Just how dirty does an AR get after 200 rds, pics.

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SHvar

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My wife and I went to the range yesterday, we decided to take advantage of the nice weather, and for her to get some more practice with her S&W sigma (I dont particularly like the thing).
200 rds of brown bear fired yesterday.
This is my gas piston rifle after shooting it, BEFORE CLEANING IT, AND ONE EXAMPLE AFTER CLEANING IT.
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The one picture that I took after cleaning (from the messiest parts).
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Hmmm, I've run a few rounds of Wolf in my day (or a few thousand) and I'd say the interior of the receiver looks kinda dry and dirty.

I generally run firearms with more lube so the Wolf filth I'm familiar with is always 'wetter' on most parts of the rifle. I'd rather have carbon and oil as a lube than just carbon. BSW
 
Really the face of the bolt was dirty, the chamber had some laquer on it, and the dirtiest parts were the piston, and about an inch of the op rod. Unfortunately when I took the dirty picture on those 2 parts I didnt use the better lit up area of my garage, like the clean photo.
The 9mm handgun had about 100 rds through it, and it was almost as dirty, the gas piston rifle had 200 rds of brown bear through it. Ive compared PMC to brown bear and the PMC produces more carbon.
The bolt carrier was still wet, with a bit of crud at the top that ran down from the chamber (from the oil after firing it, I wet the moving parts down pretty good, but not where it drips).
Compare these parts to a DI rifle with the same amount of lube (done once) and 200 rds fired through it. There was a guy standing there with his S&W M&P15, after we fired a few mags I handed him my bolt carrier, he was shocked how cold, clean, and wet it was.
The recoil difference is definitely noticeable with this GP rifle over a DI model, my wife comments about her shoulder getting beat up when she shoots it. I notice it, but Im used to the difference. Also the rifle is a bit louder than DI, not so noticeable now as it was the first several times we shot it.
When fired side by side with that S&W it sounds overall a bit different, hard to explain it, sounds good. Its more fun to fire rapid over the DI model, again hard to explain, you would have to feel it to see what I mean, maybe the design of bolt carrier, and the action of the piston assembly (also that Sprinco spring made a noticeable difference when i installed it).
 
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Dang. No insult intended, but that was a freshly cleaned weapon before you went to the range, right?
 
Well, you shot cheap ammo through it. Not to say that it looks excessive or anything. I've seen a lot worse that keep running fine. Even Zak's rifle looks OK after a lot more ammo.

How was that rifle running toward the end of 2,000, Zak?
 
"Dang. No insult intended, but that was a freshly cleaned weapon before you went to the range, right?"

The first 4 pictures are after firing it, the last 1 was after cleaning some parts.
I didnt post any comparison pictures of it after cleaning all of it.
Read the post, just in case, I clarified it better.
I saw a test where DPMS fired an aniversary edition rifle with 10,000 rds, they had a few hiccups toward the end but just added more and more oil, it fired them all.
Zak, what kind of bolt carrier is that, looks like its got a different shape and coating.
 
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Fremmer, like I said in the original post, it ran great through the class.

SHvar, the pictured BC is a JP Enterprises stainless carrier, slightly lighter than a stock BC. I don't remember why I was using it in that gun at the time-- that upper usually has the stock RRA BCG in it.

-z
 
Is that piston gun a POF or Bushmaster? I'd bet Bushmaster from the bolt but the gas system is virtually identical.

I have had similar experience with POF ARs. The BCG and inside the receiver group stay relatively cool and clean. The piston, gas plug body and head of the op-rod are where the dirt is. POF rifles have "allegedly" been run for over 20,000 rounds without lube. I don't know about that, I lube mine, it still works great;)

You would be surprised how many rounds you can get through a DI AR without cleaning. The secret is to keep it lubed! I think Pat Rogers (or someone like that) has an AR that's gone over 30,000 rounds without cleaning. He just kept it lubed and it ran fine.
 
You would be surprised how many rounds you can get through a DI AR without cleaning. The secret is to keep it lubed! I think Pat Rogers (or someone like that) has an AR that's gone over 30,000 rounds without cleaning. He just kept it lubed and it ran fine.

I believe that's Pat that's keeping at least one gun with a high round count like that.

He also wrote a nice article called "Keeping It Running", which you can find through google easily. Something every AR user/owner should read.
 
I am glad to hear the notorious Zak Smith uses a Rock River AR, this boosts my confidence in my recent order for a RRA LAR-6.8 A4 Mid-Length. I've never been a big fan of the DI gas system, but as price was a factor and in my insane desire to own a rifle in 6.8spc, I just couldn't see that the GP guns were worth the significant extra cost.
I usually always clean my guns after a range session, and don't usually shoot over 200 rounds, so I don't foresee dirt build-up being a concern for me.
 
FWIW, I clean my 3-Gun match rifles less often than once a year. I'll wipe off the bolt carrier group (assembled) once or twice a year. I follow more or less the same regiment on my suppressed SBR, except has a higher average level of fouling and is usually dry.
 
Thats a Bushmaster, aside from coatings, and a few other parts the 2 are almost identical. The design was licensed to BM from POF. The coatings are found inside the piston assembly that POF uses.
 
I've put 3,000 rounds through a Colt AR in two days. Had one misfeed due to a old faulty cheap STANAG mag. Other than that, 2999 rounds no problem. I took the bolt carrier out and put a light coat of CLP all over it before putting it back in and starting firing. At the end of the first day I gave it a quick wipe down and re-oiled in the same manner.

I had to spend a couple hours scrubbing out the bolt carrier, bolt, and various nooks and crannies in the chamber with a dental pick the 3rd day. That's the annoying thing about DI, for me anyways. It runs fine when you clean and oil, but you really have to scrub some hard to get to spots afterwards.

The wife has a M4gery in 22LR (dedicated 22LR CMMG upper) that has to be cleaned almost spotlessly between range sessions and oiled just right to run with any reliability. It's a fun, cheap rifle and great for training value, but definitely the most high maintenance thing I've ever used.

The two piston rifles we own (M1A and Sig 556) are mostly just cleaning intensive on the gas plug and the end of the gas piston. Personally, I love how the Sig has a one piece bolt and a bolt carrier with not too many nooks and crannies. The star chamber is a bit easier to access for cleaning, for me anyways. I don't make enough money to afford 3,000 rounds to put through that rifle for testing purposes, but I'm sure someone has and wrote a review.

In my limited experience with GP vs DI, so far I vastly prefer GP for cleaning purposes.

To get back more on topic, that does look kinda dirty for 200 rounds. Maybe just the ammo? The wife's 22LR M4gery tends to run dirty, as I mentioned. Pretty much every ammo I've tried ran dirty, even Federal and Winchester (the two brands it seems to like best).
 
I noticed my friends AR gets pretty dirt after a range trip. I can usualy wipe down the bolt and carrier on my Sig, grease it and have a couple of beers before he is done with it and cracks one.
 
I had to spend a couple hours scrubbing out the bolt carrier, bolt, and various nooks and crannies in the chamber with a dental pick the 3rd day. That's the annoying thing about DI, for me anyways. It runs fine when you clean and oil, but you really have to scrub some hard to get to spots afterwards.

I noticed my friends AR gets pretty dirt after a range trip. I can usualy wipe down the bolt and carrier on my Sig, grease it and have a couple of beers before he is done with it and cracks one.

Never taken me longer to clean my AR than other guns.

If I want deep cleaning, I drop the small parts into some solvent and wet down everything else overnight. That cuts through some crud pretty good. I don't use dental picks or whatnot, either. Just a standard chamber brush in addition to the bore brush and patch loop.
 
I don't pick around either... keep it oily in operation, then to clean, spray bore with CLP & let soak, hose gunk out of action and action parts with Gun Scrubber, use solvent on a nylon brush for anything left, hose again with gun scrubber, clean bore, reoil action with aerosol can of CLP. Process can be done very fast.
 
Didn't fire any but this after about 4 hours of Convoy ops..... it did fire about 600 rounds or so later that afternoon and all I did was load it and shoot...

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I noticed my friends AR gets pretty dirt after a range trip. I can usualy wipe down the bolt and carrier on my Sig, grease it and have a couple of beers before he is done with it and cracks one.

I can clean my DI Ar's in less time than my G-3, AK/PSL or Mini. The only part of the AR that actually requires scrubbing is the inside of the BCG. Everything else gets a once-over with the toothbrush and hoppes, then blasted out with brake clean.

You wanna talk about a gun that craps where it eats, that's the HK roller delayed system. Yuck!

Gas piston guns blow carbon all over the inside of the handguards, covering that portion of the barrel. I can't stand the black freckles I get from scrubbing the inside of the gas tube, especially on AK actions.

Honestly, the only rifles I find faster to clean are bolt/lever/pump actions, where it's just a barrel brush and Q-tip to get brass off the bolt face. Of the semi-autos, I find the AR fastest and easiest.

I'm glad the GP systems in the AR's are working out for those of you who bought them, but I'm kinda tired of hearing about how inferior DI is and the bombardment of this "evidence". I don't know if that was the OP's intent, but it kinda seems that way.
 
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