At What point woulod you draw your gun?

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lostone1413

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If someone was having a heated argument with and came toward at what point would you draw your gun? I read so many places were someone feels threatened and draws his gun. As you read the replys it always sounds like some feel that unless the person has actually attacked to that your not justified in drawing your gun. To me in any situation the second you feel he might physically come after you now matter if he is 10 feet or 10 yards away you are justified in drawing a gun. What are your thoughts on the subject??

I think that I am thinking more say someone is coming toward you in a threating way, Their is a point were if you have a gun in the holster and he would be holding a knife were you can't see it. Once he gets maybe it is 15feet away the odds swing in the favor
 
The question is always what is reasonable under the circumstances. There are some scary studies that show how quickly an attacker can cross what sounds like a large distance.

If I feel threatened, I will certainly be alert for escape/evasion routes and ways to attract attention/help. I may adjust my concealment garment unobtrusively to ensure I am ready for a quick draw. I will not actually reveal my weapon unless and until I believe an attack is imminent and I cannot safely avoid it.
 
Once he gets maybe it is 15feet away the odds swing in the favor...

The rule of thumb is that if the criminal has a knife and is within 21 feet of you, he's got time enough to stab you at least once before you can draw and fire—and that's if you're reasonably quick.

Better to draw too soon than too late.
 
You can use deadly force (draw your gun) against another person when the following requirements have been met:

Ability -- does the person coming toward you have the power to kill or cripple you or another innocent person? (This power might be represented by a weapon, by disparity of force -- very much bigger than you, very much younger than you, he's male & you're female, there are two or more of them and only one of you, etc.)

Opportunity -- are the circumstances such that the person is able to use the element of Ability against you? (This takes the totality of the situation into account -- where he's standing, where you're standing, what obstacles or impediments might be between you.)

Jeopardy -- would a reasonable and prudent person, knowing what you knew at the time, reasonably believe that the person who possesses both Ability & Opportunity intended to kill or cripple you or another innocent person? (This includes vocalizations such as threats or yells, physical actions, or any other thing that might manifest intent to do harm.)

All that said. I can't give you a specific answer like, "You can draw your gun when the attacker is ___ feet away," because it all depends. You must be able to articulate how your life was in danger at the moment you pulled the trigger, and in most jurisdictions it's not wise to show your gun until that moment.

I can tell you that if someone is having a heated argument with me, I'm going to be trying to back off & disengage. I certainly don't want any of the bystanders to testify that I provoked the confrontation, prolonged it, or entered into a physical altercation as anything other than a last resort.

pax
 
If someone was having a heated argument with and came toward at what point would you draw your gun?
Only if the person had an object in their hands and were raising/weilding it as a weapon.

Keep in mind, *I* only get into heated discusions/arguments with my friends, folks I've known for years and trust implicitly. If an in person discussion with a stranger starts to get heated, I typically leave. I have more important things to do than bicker with fools.
 
What Pax said.

With one addendum: The laws of each state, while somewhat similar in this regard, are all different in regard to details and definitions. You MUST read the law in effect where you are.

As a rule -- it's best to avoid "heated arguments."
 
If someone was having a heated argument with and came toward at what point would you draw your gun?

Well, since I would be following these rules of gunfighting:

1. If you can walk away, walk away.
2. If you cannot walk away, run away.
3. If you cannot run away, you didn't walk away soon enough.
4. If you have to shoot, shoot until the threat stops.

I would not have been in a heated argument while carrying a firearm. I would have walked away....
 
You had better be able to clearly and convincingly show that you were threatened to the point that you feared great bodily harm or you're going to be in a world of trouble. Some states have 'castle' laws that may help you but in a situation like you describe you would probably be looking at an assault charge at the very least.

This describes exactly what the anti-gunners fear, CCW holders drawing their firearm at the mere hint of trouble. What they don't understand is the mentality clearly stated by the responses here - that most of us who carry take extraordinary measures to avoid confrontation. In fact, I think it is encumbent upon us to maintain our composure and avoid, control, or end these situations before they deteriorate.

If you carry, it is your duty to avoid and defuse problems before they develop. "An armed society is a polite society"!
 
Avoid getting into a 'heated argument', especially while you are armed. Learn how to disengage from/redirect aggression toward you. All interpersonal skills are not necessarily related to firearms use. :p Do not draw a weapon unless you are prepared to use it immediately and without hesitation. That means you are under threat of imminent and unavoidable great bodily harm or death.
 
I'd draw my gun.....

when i'd run out of options (in instances where i get to think about it)

when i'd be willing to accept the consequences (in instances where i get to think about it)

when i'd not be thinking (because of waking up in the middle of the night and being suprised by people who obviously didn't know me because they'd know better than to burst in my door...)

when i saw someone else being assaulted... (on the street? guns in a concert... any number of posts i've seen here on THR)

when i saw law officers in trouble/assaulted by someone.(as a CHL carrier here in Texas died for.. trying to stop a criminal in Tyler Texas... )

I might be wrong on some of these... but those are instances when i'd think i'd be warranted to draw and use deadly force... if the law doesn't agree w/ me... then sorry.... i'm but *a* citizen... trying to do the right thing... and whatever that gets me... is what i get. Ya get what ya get in those instances... and i'd hope that common sense that isn't prevails...

J/Tharg!
 
Avoid getting into a 'heated argument', especially while you are armed. Learn how to disengage from/redirect aggression toward you. All interpersonal skills are not necessarily related to firearms use. Do not draw a weapon unless you are prepared to use it immediately and without hesitation. That means you are under threat of imminent and unavoidable great bodily harm or death.

What he said.

A long time ago, in a lifetime far far away, I started carrying. I rapidly found out the necessity of being able to swallow your pride, and gracefully walk away from a fight. An armed populace really is more polite!

Every time I had to do this, after I cooled down I felt much better. I always pictured in my head a judge looking down on me from his bench and saying, "so, you had the opportunity to walk away, but instead, you chose to shoot Mr. Hothead."

A bad shoot does nothing for the cause.
 
Here in VA I understand that you have to try and back away first and prove you were trying to escape before firing. Otherwise you were 'asking for it'.
 
It looks as if Pax and Gaolie already made my points.

First of all, CCW does mean swallowing your pride and walking away from an argument, sometimes even if you're right. It is better to walk away and be able to tell the story - and not from behind bars.

"Disparity of force," in my opinion, is also going to be rather difficult to justify in a court of law. You had best be sure that if you shoot an unarmed attacker, it's because he most certainly WOULD HAVE KILLED YOU! If the worst the attacker would have done is give you a bloody nose, a fat lip, a boken arm, or an "egg" on your head; that's not enough justification.

OC spray may be an effective option; however, make sure you've been trained in its use and effects - including getting sprayed with it yourself.

I know many of us carry a small flashlight (i.e. Surefire, Stinger, etc.) with us. These can be a good last-resort impact weapon.

Another good idea: Take a self-defense (read: hand-to-hand combat) course, so that an attack by an unarmed BG doesn't have to bring extreme legal consequences.

In short, use your head.

-38SnubFan
 
People on these gun boards are just bursting at the seams to 'draw down' on someone. The gun doesn't solve everything. The above posters make good points.
 
If the worst the attacker would have done is give you a bloody nose, a fat lip, a boken arm, or an "egg" on your head; that's not enough justification.

I have to take exception to that one. With all due respect if you let it go to the point where someone is fattening your lip, breaking your arm, or something along those lines, you have given up the right to defend yourself. The problem with that thinking is that you have NO gaurantee when an attacker will stop or IF they will stop before your dead. I don't have a crystal ball to know when an attack would stop and therefore I will not take a beating in the hopes I don't get seriously harmed or killed from it.

People on these gun boards are just bursting at the seams to 'draw down' on someone.

Sorry - I have to take exception to that also . I do not see that mentality being anywhere near wide spread on this boad.
 
As someone already pointed out, just how will you know an attacker will stop with a busted lip or broken nose and not continue to beat you down, until you lose consciousness?

At some point it will become apparent to you that maybe you can use deadly force, but at that point I would contend it’s too far gone and attempting to unholster a weapon while someone is steady wailing on you would probably guarantee you will be the one getting shot after this person lands one or two more solid punches then takes your gun from you and kills you with it.

Now add in multiple attackers, maybe one who stands by while his buddy confronts you.

This whole idea of one being placed in mortal fear before deadly force can be used is nonsense at best.

You come at me as if you are going to place your hands on me and or making verbal threats towards me and I’m clearing leather.

OCGA 16-3-21.
(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other´s imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
 
I'm a small guy, have some back and neck problems, not very strong. If someone starts to come at me in a heated argument, I'm drawing right away. I have to have any chance to save myself.

Then again, I've never had any heated arguments with anyone. I hope that trend continues.
 
FederalistWeasel,

I'd be interested in your LEO perspective on this.

You respond to a call in a restaurant parking lot and find that Bob and Tom have gotten in an altercation after a fender bender. They are similar sized individuals and neither are gang-bangers. Heck they both have families present but Bob is really ticked cuz Tom's lousy driving has dented his new F250.

As most real-world fistfights begin, after a few words were exchanged Bob gave Tom a hard stiff-arm shove and then stepped forward to shove again. At this point Tom pulled a gun on Bob, and Bob's wife called 911.

In this case Bob not only acted as if he'd put hands on Tom but he went ahead and did it. 'Course when you show up what you find is an un-injured Tom pointing a gun at Bob who has soiled himself in front of his screaming wife.

Who (if anyone) is going to jail this evening?
 
JGReed, that reminds me of a time I drove by a gas station and saw an altercation .My GF knew I was carrying and I told her that that's the kind of situation that I would avoid getting involved with.Third parties can get the worst of the deal .....But to the original question -do everything you can to avoid confrontations , DEFLATE don't ESCULATE. Leave your macho at home when you carry.
 
When

Draw when the threat is direct and overt. :uhoh: Direct means there is no way to withdraw or other physical protection such as a door or barrier between you and the assailant. Overt means that there is some physical activity that threatens your well being such as display of a weapon, multiple assailants, or abnormal aggressive behavior. :)
 
Hmph. I'm very capable, but the vast majority of the population outweighs and masses me.

Friend Byron is a large man, but is missing the outer part of the vertebra just under his neck; a hard blow there will kill him.

Avoid confrontation if reasonably possible, disengage if/when you can, but have a plan and go home in one piece.

Allowing someone to beat on me is nowhere in my plan.

John
 
I'd be interested in your LEO perspective on this.

Drawing upon Georgia law, which has no such brandishing law we have what is called pointing a pistol at another, which has specific exemptions for someone being in fear of great bodily harm or ones life.

I’d calm the situation down, separate both parties, ask Tom to secure his gun ASAP or I might even secure it, it would all depend on the atmosphere at the scene.

Interview as many witnesses as I could find.

If the stories added up to more or less what you described, I’d lay out the options.

A mutual release from prosecution, (Lack of Prosecution Form) or LOP, signed by both parties where neither side wants to press charges against the other, or both get hauled to jail.

I would explain to Bob that he has committed the offenses of simple assault and simple battery,

Simple Assualt which is defined as an act which places another in reasonable apprehension of immediate bodily injury. A mere threat of harm is insufficient to support an assault charge. A threat combined with the apparent present ability of a defendant to actually carry out the threat is necessary. The victim must reasonably believe that he is in danger of receiving immediate bodily injury.

Simple Battery occurs when the defendant intentionally makes physical contact of an insulting or provoking nature or intentionally causes physical harm.

As for Tom, what he did would be open for the judge or a jury to decide, here’s the law for pointing a pistol at another.

Title 16, Chapter 11, Section 102 (16-11-102)
A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he intentionally and without legal justification points or aims a gun or pistol at another, whether the gun or pistol is loaded or unloaded.
Personally, Tom was justified IMHO, but based on my experience I guarantee you dinner anywhere you want if I told Bob that he was going to jail to facing more charges than Tom, unless he signed the LOP, he would sign it.

By doing this, I am covered, the department is covered and you as the person who cleared leather you are covered because now, I have obtained in writing for me and you the statement from the person you had at gun point his desire not to press charges against you, so later if he did come back and want charges the DA would grill him or her real good over the change of heart and most likely after all facts are known and they talk to me would not allow Bobs charges to move forward because any good defense lawyer would use his written statements in court to impeach him, not withstanding the fact he entered a false statement in writing.

Which in Georgia is a felony, but in this case I doubt it would get pushed although I’m sure the defense lawyer would scare the ???? out of Tom with the threat of further charges.

Oh yeah, I guess Tom would tote the citations for the accident, since he was indeed at fault by your description.
 
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