1851 navy 36 caliber for deer and hogs will it be enough?

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

Twenty-five grains of Swiss 3f under a .380 or a 110 grain conical will spread a jackrabbit over three counties and a center shot will kill a man in his tracks. Never killed anybody with a .36 but it sure put dirt in ol’ Tutt’s ears.

I don’t go for hyper-loads in any of my pistols. If a Navy seems light duty for any particular subject (and they can be) then just pull a .44 and get it done. I want my guns to last a lifetime and be in good shape for my sons to shoot after I’m done.

Grter - if patience and forbearance was always easy they wouldn't be virtues. Just a thought.

 

[swathdiver]

I don't think cramming the cylinder of a .36 caliber Italian import open top cap and ball revolver FULL of 4f that is ffffg flintlock priming powder and topping it off with a round ball is a good idea.

4f (ffffg) is a super fine powder meant for priming flintlocks.

You're under informed sir. 4F is the equivalent of 1850s-1860s Hazard's Pistol Powder. The very powder that the originals were supplied with in loose form and with the paper cartridges. Folks laugh at the poor performance of .31 cap and ball revolvers as they are loading them with coarse 3F powder and in such small quantities makes little power. Load these modern guns with their improved metallurgy up with 4F as our ancestors did and experience lethality that they did. My little Remington pocket model only holds 9 grains under a round ball. Shooting it with 3F, the rounds bounce off the target stands and come back at us. That ended with the use of 9 grains of 4F powder.

The rule of thumb for using 4F with conicals is 1 grain of powder per 1/10 of projectile weight. So for example, a 180 grain conical should be propelled by 18 grains of powder. For the .31 and .36 they knock over steel targets easily compared with 3F and recoil is not objectionable. The .44s are another story, my shoulder likes the softer recoil of 3F!

I like using the slower burning 1F, 1.5F and 2F powders in my rifles and smoothbores too.

Do you know the story of how Bill Ruger proof tested the Ruger Old Army?

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

highly doubtful except in an emergency and probably not legal either
Hogs are hard to put down with big guns
BP I wouldn't use anything less than a 50 Cal rifle and a multi shot backup gun at least a 44 in BP

 

[maint1517]

Im not sure about other states. But in South Carolina, there are no weapon restrictions for hogs other than you must use appropiate weapon for season that is open. Meaning, deer and bear season, centerfire rifle or handgun .38 caliber or larger. Or shotgun with buckshot or slug. However, in the off seasons you must use rimfire or handgun smaller than .38 caliber. I have taken quite a few hogs with a .22 magnum rifle. But that requires a head shot.
I would like to add, when I took these I was hunting from a tree stand. So I had plenty of time to make an accurate shot.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

Swathdiver and generally - I’m intrigued over the notion that Col. Hazard’s Civil War era loose and cartridge powder was 4f. One way or the other it’s a significant fact.

Links or references as to CW powder granulations would be of interest. Up until your Hazard 4f reference I’d just figered it was rock lock pan primer and that was it, mostly. Midland man seems to be making good use of it in pistols lately.

Anyway, comment and info on that would be very useful. I'd like to know more about that.

 

[rodwha]

Swathdiver and generally - I’m intrigued over the notion that Col. Hazard’s Civil War era loose and cartridge powder was 4f. One way or the other it’s a significant fact.

Links or references as to CW powder granulations would be of interest. Up until your Hazard 4f reference I’d just figered it was rock lock pan primer and that was it, mostly. Midland man seems to be making good use of it in pistols lately.

Anyway, comment and info on that would be very useful. I'd like to know more about that.

Do you have a Yahoo account? There is the information posted in the Percussion Revolver group under Files. If not I can email it to you as he gave permission to save and share it.

Also you may be interested in talking with Curator as he has disassembled a lot of black powder metallic cartridges and found 4F and finer in large calibers.

 

[maint1517]

Do you know the story of how Bill Ruger proof tested the Ruger Old Army?

I believe he test fired it with a round ball seated on a chamber full of smokeless powder.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

so guys as most of you know I just got in yesterday a new traditions/pietta 1851 navy colt 36 caliber revolver and so would this have enough power to take deer or wild hogs if needed??

If needed ??
Sure, you could successfully harvest a deer if you were close enough, Say at the most 25 yards, with a heavy load with that .375 ball, and if you were in a survival situation.

Here's a better question (imho)..., can you legally harvest deer with a muzzle loader that is .36 caliber?

Most states set the muzzle loader bottom limit for large game at .45, and some such as my home state of Maryland set the bottom limit at .40 with a minimum load of 40 grains of powder, IF you're using a muzzle loading handgun. If you were using a .40 caliber rifle it would be 60 grains. (Some states don't allow the use of a muzzle loading handgun for deer.)

So does Oklahoma where you're located allow you to use anything in a muzzle loader in.36 caliber to hunt deer? Otherwise this is an academic discussion, right?

LD

 

[Steel Hayes]

Here's a better question (imho)..., can you legally harvest deer with a muzzle loader that is .36 caliber?

In Michigan, as the law changed in 2016, there is no minimum caliber for deer hunting during muzzleloading season.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Nothing like getting the real story straight from the horses mouth! Thanks Rodwha! I have an old ASM Walker, if I were to listen to this grter fellow I would believe I was about to lose a gun and a hand.

 

[rodwha]

I believe he test fired it with a round ball seated on a chamber full of smokeless powder.

Actually it was loaded with a 250-255 grn bullet on top of Bullseye or Trail Boss.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

One thing about the real fine grain stuff that I have had a problem with is it packs in behind the cut off gate in my powder flask. It tends to jam partly open so powder flows freely when the thumb lever is released. Kinda makes a mess of things.

 

[rodwha]

Nothing like getting the real story straight from the horses mouth! Thanks Rodwha! I have an old ASM Walker, if I were to listen to this grter fellow I would believe I was about to lose a gun and a hand.

To be fair he was the third owner as well. Not that I assume it was mistreated in any way, but it was brought up by others when this fellow initially said he loaded it with 30 grns of Pyrodex P, as well as people figuring he loaded smokeless.

I’m rather skeptical of buying a BP used gun since they are easy to damage unless I know who owned it. I’d prefer to spend just a little more and get it new.

 

[drobs]

To be fair he was the third owner as well. Not that I assume it was mistreated in any way, but it was brought up by others when this fellow initially said he loaded it with 30 grns of Pyrodex P, as well as people figuring he loaded smokeless.

I’m rather skeptical of buying a BP used gun since they are easy to damage unless I know who owned it. I’d prefer to spend just a little more and get it new.

On used guns...
At least in the case of commonly available Pietta revolvers, replacement cylinders are inexpensive.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

In Michigan, as the law changed in 2016, there is no minimum caliber for deer hunting during muzzleloading season.

Well there's one state where it would be OK.

LD

 

[rodwha]

No cap n ball guns as a primary during muzzleloader season in TX, but is during modern season.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Arizona says 45 cal minimum, single barrel, loads from muzzle. So no doubles , or revolvers during muzzleloader season. Any other time you can use what you want, no rimfires for big game... duh!. At least that's how I remember the rules.

 

[CraigC]

No. If the .357 is considered marginal by folks who have hunted with handguns all their lives, where does that leave a .36cal roundball at under 1000fps???

 

[dickydalton]

No. If the .357 is considered marginal by folks who have hunted with handguns all their lives, where does that leave a .36cal roundball at under 1000fps???

What Craig said!

 

[robhof]

okay so let me ask this how about deer squirrels rabbits or varmits out of that list what will that work on?

Will work on all, but best for small game; squirrel, rabbit, fox, even coyote at relatively close range and well placed shot, I've used mine to finish a wounded or road injured deer or 2 and works fine at point blank range and head shot, they just don't have enough energy to make a humane kill at any distance or body shot of deer.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Again the revolver is sold short, I am not afraid to make that 70 to 100 yard shot. My brother dropped a mule deer at about 75 yards with a 357. As other folks know and are most likely tired of reading it, I regularly take Jackrabbits out to and over 100 yards. Go to a pistol silhouette shoot, it will open your eyes.

 

[rodwha]

No. If the .357 is considered marginal by folks who have hunted with handguns all their lives, where does that leave a .36cal roundball at under 1000fps???

I’ve actually seen quite the opposite as far as the .357 being quite effective. Myself, I prefer a bigger bullet and favor the .44 or .45 for hunting. Even a 10mm or .41... But that’s me.

 

[maint1517]

I can only speak for myself. But the .357 has proven effective more than once on black bear for me.

 

[CraigC]

I’ve actually seen quite the opposite as far as the .357 being quite effective. Myself, I prefer a bigger bullet and favor the .44 or .45 for hunting. Even a 10mm or .41... But that’s me.

I didn't say it wasn't effective. I said it was marginal. As in, the minimum acceptable cartridge for the job. As in, no lesser cartridges need apply. It is effective, as long as everything goes perfectly and you avoid any major bones. Bones the big bores are easily able to plow through. We're talking about comparing a 158-173gr bullet at 1400fps to an 80gr swaged round ball at 1000fps or less. A TKO of 4 versus 12.

You guys who have never done it but are so sure it will work are welcome to try but you won't get an endorsement from anyone who's ever hunted with handguns.

 

[midland man]

i'm thinking as I just proved 4f goex at 30grs and 1/8th inch lubed wad and .375 round ball will not blow up the cylinders on both my 51' colts so this is a max charge I figured it would have enough power within 25yrds??