OP
OP
1861
Member
Thanks J-Bar 
I would choose Virginia, but some place where they won't tear down confederate monuments.
I would choose Virginia, but some place where they won't tear down confederate monuments.
1851 Navy & beginner
- Thread starter 1861
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Sistema1927
Member
The Confederacy occupied Albuquerque early in the war, and there were Civil War battles here in New Mexico including the decisive battle at Glorieta Pass.Thanks J-Bar
I would choose Virginia, but some place where they won't tear down confederate monuments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico_Territory_in_the_American_Civil_War
Come to live here and you will have lots and lots of places to shoot your BP revolver(s), the opportunity to shoot modern weapons, legal open carry, and concealed carry with an easy to obtain license (but only after you become a US citizen).
http://www.dps.state.nm.us/index.php/nm-concealed-carry/concealedcarry-faqs/
That's a bummer.
So now that you have permission by the Police, are you allowed to buy a modern firearm - a handgun?
What modern firearms (other than shotguns for trap & skeet) are used at the local range?
Are sound suppressors used? Some European countries require them for noise.
So now that you have permission by the Police, are you allowed to buy a modern firearm - a handgun?
What modern firearms (other than shotguns for trap & skeet) are used at the local range?
Are sound suppressors used? Some European countries require them for noise.
Ephraim Kibbey
Member
Ohio is pretty gun friendly too but emigrating may be a bit drastic in this case!!!
My condolences for your situation but keep trying to get them to let you enjoy your revolver.
I would think there would be slow times when the range did not have many people shooting.
My point about "clubs" was just that if you are close enough to go into the "wilderness" to shoot, there may be others similarly inclined who have found a secluded spot that they frequent.
You mention hunters, maybe talking to them might open some new possibilities.
Is hunting legal with black powder where you are?
Lots of hunters here go home without anything for the pot (they just don't brag about it.)
If you are out hunting with your revolver and fire it, who's to say you were not aiming at your dinner and missed!
Trees have been pretty good targets historically.
My condolences for your situation but keep trying to get them to let you enjoy your revolver.
I would think there would be slow times when the range did not have many people shooting.
My point about "clubs" was just that if you are close enough to go into the "wilderness" to shoot, there may be others similarly inclined who have found a secluded spot that they frequent.
You mention hunters, maybe talking to them might open some new possibilities.
Is hunting legal with black powder where you are?
Lots of hunters here go home without anything for the pot (they just don't brag about it.)
If you are out hunting with your revolver and fire it, who's to say you were not aiming at your dinner and missed!
Trees have been pretty good targets historically.
I'm guessing it wasn't the noise of the black powder guns that annoyed others. It was probably the smoke and those complaining were other shooters on the range. Bring a fan along to blow the smoke out.
See if they will let you shoot on a slow day. I think there is a decibel meter app available for smart phones. If noise is the issue it would easy to prove that modern cartridges (rifle in particular) are louder than black powder revolvers.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/decibel-x-db-dba-noise-meter/id448155923?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/niosh-sound-level-meter/id1096545820?mt=8
On the note of not having a vehicle - vehicles open up the world for you.
Where do the guys at the gun shop that sold you the black powder shoot at?
See if they will let you shoot on a slow day. I think there is a decibel meter app available for smart phones. If noise is the issue it would easy to prove that modern cartridges (rifle in particular) are louder than black powder revolvers.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/decibel-x-db-dba-noise-meter/id448155923?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/niosh-sound-level-meter/id1096545820?mt=8
On the note of not having a vehicle - vehicles open up the world for you.
Where do the guys at the gun shop that sold you the black powder shoot at?
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OP
OP
1861
Member
Muzzleloaders are category C, in my country and in almost any other country (only in France that's category D, together with knives). C requires only REGISTRATION with the police, so I didn't get any permit, just a paper stating that I have registered a category C weapon. Modern firearms are category B - to own a modern handgun, I first have to obtain a permission, and I won't get a permission if I'm not a registered hunter, a member of police or army force, or some other privately owned security company, or if I'm some influential politician or lawyer or wealthy businessman, son of a chief of the police or something like that. So, I can't have modern handgun and I don't care for one - I only want Schofield by Uberti, but I can't have Schofield because it uses bullets and thus falls into category B. I plan to get a converter cylinder from the USA for my Colt, which will be illegal for me to import and to own, but I couldn't care less.
Like I said - we have two ranges. One is used only for shooting clay pigeons with rifles/shotguns designed for that, so I have no business there. On the other range they use modern handguns: automatic pistols and revolvers. And that's it. As far as I know, sound suppressors are illegal.
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OP
OP
1861
Member
I don't know is hunting with black powder legal (probably is) - but I'm 100% sure that no hunter here uses black powder. Hunters' shops don't sell black powder and caps at all. That one shop ordered 1 box of powder and 2 boxes of caps especially for me.
The worst thing for me would be to say that I went hunting with my revolver. Because I'm not a registered hunter. I would have to be a real hunter, and to own a hunting rifle, and to be a member of some hunters' society, and to own a permission for category B. Otherwise I would be accused of poaching.
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OP
OP
1861
Member
I already suggested that I would be willing to use the range when others won't be there. It seems that it's rarely used anyway. I have a vintage Nokia phone and it has a decibel meter. I'm not going down without a fight.
J-Bar
Member
Shooting a percussion revolver is FUN. Offer the range owners the chance to shoot your gun and see how much fun it is for themselves. I can’t imagine anyone turning down the opportunity. You might get them hooked on shooting blackpowder guns and start a whole new movement in your country!
whughett
Member
Well to be right up front, I don't know. I am not a proponent of reduced loads. My 44's its 30.3 grains, my 36's its 20.7 grains. For the brass frame revolvers, its 15.9 for the Griswold and Gunnison and Spiller and Burr, both 36's. The ROA gets 35 grains. I use Lee dippers, preloading vinyl tubes at home for range use, I don't use powder measures. Grains listed are straight from the Lee listings for 3F powder. I did weight each dipper volume once some time back, and recall the weights were pretty close to volume stated, and in Black Powder shooting with revolvers, pretty close is often close enough.
Filler is merely for reduced loads and/or to fill the chamber bringing the projectile near the mouth of the chamber. A wad can certainly work as a filler as well.
Lube is generally used in wads to forgo the mess of putting over the ball. Some will blow all over the gun and will get on your hands and whatever else you have there. I've never tried lube over the projectile because I don't care much for a mess.
But then I mostly shoot conicals these days and they have a groove for lube.
Lube is generally used in wads to forgo the mess of putting over the ball. Some will blow all over the gun and will get on your hands and whatever else you have there. I've never tried lube over the projectile because I don't care much for a mess.
But then I mostly shoot conicals these days and they have a groove for lube.
OP
OP
1861
Member
You won't believe the twilight zone schyt I had today. After work I went to bed and a call from hidden number woke me up. It was a police officer asking can he come to talk to me about my gun registration. I told him that that's process is already finished, he replied that it can't be finished when he didn't had his talk with me. To make a long story short - remember that lost file of my case at the police? Apparently, this guy has either found it - or more likely he was in charge of it all the time - and now he decided to act and to finish his "opened case", not knowing that others had finished it already some days ago. If I was him, I would feel really embarrased, but somehow I doubt it that he will.
I'm still waiting for reply from city official about me shooting at the city's firing range. If I don't get positive reply in 2 days, I'll go higher and higher with uncomfortable questions, until I reach the mayor, police chiefs and newspapers. My guess is that since local residents (around the range) complain for years that shooting is scaring their foreign guests/tourists away and they want the range to be shut down, the shooters' club members want to keep the number of its members at minimum, and to operate as a private thing, a close circle of friends, freemasons-type-of-schyt. THAT would explain WHY there is NO info anywhere on the web about: ADRESS of the range, OPENING HOURS, NAME(S) of who's in charge, TELEPHONE number of the shooter's club and/or the range, CONDITIONS under which the range can be used, like fees, documents needed and such. They use the range when they want - when they agree to go there and open it and use it, there is no schedule, no official working hours. Totally like a private club, very dubious. Even in this part of the world that's unacceptable. The range is a public institution, built and owned by the city.
Are there anywhere some results from measuring the level of noise created by firing different firearms? I would like to see decibels produced by modern handguns using cartridges compared to decibels produced by cap and ball revolver.
I'm still waiting for reply from city official about me shooting at the city's firing range. If I don't get positive reply in 2 days, I'll go higher and higher with uncomfortable questions, until I reach the mayor, police chiefs and newspapers. My guess is that since local residents (around the range) complain for years that shooting is scaring their foreign guests/tourists away and they want the range to be shut down, the shooters' club members want to keep the number of its members at minimum, and to operate as a private thing, a close circle of friends, freemasons-type-of-schyt. THAT would explain WHY there is NO info anywhere on the web about: ADRESS of the range, OPENING HOURS, NAME(S) of who's in charge, TELEPHONE number of the shooter's club and/or the range, CONDITIONS under which the range can be used, like fees, documents needed and such. They use the range when they want - when they agree to go there and open it and use it, there is no schedule, no official working hours. Totally like a private club, very dubious. Even in this part of the world that's unacceptable. The range is a public institution, built and owned by the city.
Are there anywhere some results from measuring the level of noise created by firing different firearms? I would like to see decibels produced by modern handguns using cartridges compared to decibels produced by cap and ball revolver.
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Kaeto
Member
To get to the nearest range I can shoot my BP guns at is a 120 mile round trip. It's a state owned range inside a state game area.
You can also do archery, skeet, and trap there. Plus it has a range dedicated to shotgun patterning.
You can also do archery, skeet, and trap there. Plus it has a range dedicated to shotgun patterning.
OP
OP
1861
Member
I need 40 minutes by foot to get to the range. It's out of hand, but on lovely location, on the cliff above the sea.
OP
OP
1861
Member
Owners are citizens, it's public. President of the shooters' club tried to sold me a bullschyt story 2 days ago with imaginary "reasons" why I can't use the range, so no way he'll ever touch my gun.
Ephraim Kibbey
Member
This mentions BP being less than smokeless in the written part but not in the chart:
http://www.prep-blog.com/PDF/2-Gunfire-Noise.pdf
With commercial smokeless cartridges, making a comparison is pretty straight forward and there are many charts online.
It is very complicated with loose powder and ball because the amount of powder, type of powder, all of the projectile variables as well as barrel length make a black powder revolver capable of a range of noise levels.
Note that bp has a 'Whoomp" sound compared to the "Crack" sound of smokeless so the sound may go on longer with bp.
http://www.prep-blog.com/PDF/2-Gunfire-Noise.pdf
With commercial smokeless cartridges, making a comparison is pretty straight forward and there are many charts online.
It is very complicated with loose powder and ball because the amount of powder, type of powder, all of the projectile variables as well as barrel length make a black powder revolver capable of a range of noise levels.
Note that bp has a 'Whoomp" sound compared to the "Crack" sound of smokeless so the sound may go on longer with bp.
OP
OP
1861
Member
Thanks Ephraim.
Kaeto
Member
Also most smokeless guns projectiles are supersonic while BP isn't.
LonesomePigeon
Member
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- Apr 6, 2015
- Messages
- 501
1861, sorry to hear your local range doesn't allow black powder. You mentioned 4 or 5 other guys used to shoot black powder. I wonder if you could somehow get in touch with them. If you could get enough people together and form a club, maybe you could approach the range and ask about setting aside a certain time once a month when the club can shoot black powder.
Handgun Decibel 163db
http://www.caohc.org/UserFiles/file/Shot of Prevention extra handout.pdf
http://www.caohc.org/UserFiles/file/Shot of Prevention Handout.pdf
https://www.asha.org/public/hearing/Recreational-Firearm-Noise-Exposure/
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/nioshtic-2/20031787.html
See Page 25 for decibels of various firearms:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/2002-0131-2898.pdf
http://www.caohc.org/UserFiles/file/Shot of Prevention extra handout.pdf
http://www.caohc.org/UserFiles/file/Shot of Prevention Handout.pdf
https://www.asha.org/public/hearing/Recreational-Firearm-Noise-Exposure/
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/nioshtic-2/20031787.html
See Page 25 for decibels of various firearms:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/2002-0131-2898.pdf
J-Bar
Member
At 5:25 into this video, you see me shooting a pair of Uberti 1851s with 1cc of 2F Goex powder, about 15 grains, behind a .36 caliber lead ball. Just so you have some idea of the report.
Oddly enough that video answered a question of mine about using FFG, RS, and APP powders in a revolver. Looks like no issues at all.
OP
OP
1861
Member
Thanks drobs for the links, somewhat interesting and educational, but not very helpful in my case, Ephraim explained it just why is that:
"It is very complicated with loose powder and ball because the amount of powder, type of powder, all of the projectile variables as well as barrel length make a black powder revolver capable of a range of noise levels."
But what I really enjoyed is Mr. J-Bar's videos
Several days since my email to the city official who's in charge of the shooting range (and not just shooting range), I still didn't receive his reply. The same mail was sent to the president of the shooting club whose members use the range (one must be a club member to enter the range). That kind of bahaviour - not replying - was somewhat expected, and not unusual in this part of the world, but nevertheless - unacceptable. So I gave him a call. This morning I called that city official on his mobile phone. (I can be very resourceful.) I asked did he recive my email. He confirmed. I asked for his written reply when he finds some time. He replied that he will tell the other email recipient (the president of the shooting club) to reply me. The city official is above the president of the shooting club, because the city gave permission to the shooting club to use the range which is city's property. The city official briefly added that he sees no problem for me to use the range.
He sounded like he doesn't care and doesn't want to be bothered with it, so I guess he'll just say to the club's president to let me in and that's it. But, nothing's over yet until I'm actually there. So no, I still haven't fired it yet, and now I'm preparing for a trip to Germany! Jawohl!
"It is very complicated with loose powder and ball because the amount of powder, type of powder, all of the projectile variables as well as barrel length make a black powder revolver capable of a range of noise levels."
But what I really enjoyed is Mr. J-Bar's videos
Several days since my email to the city official who's in charge of the shooting range (and not just shooting range), I still didn't receive his reply. The same mail was sent to the president of the shooting club whose members use the range (one must be a club member to enter the range). That kind of bahaviour - not replying - was somewhat expected, and not unusual in this part of the world, but nevertheless - unacceptable. So I gave him a call. This morning I called that city official on his mobile phone. (I can be very resourceful.) I asked did he recive my email. He confirmed. I asked for his written reply when he finds some time. He replied that he will tell the other email recipient (the president of the shooting club) to reply me. The city official is above the president of the shooting club, because the city gave permission to the shooting club to use the range which is city's property. The city official briefly added that he sees no problem for me to use the range.
He sounded like he doesn't care and doesn't want to be bothered with it, so I guess he'll just say to the club's president to let me in and that's it. But, nothing's over yet until I'm actually there. So no, I still haven't fired it yet, and now I'm preparing for a trip to Germany! Jawohl!
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