1851 navy 36 caliber for deer and hogs will it be enough?

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Noz said:
Military weapons are designed to wound, not kill. A wounded soldier requires at least 2 others to care for him when they could be fighting. An 1851 is kinda like cholera. It will probably kill you but it may take a week.
To answer the question, No it is not enough gun for any medium sized game animal.
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not sure about this but i was reading somewhere that the fact was the 36c navy with 25grs of 3f goex is about the same power level of a 380acp so is that true?
 
midland man said:
so I can understand roundball not having as much energy but is maybe using a conical or some kind of bullet that's heavier than the roundball will that with a bullet make it more to the 380acp?
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I don't know what weight conical bullets are available or what velocity you would get with them.
IMO round balls are fine for the small game and varmints the 36 is appropriate for.
 
Noz said:
Military weapons are designed to wound, not kill. A wounded soldier requires at least 2 others to care for him when they could be fighting. An 1851 is kinda like cholera. It will probably kill you but it may take a week.
To answer the question, No it is not enough gun for any medium sized game animal.
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I've heard this theory passed around the 'net but I've never seen it proved. I doubt any army in the 19th century ever believed that....they likely intended to kill an enemy combatant, and in any case many wounded died anyway due to the quality of medical care extant at the time.

In modern times I think different equations apply. The modern 5.56mm. cartridge was not developed to wound, it was a compromise, being effective enough against humans at a distance most combatants usually did not exceed, while allowing individual soldiers to carry larger ammo supplies on their persons.
 
No self-respecting old timer with any sense (and they had plenty) would venture out on the baddies with only a pistol. Long-arms fueled and ensured the westward expansion, not handguns. No matter how useful a six gun can be, and of course it is, it was still the rifle and a good hefty knife which constituted the essential pieces of gear.
 
Eyrie G. Dogg said:
No self-respecting old timer with any sense (and they had plenty) would venture out on the baddies with only a pistol. Long-arms fueled and ensured the westward expansion, not handguns. No matter how useful a six gun can be, and of course it is, it was still the rifle and a good hefty knife which constituted the essential pieces of gear.
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Funny how the Texas Rangers’ lore isn’t about a long gun once they had revolvers. And they were in some of the badest lands one might venture into. Initially those were the woeful .36 cal Pattersons...

And eventually into the Mexican-American War, again notably with handguns, but of the .44 cal variety wanting something capable of men or their horses at a bit of range
 
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For a running fight with mounted Comanche and Kiowa I can’t imagine having better weapons than a few five or six shot revolvers. The Rangers had a real edge, once they got some of those. They were operating offensively as light cavalry. Not everyone did that and when Rangers were out on a scout they had some long guns too. They would want some meat and might encounter hostiles who owned long guns of their own. Sometimes a revolver is ideal and sometimes it’s near to useless. Best to have both types of weapons to cover likely (or even remote) contingencies. The Rangers knew all this, better than anyone.
 
midland man said:
so guys as most of you know I just got in yesterday a new traditions/pietta 1851 navy colt 36 caliber revolver and so would this have enough power to take deer or wild hogs if needed?? also i'm sure it would be fine for small game like rabbits and squirrels! thanks! :)
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During the War of Northern Aggression, a Yankee officer was escorting some Confederate prisoners to the rear when he came upon some fellas trying to harvest some wild hogs. He shot them dead with his last rounds from his '61 Navy.

The problem with many folks perception of the prowess of these sixguns is that they shoot them lightly loaded. You want to see what a '61 Navy was really like in 1864? Load it up with a round ball (Confederate usually) or Yankee conical and 4F powder and let it rip!
 
Midland man, 36 cal rifles are a hoot as well. I shot mine at targets for years with a small club in southern Arizona. Never hunted with it till last year. I nailed a Jackrabbit at around 40 yards and it removed a coffee cup sized chunk of neck and shoulder. I was both surprised and impressed with the damage that little pill caused. Load is 45 grains of 3f with a .018 canvas duck patch. I worked up that load on a bench and that's what the rifle likes.
 
midland man said:
not sure about this but i was reading somewhere that the fact was the 36c navy with 25grs of 3f goex is about the same power level of a 380acp so is that true?
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http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

With standard Goex and a ball even 30 grns is rather lacking and not comparable to a .380 ACP.

A fellow who also designs his own percussion bullets has a 100 grn bullet driven by 20 grns of 3F Olde E or T7 which compares favorably to the .380 ACP, and that can be loaded in the smaller .36 cal guns such as a Spiller & Burr or Colt Police/Pocket Navy. As you can see a ball pushed by Pyrodex P can achieve .38 Spl performance, though I’ve seen Pyrodex performance all over the place. At times it’s weak like standard Goex and at other times powerful like Swiss, which is one reason I wouldn’t care to use it.
 
I think the hottest BP/substitute I have read about is Triple 7. Gil Sengal loaded some in a 38 Special case and was very impressed with the power and added recoil he got. I have never tried it myself.
 
Mr. Ratshooter - I use T7 in 3f and it’s hot, very energetic. It’s my favorite substitute. Burns pretty clean with lots of fire and smoke and seems consistent from shot to shot. Based on chronograph results recently referenced here it’s just a little less energetic than Swiss but only by a little. For my money Swiss (3f in my case) is the best and most energetic black - really good stuff but I can’t find it around my area. Retailers in my general area carry T7 and I’m highly pleased with it.

As an aside - I’ve recently been using a good amount of Black MZ. It’s not as energetic as many other subs but it’s the cleanest burning stuff I’ve ever used and for $9.98 a pound it is worth having some around. I use it especially in paper home rolled carts because Alliant says you can skip the lube.

I would agree that Triple 7 is the most energetic substitute.
 
Going deer hunting with a .36 pistol would be like pounding nails with a screwdriver. If you try it though, just remember to bring your accordian and maybe a bakup Frenchman.

As for hogs - that could be an attempted suicide or worse.
 
midland man said:
so I can understand roundball not having as much energy but is maybe using a conical or some kind of bullet that's heavier than the roundball will that with a bullet make it more to the 380acp?
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When we load our Pietta New Model Belt revolver with 24 grains of Olde Eynsford under a round ball, the round goes supersonic. The damage a .36 round ball or conical ball bullet does is all out of proportion to its paper ballistics. It is far more powerful than a .380 and more like a hot .38 Special or 9mm. We have had a lot of fun with that sixgun shooting Kaido conicals with 20 grains of 4F powder but never got the chance to chrony that load.
 
Eyrie G. Dogg said:
Col. Sam intended an 1851 to be used for shooting things that it would be effective upon. That has always seemed fairly obvious to most people. Did you not know that?
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As you say, it’s original intended use was killing 100-250 pound thin skinned animals from handshake to 50 yards or so ranges. Originally designed for law enforcement, military and civilian casualties service. Most people quickly realized that they needed a bit more power and turned to the .44 caliber for those purposes.

They’re fine for small game, up to javelina and wild turkey in size. I’m sure they have been used to kill deer and hogs but my first choice would be something bigger.
 
John Joseph said:
Old time cowboys who packed cap and ball revolvers also carried long knives, just in case.
Not for rabbits, but maybe critters that fight back.
Just sayin'

Check out Grand Duke Alexis' famous Royal Buffalo Hunt to see what critters he brought down using black powder revolvers
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Modern folks who go armed do this as well... insurance is a good thing.
 
well I took mine back out today and went up to 30grs 3r goex and 1/8th inch lubed wad and roundball in the 36 caliber pistol and wow!! all I can say is this thing just barley had enough room to compress the ball just below the chamber mouth and once I fired it, it was very loud and I can feel the concussion in my face this gun really woke up! plus the accuracy even got better, so I can't see why this couldn't take on hogs and deer with this load! now with that said with 25grs 3f goex same wad It's much less noise and would seem to make for a great squirrel, rabbit load!
 
midland mquestion said:
well I took mine back out today and went up to 30grs 3r goex and 1/8th inch lubed wad and roundball in the 36 caliber pistol and wow!! all I can say is this thing just barley had enough room to compress the ball just below the chamber mouth and once I fired it, it was very loud and I can feel the concussion in my face this gun really woke up! plus the accuracy even got better, so I can't see why this couldn't take on hogs and deer with this load! now with that said with 25grs 3f goex same wad It's much less noise and would seem to make for a great squirrel, rabbit load!
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Ok, now I have a question. I have one in .36, very similar to yours. With the steel frame, will fully loading the cylinder like that damage them in any way? Keep in mind I will be using pyrodex p, thats all I have.
 
maint1517 said:
Ok, now I have a question. I have one in .36, very similar to yours. With the steel frame, will fully loading the cylinder like that damage them in any way? Keep in mind I will be using pyrodex p, thats all I have.
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not sure how pyrodex p will compress if it's the same as goex as far as room is concerned but you can't overload the cylinders on these pistols as there's not enough chamber to worry about an over charge!
 
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