All kind of problems with Servicio primers

What color main spring are you using in that CZ P01?
Black is for competition only, federal primers.
Blue can work but need to verify.
Gold will set off everything.

I run blue and it sets off various flavors of rifle primers.
 
I’ve been running the blue one, but I sent it back to Cajun to install the decocker components that require the slave pin. I think the black spring was in the packaging I sent back so I’ll confirm they didn’t install that by mistake.
 
LiveLife said:
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< Pondering back through 30 years ... :) >
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I thought about what Walkalong posted this morning while I did some yard work on our acreage and there is something we didn't consider.

I mean, how can some THR members have no problems while other members have problems with the same primer?

What maybe happening is what I experienced with Wolf LP primers back 15 years ago when Powder Valley sold them and also with PMC/Tula/Fiocchi/S&B primers I bought in previous component shortages when they were harder to seat. These were "Metric" sized primers with slightly larger diameter cups manufactured using "millimeter" measurements instead of "inch" measurements of domestic brand primers.

I recall running comments about Wolf primers that they were good for using in enlarged primer pockets to extend the life of brass. And while I liked the consistency of Fiocchi SP primers, they were slightly tighter to seat fully .004" below flush and in some once-fired 9mm brass with tighter primer pockets like S&B/RWS, I could not seat them even to flush and ended up sorting these headstamp brass out to prime with domestic brand primers.

Interestingly, I did not have primer seating problems with Magtech SP, S&B SP/LP/SR/LR, Tula SR/.223 (copper/brass colored) primers. Of course, I haven't had any problems with various CCI/Federal/Remington/Winchester SP/LP/SR/LR and CCI 41 primers.

So, if you are using mostly once-fired brass with tighter primer pockets, you may have seating issues with slightly larger "Metric" sized primers and using brass with enlarged primer pockets that have been reloaded multiple times may allow fully seating of these primers to slightly below flush around .004" that we aim for.

Of course, YMMV.
Click to expand...

I partially agree with this assessment however should add that Ginex primers are also metric and seat VERY difficultly IME, yet I have not had a failure with those and neither have any folks I know who use them. Some of those folks are the same as who have used the Servicios Aventuras primers.

I admit, they here may be a learning curve with these Argentine primers. I guess I’m just going to not play the game this time.
 
LiveLife said:
.
.
< Pondering back through 30 years ... :) >
.
.
So, if you are using mostly once-fired brass with tighter primer pockets, you may have seating issues with slightly larger "Metric" sized primers and using brass with enlarged primer pockets that have been reloaded multiple times may allow fully seating of these primers to slightly below flush around .004" that we aim for.

Of course, YMMV.
Click to expand...

I am using new brass so primer pockets are probably tight.
 
We just loaded 40 9mm using 10 Argentine and 30 CCI SPP. My buddy was doing the reloading and I was doing the supervising. He used a Lee press with the priming attachment and had no trouble seating so long as he kept good pressure on the Servicios. The brass was R-P and all the primers were set below flush. Tomorrow we will go to the range and give it a quick test.
 
BRatigan said:
We just loaded 40 9mm using 10 Argentine and 30 CCI SPP. My buddy was doing the reloading and I was doing the supervising. He used a Lee press with the priming attachment and had no trouble seating so long as he kept good pressure on the Servicios. The brass was R-P and all the primers were set below flush. Tomorrow we will go to the range and give it a quick test.
Click to expand...

Just visually RP always look like they have huge primer pockets. I never reloaded them for that reason. Not scientific at all, but they always just looked bigger - maybe because they have more of a rounded edge.
 
This has been a very interesting topic. Since I’ve loaded about half of the 5000 that I bought, I’ve now gone back and run them through my primer for a second time. I haven’t had a chance to test any since my misfires, maybe tomorrow. Some felt like there was a tiny bit of movement, most felt solid already. I’ve only used CCI and Winchester primers since 1968 so this has been a new experience for me. Thanks for all of the comments.
 
rperyam said:
This has been a very interesting topic. Since I’ve loaded about half of the 5000 that I bought, I’ve now gone back and run them through my primer for a second time. I haven’t had a chance to test any since my misfires, maybe tomorrow. Some felt like there was a tiny bit of movement, most felt solid already. I’ve only used CCI and Winchester primers since 1968 so this has been a new experience for me. Thanks for all of the comments.
Click to expand...

be very careful reseating primers on loaded ammo…
 
I guess I’m a little late but I wish posters (maybe in future posts) would tell what tool they are priming with. Hand held, bench mounted,
progressive? Which manufacturer? Which model? I’ve got three different Lee hand held models and it makes a difference. My Dillon
SDB doesn’t always do the job and I have to finish them with the Lee. It matters. I’ll post my experiences in a later post.
 
I never use X below flush, I use seated to the bottom of the primer pocket, as @mdi posted earlier.

An old post of mine about priming.

"Primers need to be seated until the anvil legs touch the bottom of the primer pocket (Minimum), and then a little more so the cup pushes down around the legs, up until it hits the bottom of the primer pocket (Maximum).

If seated to little (Anvil legs not touching the bottom of the primer pocket), the firing pin has to seat it fully and then have enough energy left over to crush the priming compound between the cup and the anvil. Sometimes it does not, these are the ones that so often fire on the second try. The first try seats them fully, the second try fires them.

bds has some great primer pics here somewhere that shows the cup and anvil and how they are positioned with each other prior to seating. The anvil legs are sticking out of the cup just a little bit.

After fully seating the anvil's legs and the primer cup is hard against the bottom of the pocket, it takes a great deal of pressure at this point to damage the primer so much it fails.

It is fairly easy to seat a primer too soft, not fully seating it, so that it misfires, but difficult to seat them so hard it damages them to the point of not firing. This statement is based on my decades of seating primers with various tools. I have never had one fail from being seated to hard/deep. Not saying that with some primer tools and some gorilla grips it can't be done, but it is 100/1000 times less likely to happen than seating one too shallow/soft.

We have threads here all the time when failures to fire end up being primers seated too softly/shallow. I can't remember one where it turned out someone managed to crush a primer into submission. I would suggest to all to try it. Some priming systems simply cannot do it for mechanical reasons. Some might have enough travel to do it if you have the strength, That cup surrounded by the brass primer pocket is tough to crush. Very tough."
 
blackd24 said:
Using my P-01 that has reduced springs and the defensive package from Cajun gun works, it was about 50%. When I recocked the hammer it was 100%. Same deal with my new dagger.
Click to expand...

Put the factory mainsprings back in the pistol when using these primers. It is obvious to me, they are less sensitive than the primers you are used to.
 
blackd24 said:
And to really throw a wrench in it.. I was using the RMR 9mm cases so that could have caused issues. Just another variable to consider. This was the first time using them and they are new.
Click to expand...
You had a perfect storm! The servicio primers are a tiny bit bigger, and have pretty hard cups. Compare to some eastern european primers. They take a bit more effort to seat. I use case lube when I'm loading with these. Really gotta put a bit more ooomph in seating them. Next, that RMR brass....man, most inconsistent primer pockets I've ever seen. Random sample, about 2 per handful couldn't pass a go/nogo guage. I bought a couple thousand of them. Finally just had to set up the swager and swage every case before I got consistent primer seating on my Revolution. I will also add, my P01 ran them fine, stock springs.
 
blackd24 said:
I am using new brass so primer pockets are probably tight.
Click to expand...
Could be.

blackd24 said:
Just visually RP always look like they have huge primer pockets. I never reloaded them for that reason. Not scientific at all, but they always just looked bigger - maybe because they have more of a rounded edge.
Click to expand...
The new R-P brass with "." to the right definitely has rounded rim.

As to primer pocket size (inside diameter and depth), I could consider doing a myth busting thread but since mixed range brass will have varying amount of primer pocket enlargement from being reloaded multiple times, not sure how accurate the measurements will be.

jag22 said:
I wish posters ... would tell what tool they are priming with. Hand held, bench mounted, progressive? Which manufacturer? Which model?
Click to expand...
These cases were press primed on new Six Pack Pro/Pro 6000 with primer seating depth ranging from .003" to .005" below flush - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ing-for-oal-consistency.911743/#post-12442618

index.php


And these cases were press primed on new 2023 Pro 1000 with primer seating depth ranging from .004" to .005" below flush - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...3-lee-pro-1000-unboxing.916672/#post-12567479

index.php


Walkalong said:
bds has some great primer pics here somewhere that shows the cup and anvil and how they are positioned with each other prior to seating. The anvil legs are sticking out of the cup just a little bit.
Click to expand...
Here they are < I used to post as member "bds" >

index.php

index.php

index.php
 
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earlthegoat2 said:
however should add that Ginex primers are also metric and seat VERY difficultly IME, yet I have not had a failure with those and neither have any folks I know who use them
Click to expand...
I'm hoping I'm translating you post correctly to me that you either experience difficulty seating them or that they were very difficult to seat.

In any case, my experience with Ginex SPP has differed from yours a bit. They fed through my Hornady LNL AP as easily as CCI (my default standard primer for 9mm) and I didn't feel that it required additional pressure to seat them...granted I was sizing cases at the same time, so I might have been using more than my usual pressure on the handle. A couple of thousand rounds only produced 2 light strikes, which I wrote off to operator fatigue.

I primed another 500 this afternoon using my Lee ACP which offers a lot more feel to the seating process. Priming mixed range brass which had been deprimed and cleaned (also sorted out military/crimped cases), I could easily feel when a case had a larger primer pocket. I was paying more attention than normal as I'm trying to solve a feeding issue on the press and was priming more slowly than I might otherwise have been. During the 500 case run, I encountered less than 10 which required extra pressure to fully seat the primers.

These were the nickle plated Genix primers as opposed to the brass primers. The nickle plated ones have proven about as soft as my Federal Magnum SPP, the brass ones are closer to the hardness of CCI SPP...I don't use Winchester or Remington SPP at all
 
[QUO issue on the press and w the 5.
9mmepiphany said:
I'm hoping I'm translating you post correctly to me that you either experience difficulty seating them or that they were very difficult to seat.

In any case, my experience with Ginex SPP has differed from yours a bit. They fed through my Hornady LNL AP as easily as CCI (my default standard primer for 9mm) and I didn't feel that it required additional pressure to seat them...granted I was sizing cases at the same time, so I might have been using more than my usual pressure on the handle. A couple of thousand rounds only produced 2 light strikes, which I wrote off to operator fatigue.

I primed another 500 this afternoon using my Lee ACP which offers a lot more feel to the seating process. Priming mixed range brass which had been deprimed and cleaned (also sorted out military/crimped cases), I could easily feel when a case had a larger primer pocket. I was paying more attention than normal as I'm trying to solve a feeding issue on the press and was priming more slowly than I might otherwise have been. During the 500 case run, I encountered less than 10 which required extra pressure to fully seat the primers.

These were the nickle plated Genix primers as opposed to the brass primers. The nickle plated ones have proven about as soft as my Federal Magnum SPP, the brass ones are closer to the hardness of CCI SPP...I don't use Winchester or Remington SPP at all
Click to expand...

They are quite hard to seat but they have all seated with adequate pressure.

They are brass.

My personal experience also only includes the Ginex large rifle primers so maybe that is also something to consider.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
LiveLife said:
Fiocchi SP primers, they were slightly tighter to seat fully .004" below flush and in some once-fired 9mm brass with tighter primer pockets like S&B/RWS, I could not seat them even to flush ... Interestingly, I did not have primer seating problems with Magtech SP, S&B SP/LP/SR/LR, Tula SR/.223 (copper/brass colored) primers
Click to expand...
My experience with Fiocchi primers is a little different ... Never noticed them being hard to seat at all
Click to expand...
As I explained in post #24, there may be reasons why different THR members are having differing primer seating experience with same primers - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-with-servicio-primers.916998/#post-12576840

"how can some THR members have no problems while other members have problems with the same primer?

... if you are using mostly once-fired brass with tighter primer pockets, you may have seating issues with slightly larger "Metric" sized primers. But using brass with enlarged primer pockets that have been reloaded multiple times may allow fully seating of these primers to slightly below flush around .004" that we aim for."​

OP is using new brass with likely tighter primer pockets and having seating problems with Servicio & Aventuras SP primers
blackd24 said:
I am using new brass so primer pockets are probably tight.
Click to expand...

tightgroup tiger said:
Fiocchi primers ... feed better and seat better and more consistently than the Winchesters ... in my LNL-AP
Click to expand...
And as member jag22 posted, different THR members using differing reloading equipment may explain differing primer seating experience.
jag22 said:
I wish posters ... would tell what tool they are priming with. Hand held, bench mounted, progressive? Which manufacturer? Which model?
Click to expand...
My primer seating equipment experience includes Dillon 550, Lee Pro 1000, Lee hand primers (Auto-Prime/XR), Dillon 650, Lee Classic Turret/ABLP with Safety Prime, Lee Auto Bench Prime, Lee SPP/Pro 6000 and 2023 Lee Pro 1000.

Of these, now discontinued original Lee Auto-Prime provides the best primer seating "feel" and prefer to use over replacement XR which requires more seating effort. With both hand priming tools, I can readily seat various domestic and foreign "Metric" primers to around .004" below flush, even to .008" crush depth with extra effort. (BTW, seating primers to .008" has been myth busted to ignite reliably)

index.php


While even 2018 updated Pro 1000 carried primer brand selectivity, "WARNING: Only CCI or Remington brand primers are safe to use with this press", new priming systems for SPP/Pro 6000 and 2023 Pro 1000 do not - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...3-lee-pro-1000-unboxing.916672/#post-12569073

Automatic priming system ... reliable and safe with any brand or size of primer
​
And why I specifically seated Tula/PMC/S&B primers in addition to CCI in different headstamp brass (Blazer/.FC./R-P/R-P"."/WIN/FC/G.F.L.) to test this claim that new priming systems will work reliably with "any" brand or size of primer and both SPP/Pro 6000 and 2023 Pro 1000 priming systems have been reliable regardless of primer brand/size - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...3-lee-pro-1000-unboxing.916672/#post-12567479

CCI SP seated to .004" below flush in FC case, S&B SP seated to .003" below flush in R-P case, PMC SP seated to .005" below flush in WIN case, PMC seated to .003" below flush in Blazer/R-P cases - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ing-for-oal-consistency.911743/#post-12442618

index.php


CCI/S&B/PMC/TulAmmo SP primers in various headstamp brass (Blazer/.FC./R-P/R-P"."/WIN/FC/G.F.L. pictured) and they fed reliably 100% ... seated to .004"-.005" below flush with most seating around .004" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...3-lee-pro-1000-unboxing.916672/#post-12567479

index.php
 
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Well I have some old 38 brass that has probably been fired 5 times so I think I’ll use the rest of the primers in that brass. I’ll do some more testing with the RMR brass with different primers.
 
Well this thread got my attention as a while ago I purchased 2 bricks of these SPP from Norma. This morning after breakfast I loaded up 50 rounds of 124gr 9mm using RMR 124gr FMJ,Win cases,4.7gr of Unique and S&A primers for testing. I cleaned out the primer pockets. The primers seated normally at .003" depth without any problems ,felt like any other brand of primers going in.The results using a G43x (lightest striker indent of my 9's) were all 50 went bang and were accurate. Brought a sigh of relief to my brain and I would buy the product again.
 
Slamfire said:
Put the factory mainsprings back in the pistol when using these primers. It is obvious to me, they are less sensitive than the primers you are used to.
Click to expand...

Nope!!! Bad advice.

As someone who owns around 24 CZ pistols and most of them containing CGW parts, don't install the factory main spring.

Doing so on the standard or defensive carry package will damage the firing pin and other parts. CGW and CZ custom flat out say in the instructions and website DO NOT use the factory main spring.
 
Thanks for providing that info. I don’t think I’ll use these primers for 9mm that will be shot from the P-01. I have other primers that have worked just fine.
 
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