The problem about donating to them right now is that money is going to Wayne’s and I’m sure other big wigs pockets, not going towards ranges or lawsuits. That money is wasted; but if everyone just stops donating and threatens to drop out. It would probably put them in line.
NRA: Chris Cox Resigns
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AlexanderA
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That's because they are not up on the latest developments.The NRA is killing itself. Not only is it not effective in promoting gun rights, but its very existence provides a useful focus for the antigunnners.
So, you just flat out said that Wayne is receiving 100% of the NRA's contributions, care to rethink that ?
That is the kind of hyperbole that un-serious people use to further their arguments. If that were anywhere close to true Wayne would actually be in jail.
AlexanderA
Member
Inertia. People remember the NRA of old, and are just continuing to give out of habit. And also, there's the Abused Spouse Syndrome. "He beats me because he loves me." Such people refuse to leave their abuser.
Wisco
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Everyone is free to do their own thing, obviously, but the NRA will not get another penny from me until Wayne is gone. That includes his alleged $1M a year contractually guaranteed “consulting” fee after he’s not the Exec VP.
The NRA needs to fix itself. Now. I’ll increase my membership TWO levels if the NRA gets rid of Wayne and stops the extreme partisan antics.
The NRA needs to fix itself. Now. I’ll increase my membership TWO levels if the NRA gets rid of Wayne and stops the extreme partisan antics.
I wouldn't bet a whole lot of money on that never changing.
In any event, to many of us it appears that the organization is being so spectacularly mis-managed as to be counterproductive. I know we've flogged it to death, but the NRA has done a lot to affirmatively harm the cause of gun rights with their far-right ranting about various non-gun issues. For crying out loud, they ran TV ads against free speech. They've made us all look like brownshirts, cretins who deserve to have scorn heaped on us.
AlexanderA
Member
He's not receiving 100% of the contributions, but he's controlling where they go. He has the unchecked ability to siphon as much as he wants (and can cleverly disguise) into his own pockets. There is no effective auditing mechanism.
AlexanderA
Member
That's right. The problem with the Natural Rights Theory is that it's not self-enforcing. The fact is that every human right has been struggled for against tyrannical rulers. Actually, the State of Nature is the law of the jungle, where the strong eat the weak.
How about some facts and figures instead of just tossing around fiction (these are from the 2018 mid-terms):
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000082
AP Investigation Finds NRA Gives Millions To Schools:
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/09/592196621/ap-investigation-finds-nra-gives-millions-to-schools
The NRA's power: By the numbers:
https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/354317-the-nras-power-by-the-numbers
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Sure, they can.
However, those rights have to be exercised effectively to mean something.
Just like in the natural world.
Just because we HAVE those rights does not necessarily mean we will always win whatever it is we fight for.
So, just as "God helps those who help themselves," you are saying that natural rights mean something as long as you win the political battles necessary to have positive law match those natural rights? No way to argue against that, but hard to see how that is anything but trivially true.
This is what you will be destroying:
https://explore.nra.org/interests/youth-interests
http://www.eddieeagle.com/#/
https://awards.nra.org/
https://youthambassadors.nra.org/
https://mqp.nra.org/
https://awards.nra.org/awards/brownellsnra-outstanding-achievement-youth-award/
https://yes.nra.org/
https://yhec.nra.org/
https://coach.nra.org/junior-shooting-camps/
https://explore.nra.org/interests/youth-interests
http://www.eddieeagle.com/#/
https://awards.nra.org/
https://youthambassadors.nra.org/
https://mqp.nra.org/
https://awards.nra.org/awards/brownellsnra-outstanding-achievement-youth-award/
https://yes.nra.org/
https://yhec.nra.org/
https://coach.nra.org/junior-shooting-camps/
And by withholding donations you are saying we will make you stop the good stuff until you listen to us. They have voting and other processes. In fact you can bring a class action lawsuit if you like. However, costing them money to fight a lawsuit or withholding donations will hurt the good stuff and have no real effect on the bad stuff. JMHO.
You should contact Larry Craig or Pete Brownell and see what they think, they likely have a lot more insight and influence than anyone else.
And, by your comment, I assume you realize that nothing illegal has been going on ?
mcb
Member
My wallet is the most powerful influence on the NRA I have. I can have no other influence on them other than each time they solicit money I say, "No!" and tell them exactly why I am saying no. Yes the NRA has done and is doing good things but the current unchecked corruption, cronyism and nepotism has destroyed my faith in them to use my money effectively to support pro-2A activities. My limited pro-2A budget will go further and do more good spent with groups other than the NRA. It will take a major change in leadership and actions to restore my faith in the NRA.
I fail to see the logic of saying that the NRA will be destroyed and the good programs eliminated. Having been in organizations for years, when there is a leadership crisis - as in a battle between two competing factions, suspect actions by both factions, the solution has been that for the good of the cause - the participants in the battle simply resign. An untainted crew takes over.
So - once again - if the current leadership was more interested in the cause and organization than themselves, they would see that they are ineffective and counterproductive now. They would resign for the good of the organization.
Why is not that principle or contingency not obvious? The moral onus is for this to happen. Rather than staying for yourself - do the right thing. If the organization gets destroyed it is because of venial self-interest as compared to evaluating what is good for the organization.
If you do think the principal players can be effective, you can be wedded to them. I don't see that. I've been in organizational fights where a new leadership cadre was needed, even as the old leader left with tantrums.
The NRA doesn't have an official vote for executive VP or a mechanism for a vote of no confidence. Perhaps the supporters of the current cadre should ask for such to be part of the by-laws. See what they say.
So - once again - if the current leadership was more interested in the cause and organization than themselves, they would see that they are ineffective and counterproductive now. They would resign for the good of the organization.
Why is not that principle or contingency not obvious? The moral onus is for this to happen. Rather than staying for yourself - do the right thing. If the organization gets destroyed it is because of venial self-interest as compared to evaluating what is good for the organization.
If you do think the principal players can be effective, you can be wedded to them. I don't see that. I've been in organizational fights where a new leadership cadre was needed, even as the old leader left with tantrums.
The NRA doesn't have an official vote for executive VP or a mechanism for a vote of no confidence. Perhaps the supporters of the current cadre should ask for such to be part of the by-laws. See what they say.
No. By my comment I mean that I have some passing familiarity with lawsuits in general and class actions in particular.
mcb
Member
I don't see Wayne LaPierre or any of the other executive staff on that ballot. With the things that have come to light recently and the actions that have taken place it is clear the above ballot was electing people that had little to no power over the organization.
And the employed executives exercise a lot of control over who gets on the ballot. The notion that the NRA is some sort of representative democracy is farcical. Relatively few organizations of its size and scope are. But that means that donations, or lack of same, are the primary buttons the rank-and-file can actually press if the leadership is determined to do things that are stupid.
Wisco
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How little can I donate that it actually costs them more to process the payment than the donation amount?
Just kidding. I am a jerk, but not like that. I would just like the opportunity to tell Wayne personally I think he’s all around gross and completely useless.
Just kidding. I am a jerk, but not like that. I would just like the opportunity to tell Wayne personally I think he’s all around gross and completely useless.
mcb
Member
Those are all the reason the makes the betrayal of trust by Wayne LaPierre and his cronies that much more bitter and disheartening. I desperately want my money to go to the next Heller vs DC case NOT to fund a single day shopping binge by WLP that expended more MEMBER DONATED money than my truck is worth. We are not talking about a small liberty taken by the leadership we are talking about years of corruption and mishandling of hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars of MEMBER DONATED money.
This is a betrayal has no doubt set the larger pro-2A movement back both monetarily and legally. This setback will be with us for years but continuing to give money to the NRA is not going to make it better and might make it worst.
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