XCR or AR15 + mods?

[Tigerclaw_x]

I am sorry if I am asking a stupid question, however, please, folks, help me out.
Okay, decided that I need "one rifle to rule them all" aka SHTF rifle. Main idea is to be able to use as many kinds of ammo as I can in one set up - 1 ergonomics. Yes, I can get 3 AKs, but they are heavier to carry around then either AR with 2 extra barrels or XCR with two conversion kits.

Here is the deal. XCR with two conversion kits will cost about 2600.

AR15 with two extra barrels, single TWN gas piston system that will be transferable between them and the M&A quick barrel change system (so I can use one upper) will cost about 1900.
Upper receiver 180
M&A Quick barrel100
Lower Receiver 229
7,62x39 barrel 340 (20 inch chrome lined)
5.56x45 240 (20 inch chrome lined)
5.45x39 270 (20 inch chrome lined)
Bolt assemblyx3 240

Bolt carrier 80
gas piston system 260
Charging handle 25

XCR is more expensive, however, caliber conversion is MUCH faster. HOwever XCR has only ONE company making spare parts for it. Neither rifle keeps zero after rebarreling.

AR15 with that set up will cost less. However changing barrels would take like 15-20 minutes. We still have rather fragile extractor.

Which is the better way to go?

 

[Quoheleth]

I mean no offense, friend, but since you asked for opinions, to me that's overkill.

In SHTF scenarios (which you included) if things get hot and heavy, you want fast & simple. If your barrel is that hot, you don't want to be messing with hot, small parts and barrel changes at a time like that. To that end I would go with a tricked out AR in 5.56 with optics and a second ready-to-rock upper in a heavier caliber with BUIS (or vice/versa on the optics/BUIS). If you had to switch out, two pins out and back in, grab new mags, and you're back in the game.

Shop hard and you can probably get that all done for $1200-1500. Put the rest of that cash next egg into mags loaded up with ammo and training.

Q

 

[Tigerclaw_x]

The idea is not if the barrel is hot, but to be able to use any ammo I will get my hands on: 7.62x39, 5.56x45 NATO, 5.45x39. Thats the 3 barrels are for. The barrels are ALL 20 inch heavy profile. The gas piston is needed to increase reliability, especially with steel cased ammo. But it see your point.

 

[lexjj]

If you are worried about running out of ammunition, why don't you just get an AR-15 in 5.56 NATO, and then buy a lot of ammunition.

 

[JustinJ]

You expect to find a lot of 5.45 x 39 ammo laying around in the US? No offense but the idea that you are going to be running around some post apocalyptic wasteland with all these different gun parts is silly. But hey, its your money.

Don't forget that you will need magazines and bolts for each of your calibers and firing pins if you want to be reliable. Of course even then 7.62x39 in an AR platform has always been hit or miss.

Either way, Colt is coming out with a lower that can accept a 7.62x51 and 5.56 upper.

The Bushmaster ACR should also be coming out with different calibers eventually.

 

[Tigerclaw_x]

Okay then. Case closed. Getting 3 AKs and bunch of mags.

 

[Zerodefect]

The problem is you're not going to find any ammo. You have to stockpile your own ammo. In theory, you shouldn't need much. I keep 6 Pmags loaded and ready in a Maxpedition drop pouch with an old canvas belt run through it so I can sling it over my shoulder. But the rest of my stockpile is loose. (Can't travel with loaded rifle mags)

Don't plan on barrel swaps. Build a complete upper for each caliber. Really complete, bolt carrier group and all. That way you can switch uppers in two clicks.

On average most of the better shooters I've been around have three AR15 uppers for every lower reciever. I only have two lower combos I shoot. A carbine lower with an ACS stock, and a rifle lower with a UBR stock.

I'm going to recommend a Bison 6.8spc and BCM 5.56 upper.

If you choose the XCR that's cool. But if you choose the AR15, stick with a DI model that has the piston on the carrier where it belongs, not a piston setup with a piston way out on the barrel.

Back to reality though.....choose ONE good 5.56 rifle and a pile of ammo and Pmags. You'll be fine with that. No reason to overthink this. Start small and add to your collection as you see fit. No need to jump at a pile of rifles, in a hurry, just yet.

 

[Robert]

Back to reality though.....

Indeed.

Okay then. Case closed. Getting 3 AKs and bunch of mags.

Well that's good to know. But why 3? How many you plan to carry at one time? Or shoot for that matter. Get one and a pile of ammo and SHOOT it until you can hit what you want when you want. Simply having a rifle, or 3, does not make you ready for all comers...

And before I forget, WOLVERINES!

 

[imsobored]

What if werewolves take over? Stock up on silver bullets too!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using tapatalk

 

[JustinJ]

Woverines vs Werewolves

 

[Carter]

From someone who has owned an xcr...Mr. Robinson is someone I will never do business with again. Anyone who threatens to not honor a warranty or order because of a negative comment about his company doesn't deserve my money. Especially when the CS department lies..repeatedly.

 

[average_shooter]

To the OP, if you're looking to have multiple platforms in the hopes of being able to use "battlefield pickup" ammunition, realize that if you're finding the ammo, you're probably finding the rifle it goes with as well. And the guy that previously owned them...

I'd say get a solid AR, in 5.56 NATO, Direct Gas Impingement system (personal preference, cheaper, easier to find) and lots of mags and ammo.

If you run out of ammo you'll probably have enough zombies laying around to be able to score another rifle with ammo, or simply more ammo, off of them.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

A buddy of mine had a Robinson M96. It looks cool, but it is a POS and Robinson refuses to service it (even for $$) and will not even send parts. I'd stay away.

For $2600 you can buy a PSA complete rifle in .223 a 5.45 upper and 10 spam cans of 5.45. That should last you until the zombies eat you.

 

[mljdeckard]

Your interchangeability idea is so elaborate, wouldn't it be easier to just get different rifles and uppers?

 

[Tigerclaw_x]

Well, the reason I am talking about 3 AKs is because of 3 calibers:
5.56NATO,5.45x39 and 7.62x39. Those three calibers are widespread enough to warrant 3 guns. That was the idea: to fire whatever is available to me, be it due to pick up, or in normal time, what I can buy up for the CHEAPEST.
AK has ONE thing going against it: barrels are VERY light profile. Everything else I like about AK.
ROBARM is a rather interesting company. They are VERY hard to get a hold of, they claim that they are SUPER busy, yet they would not hire anyone to help them with phones.
XCR looks good on paper. I do not know how good it is IRL.
AR15 with Gas Piston is a known quantity. Many companies make spare parts for it.
Same with AKs.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Woverines vs Werewolves

You may have given someone in Hollywood an idea.

 

[gotigers]

I would think a caliber for each job, not 3 of the same weapon.

1. for defense: AR 5.56/.223 because of its commonality commonality for parts and ammo.
2. hunting: .308 bolt action of a few models, because of their commonality for parts and ammo.
3. survival: 22lr Marlin Mod 60 or Ruger 10/22, because of their commonality for parts and ammo.

There will be more 5.56/.223, .308 and .22lr around than any others. Dont forget parts. There are a lot of AKs in the US, but not nearly the numbers of ARs.

 

[Cecil Sharps]

bad idea jeans

this is going to cost you more money than it's worth. Even during the hamstergeddon apocalypse this would be of questionable value.

go off and research the tnw quick change system, the adcor bear, acr and two or three other proprietary systems. Para ordinance has an interesting one licensed now.

 

[No Quarter]

I have a very funny image of a slightly-built, fatigue-wearing civilian lumbering around his neighborhood with three AKs strapped to his back, 2 belt-holstered pistols, a 100 pound pack full of spare parts for all of them, every square inch of the body covered in spare magazines all color coded to indicate what ammo is in them.

I see that same civilian moving at approximately 100 yards per hour as they expend thousands of calories simply supporting the massive weight of the portable armory they have strapped to their trembling torso.

I see someone simply walking up to said civilian and tipping him over like a sleeping cow where he will then flail around like an overturned turtle while other, more lightly equipped neighbors strip parts off of him like a nice car left on the Long Island Expressway overnight.

In the morning, he will be found in flowered boxer shorts and one sock, wondering whom he could politely ask for some help.

 

[Cecil Sharps]

I have a very funny image of a slightly-built, fatigue-wearing civilian lumbering around his neighborhood with three AKs strapped to his back, 2 belt-holstered pistols, a 100 pound pack full of spare parts for all of them, every square inch of the body covered in spare magazines all color coded to indicate what ammo is in them.

I see that same civilian moving at approximately 100 yards per hour as they expend thousands of calories simply supporting the massive weight of the portable armory they have strapped to their trembling torso.

I see someone simply walking up to said civilian and tipping him over like a sleeping cow where he will then flail around like an overturned turtle while other, more lightly equipped neighbors strip parts off of him like a nice car left on the Long Island Expressway overnight.

In the morning, he will be found in flowered boxer shorts and one sock, wondering whom he could politely ask for some help.

No Quarter,

I'd like to see your civilian face off against a squad of 200lbs fire breathing hamsters.

 

[JustinJ]

AK has ONE thing going against it: barrels are VERY light profile.

Um, no, that is one of the things they have going for them. No offense but your posts indicate a very poor understanding of the value of weight management. Slap a back pack loaded with 70 lbs of sand to your back and go hiking. I promise your view will change. Assault rifles are not designed to be fired like an M60. And given we are talking about semi auto rifles a light profile barrel makes even more sense. The biggest mistake i see in the current AR market is the gov't profile barrel. Unless you are making a SDM type rifle or mounting a grendae launcher there is no need for a thick barrel.

 

[InkEd]

Why not just say, you want to own a few rifles to shoot a couple of different calibers? Stop all the survival of doomsday rubbish. If you're really worried about shtf buy one rifle in either 5.56NATO or 7.62Soviet and about 10 mags. If things ever get crazy, a smart person would fight their way back to civilization, not play Mad Max for a decade. Stock up on supplies you will DEFINITELY need like water, food, toiletry items, fire-starters and medicine. Just sayin.'

 

[Tirod]

Nobody in the military except a sniper team or MG team carries more than one cartridge. Carrying three basic loads of ammo, three weapons, and a minimal amount of water, etc. means somebody isn't going very far or very fast. To get to all that battlefield pickup ammo and weapons left lying around implies that the people involved couldn't simply take it for themselves. Why? EVERYONE strips a battlefield after its overrun, consolidating the gear for their use, or destruction. If you can't take it, you damage it so it can't be used against you again.

So, likely a dead user with bullets and gun is left out conveniently as an attractant for a sniper, booby trapped, or dead from a communicable vector - chemical, biological, or nuclear. If anything, you don't want to be anyway near them. If they wave, look for a string. If they shout, look for a sniper or ambush. They are a danger area, not an asset.

Better you stayed put with 500 rounds loaded in mags stationed at windows of your very selectively purchased concreted home, with excellent tactical views of the neighborhood, a year's supply of food, and team mates willing to trade off security shifts. You're three times harder to become ineffective in the defense. Likely, carrying three guns and ammo, you wouldn't last a day stumbling thru a neighborhood of interlocking fire lanes. In three, a lack of potable water kills most of them.

Not to push it over into TEOTWAWKI but that's exactly what the concept is. IBTL.

 

[Rshooter]

Wow, this sounds like too much work. First off I would get two or three rifles instead of trying to change barrels and such. Second off I would buy lots of magazines and ammo to train with.

Finally if SHTF ever comes around sit tight and say "Remember the Alamo". You ain't gonna get very far humping all of the stuff you need to survive and where are you going to go in the first place?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

AR15 with Gas Piston is a known quantity. Many companies make spare parts for it.

More like every company that makes a gas piston uses their own proprietary system that doesn't have any parts in common with any other gas piston AR15 system. If you are planning for some sort of existence where picking up 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 off the bodies of your vanquished foes is an option, I wouldn't count too highly on the probability of finding spare parts that happen to fit whatever particular gas-piston AR15 you have in mind.

The biggest mistake i see in the current AR market is the gov't profile barrel. Unless you are making a SDM type rifle or mounting a grendae launcher there is no need for a thick barrel.

The "Government Profile" barrel (A2) is actually only thicker from the gas block to the muzzle. It is still M16A1 diameter underneath the handguards, which means a 20" A2 profile barrel weighs about as much as a 16" HBAR. Government Profile is actually a pretty solid choice in ARs since you can still use parts that rely on a 0.750" barrel diameter, without carrying all that extra weight.