you draw your weapon, they run away...

[Omni04]

Ok this is my first thread in this section. ;D


now lets say you are walking and carrying concealed. All of a sudden, there are 3 BG's. Maybe wanted to rob you maybe wanting to rape you... whatever you feel like. They start walking toward you so you start backing away (they are far enough away where escape is possible but still outrunning these 3 is unlikely), eventually this escalates to the point where you need to draw your firearm. As you do so the BGs have a faint of heart, turn around, and leave.

Now what do you do from here. Do you holster your weapon, and continue with your day? or do you call the police so you can tell them what happened? If you don't you may run the risk of some near sighted witness (or the BGs themselves) calling the police saying you assaulted them.

and im sure a lot of you will switch the scenario and say i wouldn't of backed away, i would of just whipped out my gun. The real question i have is what you do AFTER the threat is stabalized with no shots fired. You did nothing illegal but then again calling the police seems like the right thing to do because they were assaulting you.

So any ideas?

thank you!

 

[El Tejon]

You did nothing illegal? Well, it depends.

Two boxes on the police report--victim and perp. Which do you want to be in? The first one to call the police gets to be the victim.

You must suppress your inner Walter Mitty and Mall Ninja, call the cops. Besides, they may attack someone else.

 

[Sean Smith]

Besides, they may attack someone else.

Bingo. Call the cops, if for no other reason than the above.

 

[Jeff White]

Call the police....chances are they are running for a phone to call about the crazed gunman who accosted them. Better to have the police looking for them instead of you.

Jeff

 

[centac]

Call the police because it is the Right Thing to do, you may prevent these mutts from harming someone else down the road.

Is it possible that this concern that they may call first is a bit over-blown? I have never heard of it actually happening in a street crime scenario. You see similar kinds of antics in domestic disputes and neighbor squabbles, but to have some street hood deliberately call The Man to try to turn the tables seems somewhat far-fetched. I'd be interested in hearing of actual cases where it occured and how it was resolved. Frankly, if I roll up and Billy Buckethead tries to tell me that the paunchy middle-age dude who has a ccw permit tried to rob him at gunpoint, well, we JBTs may not be the smartest cookies but that wont fly far.

 

[SLCDave]

All of a sudden, there are 3 BG's. Maybe wanted to rob you maybe wanting to rape you... whatever you feel like.

Is this a trick question? I don't feel like getting robbed OR raped!

 

[gigmike]

You call the cops. There's always the possibility they'll come back at you.

 

[MikeIsaj]

After they run away;

1. Keep the weapon on them until you are no longer in immediate danger. That in my mind would be when they are at least 25 feet away. That's about the distance they could cover before you draw if they change their minds.

2. Get the hell out of there now! Move somewhere, anywhere, preferably to a known safer location but move away fast.

3. Call the cops. As others have said it is the right, and responsible thing to do. This brings up another point. I hear people say "I didn't call the cops because I figured they weren't going to catch them." Solving crimes and catching BGs is usually done by putting together a puzzle without all the pieces. The more pieces you have, the more likely you are to be able to tell what the picture is. And you don't know what the cops know. They may have a real good idea who these birds are.

4. Call your lawyer. You just never know where these things may go. Also, as soon as you are able, write your own incident report while events are still fresh in your mind. This will come in handy in any follow up investigation. It will enhance your credibility if you later disagree with the officers report or any witness testimony.

 

[neoncowboy]

I'm outta there by the fastest route.

I wouldn't call the cops unless I absolutely had to. Why? What if the 3 of them just called the cops and told a story about how I threatened them with a gun and screamed racial slurs at them? They are telling a corroborated version of the story and I'm the only one telling my side...too much potential for being charged with whatever arbitrary crime the cop decides to charge me with.

 

[Ex-MA Hole]

and im sure a lot of you will switch the scenario and say i wouldn't of backed away, i would of just whipped out my gun.

In my book, that's what I'd do. A gun is my LAST resort to stop the threat. I DO NOT EVER, repeat EVER, want to have to shoot someone to save my life. EVER.

I am, and ESPECIALLY with a gun, a complete wimp. This is the choice that I have made by being a gun owner. I am non confrontational. I will run away from anything. I have nothing to prove, and do not want to be in a situation where I need to protect my life, but I will if needed.

And yes, I would call the police ASAP.

 

[Preacherman]

There's a major legal issue here. You're only supposed to exercise lethal force if you're in imminent and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or serious injury. If you draw your gun, by definition you are in the process of exercising lethal force - even if you never fire a shot. Now, if the BG's run away, you have exercised lethal force, but have not been injured or killed - so if they make a false call, reporting you as having brandished a weapon at them, you're in deep doo-doo. The only - repeat, the ONLY - safe way to handle this is to call it in yourself, reporting exactly what went down, why you drew your weapon, etc. That way, the cops have your story down, and if someone tries to make a false report, you've covered yourself as best you can.

BTW, this is why you should never carry a gun without carrying a cellphone as well. That way, you can immediately report an incident, without having to hunt for a payphone, or go home. If you don't call first, you're automatically more suspect (in the eyes of the cops) than the other guy.

 

[Gray Peterson]

A cellphone should be in every gun carriers pocket for this reason alone.

 

[buzzcut]

Contribute to anti-crime statistics

I would call them to add my contribution to the crime statistics database (besides the aforementioned better reasons).

This way, the popular news media can do yet another story on the positive effects that firearms in the hands of responsible citizens have on society as a whole.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Now what do you do from here. Do you holster your weapon, and continue with your day?

That would be my choice. But then, I'm not contractually bound by a CCW permit agreement.

 

[Omni04]

centac: 2 things, first of all, an eye witness who may of caught you pulling out the gun and the 3 guys running away could of phoned the cops first and gave a BS story (well the truth to them)

the other thing is im 19 chances are if anybody did confront me they would be around my age!


*edit What about look around for a witness? After you call the police you may try to grab somebody who saw the event to give their report as well.

 

[sfhogman]

In his book, "In the Gravest Extreme," Massad Ayoob mentions something very like this happening to him in a parking garage. After the BG's split, Ayoob split too, not wanting to have to deal with the police afterward. The book, and his account of the incident, are well worth reading.

Best,
Jeff

 

[38SnubFan]

I would ALWAYS contact the police after drawing a weapon. Not only do they get my side of the story; if I have a good description and direction of travel, and police have been looking for these guys, I just helped their situation. That, and yeah, I'm not going to deal with the BGs calling before me and saying I threatened them with a gun (and yeah, they WILL DO THAT!).

As for the cell phone thing: It's ALWAYS with me, whether or not I'm carrying a gun.

-38SnubFan

 

[Elmer]

In his book, "In the Gravest Extreme," Massad Ayoob mentions something very like this happening to him in a parking garage. After the BG's split, Ayoob split too, not wanting to have to deal with the police afterward. The book, and his account of the incident, are well worth reading.

Best,
Jeff

Yet another reason not to buy or read anything from this wannabe.

Take the sound advice given several times in this thread, call the PD. If someone ID's you, and you just split, you will be the "BG"......

 

[Powderman]

Good advice above. A summarization, drawing from the points made above:

1. Keep the BG's covered until they depart the area.
2. Remember the +1 rule--always scan for the ones you don't see at first.
3. Re-secure your firearm.
4. Call the police. Do it as quick as possible. Afterward, GO TO THE NEAREST POLICE STATION.
5. Last but definitely not least, I would not worry about the BG's calling in. Even if they do, the officer(s) taking the report will take a number of things into consideration. These are:

a. The person making the report. You are a person with a CCW permit, who has had a background check already done. You are a regular Joe or Jane, and quite possibly are known in your community.

b. What also is taken into consideration is the fact that YOU are the one standing in the police station. If the BG makes a bogus complaint, it will more than likely be over the phone. Also, it's my experience that good guys and girls do NOT routinely do strong-arms for a living.

Be aware that when you make your complaint, the first thing that is done, EVEN WHILE YOU'RE ON THE PHONE, is that the dispatcher will ask for your last name, first name, middle initial and date of birth. Guess what? The po-po will know that you are clear and current within 20 seconds of you making the phone call. You coming to the station simply emphasizes that you have nothing to hide.

If the BG decides to make a complaint, chances are good that this complaint will be made anonymously. So, guess how much credibility will be given to their report? Not too doggoned much, I guarantee.

An added bonus is that the data for the report will be entered into the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, and also NIBRS as a defensive legal use of a firearm. Score one for the good guys!

 

[sfhogman]

Well said, Powderman.
Though I don't agree with (or necessarily believe) all of what Ayoob says, I do think he's worth reading.

Best,
Jeff

 

[ny32182]

A well respected member on SigForum was in this EXACT situation. IIRC, he was confronted by a man with a knife in a parking lot. He placed his hand on his weapon, but did not draw. BG left, and called the cops. GG went home. Police showed up at GG's residence and (I think) arrested him. I believe he is still in ongoing legal trouble, and they might have pulled the thread from SigForum. It was in the CCW section.

Always, always, ALWAYS call the cops if you use a weapon to defend yourself. This guy didn't, and it is costing him lots and lots of time and money to get his case straightened out.

 

[Zundfolge]

I don't ever intend to threaten or bluff someone with my gun.

If I feel I am justified in drawing my weapon, its because I'm justified in firing it to. I've trained to draw and fire the first shot (or two) from retention then transition to isosceles and continue firing until there is no more threat.

I'm not going to wait for them to decide to run away, or decide to draw their own gun or try to take my gun from me so I doubt all of them would get the chance to run away (although with 3 guys I'd probably drop the closest one and that would give the others a chance to change their minds and turn to run away ... butI'm definitely going to have to call the police whether I shoot one or all three).


I'm not sure about here in Colorado, but in some states I do believe that one of the conditions on a CHL is that you are required to contact the police if you ever find themselves in a situation where you have to draw your weapon.

 

[jmcc11]

I believe it would be a good idea to call the police. Even if the attackers don't call the police a bystander might. A Soccer Mom may be walking or driving by and see you pointing a gun at your attackers. She gets on her cell phone and reports a "maniac threatening people with a gun" and then gives your description. To me it's not worth losing my CCW over.

 

[Elmer]

Well said, Powderman.
Though I don't agree with (or necessarily believe) all of what Ayoob says, I do think he's worth reading.

Best,
Jeff

Ayoob writes in a very dramatic style that is quite captivating. It's when he's mistaken for an expert that he becomes dangerous.....

 

[GRB]

...but to have some street hood deliberately call The Man to try to turn the tables seems somewhat far-fetched. I'd be interested in hearing of actual cases where it occured and how it was resolved.

Aaah yes I remember such an incident quite well. It was not exactly the same as the present scenario because I did not back off, instead I shot. One of the bad guys was hit, and both took off. They checked the wounded guy into a hospital and they called the police. They told the police a crazy white guy had walked up to them in their neighborhood (miles from the actual shooting site). They sai the crazy white guy pulled out a gun and just started shooting at them as he spouted racial slurs at them (egads, I guess they meant me).

I was pretty lucky that Ihad already reported the shooting. I did that by screaming my head off for someone to call 911 and then tell them 10-13 (NYPD officer needs assistance code). I also was lucky these two guys had earlier robbed someone else. Now had I waited to call the police, lets say until I got home and they had reported the incident first, what would have happened. I don't know and do not care to know but it likely would have been rough on me especially because they had witnesses to the shooting. Those witnesses said it went the way they had described it. Of course they were lying and this was later found to be the case. Because I had gotten it called in right away, I also had witnesses. Yet had I not called in right away - had I left the area, so too maybe would have the witnesses. Not good at all then if I would have called in after I got home which would have been about 20 minutes later.

Shifting blame is one of the oldest tricks that dirtbags use.

Best regards,
GB