Brush Gun Fact or Fiction?

Had a friend who only used 220 gr. round nose ammo in his .308 Win. 100. Swore up and down it would eat through brush to get deer. It did DRT them when he hit them, (most shots were 50 yards) but it would deflect in brush, as I proved the one time I shot that gun; Shot at a tin can in a dump behind heavy brush. I know were it not for the brush, I'd have nailed it. He of course thought my aim was off.

I had never heard the term, “Brush Gun”, until I started reading firearms websites around ten years ago. I’ve also never heard the expression spoken aloud. To me the expression is something of a misnomer unless “brush” has a different definition in different parts of the country. Over the years I’ve done some traveling in the East and Southeast. What is termed brush by many people is not what I think of as brush, to me it is woods. The picture below is what I consider brush. In the context of fast handling and shorter barrel I’m on board with the term Brush Gun. In the context of caliber diameter and bullet velocity I don’t believe there is such a thing as a Brush Gun.

I took a trip to northern Wisconsin (in the summer) about 20 years ago----those woods were so thick you couldn't even walk through them, let alone take a shot something you thought you saw----I don't know how they do it.

There is no such thing as a cartridge that is not affected by brush. Pure fiction. I saw this tested out years ago. In my own hunting with all kind of cartridges and slugs brush is always a problem. I have tried shooting through it with shotgun slugs and high power rifles. Never a good result. Best to try to find an opening with your scope. This year I shot 4 times at a deer in brush and only had one hit where I wanted .Two missed altogether and I am a very good shot. Normally I would not shoot through brush. I pick openings but this year I had trouble seeing. What I though were openings were not open.

Omaha-BeenGlockin said:

I took a trip to northern Wisconsin (in the summer) about 20 years ago----those woods were so thick you couldn't even walk through them, let alone take a shot something you thought you saw----I don't know how they do it.

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They wait till November!

The physics of brush guns are pretty simple:

• Heavy projectiles do better than light ones
  
• Wide, flat, sharp meplats are the best. But anything is better than a spire point.
• The amount of deflection on target is a function of both the angle of deflection and the distance from the barrier to the target. Brush close to the shooter is hard to overcome. Brush close to the target is easier.

In other words, it's physics and geometry. But I guarantee you it is absolutely possible to punch through a lot more than just "brush". I knew a clown who was convinced that no gun could overcome hitting brush. When confronted with ignorance like that, the right thing to do is not to try to educate it (usually impossible) but rather to mock it and bet against it. He lost over $500 convinced that my .50-110 shooting 510gr wide flat meplat monolitics couldn't punch through his alder bush. Of course it can punch tracking straight through 60" of oak rounds, but a twig is going to stop it. Right...

But I guarantee you it is absolutely possible to punch through a lot more than just "brush".

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I can’t disagree with that. I had a 1” steel plate leaned up against an 8 inch diameter oak tree about 20 yards in front of a natural red clay embankment.

The 750 grain AP bullet went through the 1” steel plate, the entire diameter of the Oak tree and more than 36” deep into the embankment. The 662gn API (center) did as well.





That said, the bullet construction is completely different than say a 35 grain v max that is already fragmented exiting the rear of a beer can filled with water.

jmorris said:

I can’t disagree with that. I had a 1” steel plate leaned up against an 8 inch diameter oak tree about 20 yards in front of a natural red clay embankment.

The 750 grain AP bullet went through the 1” steel plate, the entire diameter of the Oak tree and more than 36” deep into the embankment. The 662gn API (center) did as well.

View attachment 874057

View attachment 874056

That said, the bullet construction is completely different than say a 35 grain v max that is already fragmented exiting the rear of a beer can filled with water.

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I'm not sure if I'm more impressed with the penetration, or that curiosity drove you to get it back out .......

A favorite brush-bucking outfit here in Central Maine has been a Rem 742 in .308 or .30-06. They're a bit heavy and need some TLC to keep going, but my Son-In-Law's '06 keeps 150 or 180 grain Core-Locts around an inch at 100 yards. It's a deer killer, for sure and has never jammed, to my knowledge.

To me, a "brush gun" is a lightweight rifle without a long range scope. Regardless of caliber.

<*(((>< said:

, as someone who has no personal experience with 50BMG's, just have held, looked and researched them; this still impresses me greatly.

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Even more impressive when you compare it side by side with others.

On the left is the dent from a 300 grain JHP at 2100 fps (a 5 shot, unprotected shoulder, group leaves a bruised shoulder behind) vs a mild “ball” 50 BMG load.

The Lord has loaned me several firearms, so I don't own any, my favorite brush gun for hogs is a Ruger M77/44 and some 240-300 grain bullets for hogs in the mesquite country we have here in Central Texas.

My favorite brush gun is my Marlin 1895m chambered in .450 Marlin.
The main reason it’s my favorite is the short barrel and perfect balance, that said the thump of the .450 is nice, on both ends.

someguy2800 said:

They wait till November!

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And it's still pretty darn thick then.....

I agree with @FL-NC's (and others) definition of rifle characteristics.

I agree with those that say the bullet will deflect, because they and I have seen it happen. It's math.

I also agree with @Llama Bob , as I have felled at least seven birch saplings, in as straight a line as I could tell, in one shot from my Desert Eagle. One was three inches and looked exploded at the end, while some of the smaller one inch trees looked like they had been snipped, cut or had a bite taken out.

I agree that there is variability in what happens between here and there.

I guess I'm just being agreeable this morning...

What I noticed was the shooter bobbing his head back and forth stating the trouble he was having seeing the white target through the brush. Deer are not painted white and either are other hunters during deer season. I question the basic wisdom of shooting at something that I have trouble seeing never mind if the projectile will tumble - it must be me.

I don't really have a strong opinion on this either way but think it's silly to believe a bullet will cut through vegetation with no change in its trajectory. In my unscientific opinion, I do think that slow & heavy is deflected less than fast & light. I also think nose shape plays heavily into it. We see this in terminal ballistics as bullets pass through skin, bones and tissues. I do think it's best to avoid shooting through brush but it's certainly better the closer it is to the target.

Just last week, we found where my shot had cut a twig on its way to this little blackbuck but if there was any deflection, it was minimal because the bullet landed where I intended. It was a 70yd shot and the cut twig was about 20yds from the critter.

Short barrelled, light, large caliber repeating rifle with low magnification optic or open sights of some sort.

Short barrel for better woods (and brush) handling.

Light so you can carry it at least in a somewhat ready position.

Large caliber to facilitate larger wounds so the animal does not make it too far into the already mentioned brush.

Repeater with quicker follow up shot capability for the same reason.

Low power optic or open sights for faster target acquisition in the thick stuff your hunting in. Shots will always be close.

This also fits my definition of a “woods rifle”.

<*(((>< said:

I don’t think his shots through the vegetation were to simulate an actual shot on game but to ensure with greater likelihood that the bullet would strike something on the intended target.

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For some reason, that point was lost on a lot of people.

One thing I do know, you can cut down a Christmas tree in the woods with a shotgun.

Deer hunters shoot other hunters like clockwork every deer season. Anyone that has hunted deer knows that you simply cannot mistake a human for a deer or vise-versa unless your vision is obstructed. The subject in any context of “brush shooting” just seems strange to me - no point was lost.

Steve S. said:

Deer hunters shoot other hunters like clockwork every deer season. Anyone that has hunted deer knows that you simply cannot mistake a human for a deer or vise-versa unless your vision is obstructed. The subject in any context of “brush shooting” just seems strange to me - no point was lost.

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The fact that the video depicts a TEST, not representative of a real life situation, does seem to be lost. Anyone who fires a shot at a living creature without knowing exactly what it is needs to be horsewhipped. The video does not depict or condone this.

It seems like any bullet will deflect if there is a lot of vegetation between the hunter and the target.

however, in a brush gun, I’d want a round that will provide enough penetration to reach the vitals of the animal from any angle, leaves external wounds large enough to provide an obvious blood trail, and possibly powerful enough to punch through brush and debris immediately against the animal and still create a quickly fatal wound.

All of the above in a sleek package that won’t snag on brambles is nice too.