Do you feel under gunned with a revolver?

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Yet there are some posting on this thread that they require a high capacity automatic because they do not believe that marksmanship skills are relevant to a gun fight.

Heh...which post?

Square range marksmanship skills probably are not very relevant to the fight, but all shooters must learn how to use their weapon. Consistent, small groups at paper demonstrates proficiency in that area. Failing to master trigger control is a huge problem with many shooters.

The problem is most people do not go past that minimum level of proficiency.
 
In and of itself, revolvers may not be the answer, but in my experience those that carry them are less likely to depend on the volumn of available shots, and more likely to depend on making "meaningful hits," because they don't have any other option.

Speaking for myself here and as a person who carries either (revolver or semi-auto), depending on the circumstance or whim at the moment; it's been my experience that, with a modicum of sound training, the object of scoring "meaningful" hits in a gunfight is not compromised by using a high-capacity semi-auto as opposed to a revolver. Before retiring after thirty years of service, our agency transitioned from revolvers to semi-autos and one of the mantras our instructors continually drilled into every officer's head was to "make every shot count" because you are accountable for every shot fired. This fundamental principle is just as true for Chief Special users as it is for Glock users. I think it's just as likely for an untrained person firing a revolver under extreme stress to "push their panic button and dump a whole (cylinder) as fast as they can pull the trigger." What might follow in that instance is the same as if he were firing an automatic: "a lot of shots fired with relatively few hits", albeit, maybe less shots fired than would be if the same untrained individual was using a Glock.
The awful truth is, as I and others have recounted in earlier posts, in "the heat of the moment", there will likely be misses when exchanging bullets with people who mean to kill us, even with revolvers, no matter how well-disciplined, well-intentioned and well-trained we are. The idea is to minimize, if not eliminate, stray shots. To say otherwise reflects a certain lack of awareness as to the unpredictable and predictable dynamics sure to be at play in a "typical" shootout.

One might point out that the solution is better training, but in the real world the required amount is unlikely to happen.

Well, I guess I'm the one you're referring to :): the solution is better training. However, the principle of making every shot count does not require a whole lot of training time or expensive instruction courses to understand and follow. And as people who carry a firearm for self-protection responsibly, imo, we have an obligation to acquire at least a minimal amount of suitable training as to how, when and why a firearm should be employed in self-defense.
Stinger's statement is basic: "Clearly it's the person behind using the gun, not the gun itself." And if that person uses a semi-auto pistol to "spray and pray" as a tactic in a gunfight, let's not fault the implement he used wrongly. And I doubt very much that a revolver placed in the same individual's hand would make him any more choosy as to how many random rounds he expends.
 
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I know that no matter what the ammo capacity of my weapon, somewhere, there will be a predator with more ammo in his gun. I need to be ready to STOP him, not trade shots with him. I need to beat him using my brain. The sooner the first effective HIT occurs, the sooner the fight is over.

That being said, I sometimes conceal, off the clock, the same P229 pistol or pistols I carry on police patrol. Sometimes, I carry an SP101 snubby or two. I prefer to carry more than just one five-shot weapon, but do not feel anxious or naked if all I have is just a snubby. I am cognizant of the snubby's limitations, of course. Actually, one weapon I greatly favor on my own time is a 4" S&W Model 19 sixgun, six in capacity, but eminently shootable, the better to STOP a fight.
 
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NEVER felt under gunned with a .357 45acp or .44 mag revolver.

.32-20 hits about like a 9mm on steel. Bet it would do the job too.
 
Let's see. I've been in a couple life and death, close quarters combat situations.

No gun either time. Training and conditioning kept the guy from getting the gun pointed at me.

That said, let's turn the situation around a bit. I want to fire the FEWEST shots possible that will stop the attacker. I believe single action revolvers are best for this. It's not who fires the most shots, but who fires most accurately, and, who's round is the most effective on the target. I believe the deliberate action of cocking the hammer, aiming, and pulling the trigger is more important then the speed with which one can send lead down range.

Also that since hits are so rare, when you do hit, the amount of damage must be beyond the normal service cartridge range.
 
^ Why not a DA revolver? You can still cock it, manually. And in case you need to reload, you won't have to call a time out. :)
 
My 360PD has the worst trigger of all my guns, at about 10 pounds, after being tuned from 16 plus. I'd rather be shooting a SA, FA .475 Linebaugh, with a 3 pound trigger, and a 257 grain HP. at 1500 fps.

I think the missing link here is all those missed shots are due to terrible triggers.

Just a guess.
 
i did, so i set my .38spl on the table and bought a 9mm. but i still think revolvers are good enough for personal defense in most cases.

@prosser you'd use a single action revolver for personal defense?
 
Absolutely! But after reviewing a number of cases over the past and earlier decades, it becomes clear that under the stress of a shooting it is not unusual for someone with a hi-cap pistol to push their panic button and dump a whole magazine as fast as they can pull the trigger. What follows is a lot of shots fired with relatively few hits.

One might point out that the solution is better training, but in the real world the required amount is unlikely to happen.

In and of itself, revolvers may not be the answer, but in my experience those that carry them are less likely to depend on the volumn of available shots, and more likely to depend on making "meaningful hits," because they don't have any other option.
Make those shots count. You already know you have only 5 or 6 shots so you have to makem count.
Now if you are already in a very hostile environment like a war then one might prefer to take more training on an auto or one already knows they are going into gang terriotory multiple assailants like police the auto maybe a better option. Better be sure though you know which ammo it is going to eat 100% of the time.
Single officer out on the highway patroling by himself if no back-up available who stops a car with multiple assailants or performs a felony stop if he has to do by himself.
 
Lord Teapot:

Depending on the situation, I'm much rather have a SA then other platform, since SA's can be more concealable, lighter, and shoot far heavier calibers then
DA or autos.

That doesn't mean it's an ideal SD firearm, in all situations. In a crowded city, subway, where you are likely to be assaulted by multiple attackers, with people behind them likely to become collateral damage, you have a problem.

In a situation where you are unlikely to have anyone else around, and, the background is likely to be desert, etc. by all means.

If you are in Alaska, etc. where large animals are a threat, and, you are unlikely
to get off more then a couple shots anyway, an SA is an excellent idea.

Finally, if you've owned and shot a SA since 1980, and you are comfortable with it, and, you hit what you aim at, why not?

There are some people who kind of do away with the idea a SA is slow into action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9uGktUCrY&feature=related

When I watch Bob Munden...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H0dYEjR-jA&feature=related
 
I don't think, if you're in a situation where you need to defend yourself, and 5-7 shots won't do it, I doubt 9 or more will in the amount of time you have.
 
Whole-y Cr@p those were both fast!!!!

I'd be dead.

But they also looked like good blokes I'd buy a beer before getting into a gun fight with!

Foon
 
That said, let's turn the situation around a bit. I want to fire the FEWEST shots possible that will stop the attacker. I believe single action revolvers are best for this. It's not who fires the most shots, but who fires most accurately, and, who's round is the most effective on the target. I believe the deliberate action of cocking the hammer, aiming, and pulling the trigger is more important then the speed with which one can send lead down range.
This makes no sense whatsoever.

By this logic a single-shot, single-action Derringer would be the ultimate handgun for self defense.
 
You never know how many shots it will take to end a standoff, even if they are good hits. It has been shown that people under the influence of drugs and/or with adrenaline flowing are harder to stop. Because of this, I prefer to have more ammunition available should I need it. I will not use this as a reason to spray and pray, just as an added comfort. Also as mentioned, there is a chance of being confronted by multiple assailants....for discussion sake, lets say that in a situation with 2 assailants you were to get a 33% hit ratio (pretty good for a gunfight) that means one bullet into each BG with a six-shooter. And a 33% hit ratio means just that, a hit, not a vital hit. Chances are that the one hit could be a stopping shot, but I would like to have more rounds available if need be

After all, the reason we all carry is we would rather be safe than sorry, right?
 
Since when do SA's shoot heavier calibers than DA's? DA's are available in .454, .460, .500 etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like SA's. If that is what you, or someone else is most comfortable with, then by all means, carry it. I have carried a Colt SAA .45 Colt. Of course at the time, it was my only handgun, but I did not feel undergunned. If my state didn't limit me to three carry guns on my permit, I might just carry a SA at times.
 
Most of the big calibers, in DA guns are absurdly heavy or large.

SA guns can be made into much more concealable packages, with more power for weight.

I like the idea of a bullet that's already .475-.510" in diameter, and, then may expand to the size of a two bore rifle bullet.

This is an exit hole from a .500", LFN bullet, 440 grains at 950 FPS thats a 300 win mag cartridge for size comparision:
440grainHardcastat950fps500JRH300wincartridgeforcomparision.gif

Here is what a .45 Colt at 1150 fps will do, again LFN lead bullet:
45deer01045coltentry1150fpshardcast.gif

Here is a .500JRH DA:
SRH500.jpg

Here is a 35 oz custom .500JRH based on a Ruger:
HELLBOY3.jpg

It is very concealable, and shootable with 440 grain bullets at 950 fps.

Yes, if you can find one, a Ruger Alaskan is an excellent gun for CCW.
 
I carry a 2" .44sp in my rear pocket (jeans/ shirt out). It is a 5 shot loaded with 210 sthp. I am confidend in 5 shots in that as a civiy I am not likely to get into a fire fight. I recently bought a 3" Kimber in .45acp which could be my summer carry. In the winter the perps dress in heavy clothing, the .44 would be loaded with hard lead swc able to penetrate those fur coats.
Jim
 
I carry a 2" .44sp in my rear pocket (jeans/ shirt out). It is a 5 shot loaded with 210 sthp. I am confidend in 5 shots in that as a civiy I am not likely to get into a fire fight. I recently bought a 3" Kimber in .45acp which could be my summer carry. In the winter the perps dress in heavy clothing, the .44 would be loaded with hard lead swc able to penetrate those fur coats.
Jim
This is what Corbon Powerball ammo and Hornady Critical Defense ammo make great claims to penetrating thick clothing.
 
would you feel under-gunned if your 17 round glock jammed on the second shot? carry a bug! fwiw

murf
 
If you're not under-skilled, you aren't under-gunned. My combat course skill level with a revolver is light years ahead of my skill level with an auto-loader, probably because I have 20 years more experience with a revolver. If you can get your first and second shot where you want them in a hurry, you negate any advantage the other guy may have in magazine capacity.
 
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