymore, I just run it all thru the trimmer, if it needs trimming it gets trimmed,
if not it doesn't. Faster to run it thru than measure it.

I like powders that meter well thru my measure for .223/5.56
TAC
BLC(2)
H335
8208 XBR
others I havent tried.
TAC is my favorite
Click to expand...

What about AA2230?
 
Sorry bout your state, truly!!!

You’ll love it.

IMHO there are more powders that will work in .223 than in any other caliber. Bunch of AR 15 shooters out there that’ll share their pet load.

I’m loading for 4 guns and have a load they all shoot well. TAC is the powder in that load and a 62 grain Hornady .

But I have 1 that should shoot heavy bullets very well that I’m playing with right now.

But .223 powder is the least of your worries.
 
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