Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

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Thanks again Hinz. Which part do I order for the abutment seal, the shot tube assembly or the plunger assembly? I would like a larger shot tube but don’t want to do a barrel tube extension. Does the model 25 fit a 1938 RR? Also, I don’t have a drill press so I’m worried about drilling the existing to 3/32” by hand. Maybe Cobalt or you might have one for sale.
Sorry, have been away today. Sorry don’t have all the answers you need at the moment.

The abutment seal is a separate item. I’ll have to do some research for the part #.

The 25 shot tube assy fits except it is about 1/8” long. I’ll include some pics of a mod25 shot tube assy in a 94. The 94 and the 1938 are the same in length, so the 25 shot tube fits the same. Also pic of the extension that I did.

On the drilled air tube. I don’t have any right now. Cobalt has a plan to make some available in the near future. He should comment about that.
 
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Sorry, have been away today. Sorry don’t have all the answers you need at the moment.

The abutment seal is a separate item. I’ll have to do some research for the part #.

The 25 shot tube assy fits except it is about 1/8” long. I’ll include some pics of a mod25 shot tube assy in a 94. The 94 and the 1938 are the same in length, so the 25 shot tube fits the same. Also pic of the extension that I did.

On the drilled air tube. I don’t have any right now. Cobalt has a plan to make some available in the near future. He should comment about that.
Thanks. The extension doesn’t look hard. Does the loading port cover need to be changed?
 
Thanks. The extension doesn’t look hard. Does the loading port cover need to be changed?
The mod25 shot tube doesn’t load using the loading port, so it can be left open, or make a plug.

Not real hard but takes a bit of work if doing it without a lathe. Some dremel or die grinder work, etc.
 
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Sorry, have been away today. Sorry don’t have all the answers you need at the moment.

The abutment seal is a separate item. I’ll have to do some research for the part #.

The 25 shot tube assy fits except it is about 1/8” long. I’ll include some pics of a mod25 shot tube assy in a 94. The 94 and the 1938 are the same in length, so the 25 shot tube fits the same. Also pic of the extension that I did.

On the drilled air tube. I don’t have any right now. Cobalt has a plan to make some available in the near future. He should comment about that.
Well....doing a bit of struggling with the abutment seal. Apparently they are no longer available from daisy. I haven’t found any other sources either. So if yours is synthetic and still in good shape you can use it. There is a possibility of a leather replacement. I recall seeing some on the internet, but not sure where. I am considering using a modified 1938B abutment seal, but haven’t done measuring to see if it would work. I’m pretty sure it will, but not ready to commit to that. It would require the purchase of a 1938b shot tube, then disassembly to get the seal out of its retainer, then remove the mounting “stub”. Part of my problem is that I don’t have a 1938 to work with at the moment. The only one I have has the abutment removed to modify it to a 499b abutment for single shot. Don’t worry, this was perhaps the most abused 1938 ever. I’m pretty sure that some kid ran out of ammunition and used it as a club. He managed to bend the shroud pretty bad. I’ve bid on a couple but haven’t been successful.

Will keep you posted as I find info.
 
Thanks for the information. I hope you can come up with a alternative for the seal.
 
The mod25 shot tube doesn’t load using the loading port, so it can be left open, or make a plug.

Not real hard but takes a bit of work if doing it without a lathe. Some dremel or die grinder work, etc.
Thanks again Hinz. Ive been thinking and I don’t want to extend my RR. Want to keep it close to stock outside but improve the mechanics. That means I need to order the plunger assembly from Daisy and drill the 1938b shot tube correct? 3/32”
 
Thanks again Hinz. Ive been thinking and I don’t want to extend my RR. Want to keep it close to stock outside but improve the mechanics. That means I need to order the plunger assembly from Daisy and drill the 1938b shot tube correct? 3/32”
Mostly yes. Order the plunger assy. You will use the plunger head assy from it. You will use your original plunger tube. It catches the trigger sear differently than the 1938b. Then use whatever spring you choose. Drill the 1938b air tube. You should have some amount of improvement from that. A real limitation is the seamed shot tube. They are prone to not being very round and oversized, therefore allowing lots of air loss past the bb.

I completely get keeping the original look. If you want to play, you can use the 25 shot tube without any extension. It just has about 1/8-3/16” gap between the shroud and knurled ring. No modification is necessary. It just looks a bit off to me.

Keep us updated! Good luck!
 
Guys, I apologize for being MIA. For some unknown reason I am not getting emails when new posts are made here! I have been getting them since the beginning, now nothing.

Anyway, where to start?

Cvans, that extension and your other work looks amazing! Excellent job and equally impressive performance and shooting- got to hate those marauding sparrows! Recently the subject of painting a Daisy black came up at Daisy Talk, some good info there.

Stork85, you do have a very nice 1938 there! Cleanest I've seen maybe ever. With your gun I would start by taking it apart and assessing the existing parts. Ask about them here if there's anything that concerns you or if you have any questions. Clean it out well- both the compression chamber side as well as the BB reservoir side. Oily BBs and oily shot tube will kill accuracy! The shot tube has to be kept free of oil. Which means routine cleaning since we add oil to the wiper and that oil migrates from the compression chamber through the air tube into the shot tube as the gun is shot. So at the first sign of any loss of accuracy, clean the shot tube. I use either alcohol or Goof Off citrus cleaner on a patch followed by dry patches.

As Hinz has ably advised you, a new spring, drilled air tube and a fresh piston from a Daisy plunger assembly if needed should put you right at your goal. I'm not sure what spring they were using in the No. 1938s like yours, but if it doesn't have ground ends, even the stock new production 1938B spring with a 1/2" to 5/8" preload spacer will make a marked improvement even w/o a drilled air tube. Like around 300 fps.

As for the piston and abutment seals needing attention, if this gun has sat unused for a few years what happens is the piston can take on the small dimples from the staking used on the shroud to hold the barrel/abutment seal in place. Not always, but often enough these dimples cause a loss of pressure when the gun's shot. So if you see the piston has become distorted on its edge it's good policy to replace it. If you have access to a chronograph, it will tell you the condition of the seals fairly well but it's not always the seals that cause a lower MV- the spring can also become distorted and if it has enough distortion to it, it can rub on the plunger tube which robs power. The newer guns seem less prone to this but the '60s guns were bad about it. A gun left cocked for extended length of time can distort regardless of the era it was made. Bottom line is the spring should fall off the plunger tube by its own weight. If it doesn't, it's distorted. Maybe not much but it's on its way out IMHO. Good idea to be proactive and replace it at the first sign it's going south than to wait until later. It'll save you taking it apart again, too.

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Welcome back Mark. I was starting to worry that maybe something might have happened to you.
 
Well... I just won a 1938 on eBay! So now will be able to work out some improvements. This is a project I’ve really wanted to do.

Thanks Stork85 for inspiring me to move forward on this project!

Stay tuned!
 
Congratulations hinz. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Please keep us posted.
 
Hinz has a really cool gun coming! I got a look at it, turns out it's one of the earliest versions of the No. 1938 model (1972-'73 would be my guess) and it's very close to the No. 111 Model 40 that the Red Ryder was based on going all the way back to 1940. Daisy did an excellent job on all of the No. 1938 guns IMHO. These guns even kept using "REG. NO." after 1972 when almost all other Daisys had changed to "LOT NO." The only changes made during their relatively short 8 year run before the advent of the Model 1938A/B was to the screws (went to phillips heads), levers (see photo) and the stock logo position (went to RH logo). But even a late model 1938 is way closer to the 111-40 than the current 1938B. That's not to say the '38B doesn't have some very good features- it does, and in some respects they are a better design- but if you like the 111-40 but find them too expensive, or don't care for the hard cocking, short-throw lever caused by the low lever pivot position, then the 1938 is what to look for.

1938 RED RYDER CARBINE FIRST LEVER OVER LATER LEVER.jpg .
 
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Your getting some amazing velocities out of that gun. Nice work.
Have you ever checked the accuracy on it?
 
That's outrageous- pushing the envelope? More like reinventing it! Gotta love the ingenuity of it all, and just so great to watch this unfold!

hinz57, this quit being a $15 Daisy a long, LONG time ago!
 
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Wow! Can’t imagine the amount of time and effort! Great job. Hope it’s accuracy matches it’s power. Thx for sharing.
 
Hinz has a really cool gun coming! I got a look at it, turns out it's one of the earliest versions of the No. 1938 model (1972-'73 would be my guess) and it's very close to the No. 111 Model 40 that the Red Ryder was based on going all the way back to 1940. Daisy did an excellent job on all of the No. 1938 guns IMHO. These guns even kept using "REG. NO." after 1972 when almost all other Daisys had changed to "LOT NO." The only changes made during their relatively short 8 year run before the advent of the Model 1938A/B was to the screws (went to phillips heads), levers (see photo) and the stock logo position (went to RH logo). But even a late model 1938 is way closer to the 111-40 than the current 1938B. That's not to say the '38B doesn't have some very good features- it does, and in some respects they are a better design- but if you like the 111-40 but find them too expensive, or don't care for the hard cocking, short-throw lever caused by the low lever pivot position, then the 1938 is what to look for.

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Nice. The lever is different from mine. According to my research based upon Reg #, mine is 1974.
 
Hinz, ever thought of fitting a 499 shot tube into a red rider ? Using the RR abutment?
Done it! It works really well. Only way to achieve 400+ mv in a 1938b. Must also use custom air tube.

Used 1.5 tubes in one for Cobalt. He tested around 420 in his #1 repeater.

Fair bit of machining involved!
 
Done it! It works really well. Only way to achieve 400+ mv in a 1938b. Must also use custom air tube.

Used 1.5 tubes in one for Cobalt. He tested around 420 in his #1 repeater.

Fair bit of machining involved!
Excellent, I don’t want an extended “barrel”. Shot tube would fit into the stock shroud bushing and appear factory. If that’s possible.
I guess I don’t understand the “custom” air tube ? I’d want the ID enlarged, is there something else to be done to it ? Using a 1938 abutment.
I’d be interested if you’d want to build it. Thx
 
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