200 LSWC Woes - Failure to Fit

[777funk]

I have a seating and crimping die in one step (Lee 3 Die Set) so since it's seated and crimped in one step it's not as easy to tell what the results are like step by step. I suppose I could back the crimp portion of the die ALL the way out to test.

I originally had it set to crimp to where I could see an obvious visibile crimp (looked like yours but maybe not quite that much). Now I have backed it off to where I can't see any visible crimp (the side profile looks straight and with no tool/work marks that would be evidence of a crimp on the outside of the case mouth area).

I think my biggest problem was too much flare. I had flare to where I could get the bullet at least 1/2 as far as it would be seated. Now it just fits in the mouth. Most cast bullets have a chamfer on the bottom anyway so this doesn't take much bell at all. I can push it just a little beyond the chamfer and into the diameter of the bullet's belt if I try by finger pressure before seating it.

All I know is that I now have rounds that work 100% in everything I've tested with (Ruger, 1911, G30 - but not with SWCs, RN only for the G30) and ALL of them pass the plop test very easily as with factory ammo assuming the seating depth is correct for the barrel and not extending into the rifling. I found a depth that works well for the SWC's I'm using and can make a round that works in almost any .45 if I want to, or make them longer for guns that will take it (where rifling is deeper).

So that's my suggestion: 1. Bell only enough and 2. Crimp only enough... .469 is what I was originally getting at the mouth and still having problems due to the bell being too much and creating a bulge below the crimp (once in a while, it'd even smash a case as it crimped... yeah, the bell was way too much). Now even .472 works just fine after fixing my bell issue.

 

[kerreckt]

I never understood why you need a case gauge when you have the barrel. I thought it was just more stuff someone wanted to make you believe you needed. Now, I understand that it is used to confuse the problem(s) at hand. Or, even better, used to create new problems. Just my $0.02.

 

[RealGun]

"I never understood" should include why any gun should rightfully accept a cartridge that fails a go/nogo gauge. I don't own one, and expect that many others do not either. You use a gauge if you want to.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Well bless your heart..............

Fred

 

[777funk]

So I take it you have no more trouble?

 

[41 Mag]

I cannot see why so many are against using a gauge to check the fit of a round. If it is what the OP wants to do so be it. It would be like jumping on someone for using a small base die or trimming revolver cases. Just because you don't want to or do not use one is no reason for the OP or anyone else not to. They do serve a purpose even if you yourself don't want to use them.

Personally I use one simply to make sure my ammo will fit, if it fits the gauge it fits the barrel. I don't like stripping my pistol down every time I load up a box of bullets. I have found more reasons to use one, than not to use one in other words. The other reason I use the gauge is that I not only load for my own pistol, but also for my daughters. I cannot use her barrel to check the fit in, since she lives some 3 hours away. So I rely on what I know works, and we have had no issues with it so far.

I started using one when I started loading for my 10mm years ago and found it was quite a time saver in not having to strip the pistol down just to check for any fit issues. Once I figured out what worked and set up dummy rounds for each bullet I found I really didn't need it. That said, I really don't need the one for my ACP if all I am loading is jacketed.

With lead however I have found it to be indispensable since I am playing with several different bullets and profiles. Once I finally decide on a load(s) and set up a dummy round(s) for it I doubt seriously that I will use it much after. In the mean time however it's working and thats what is important.

In reading back over this thread I have found that it could easily be the flare I am using which is causing as much of an issue as anything. Not that I am over doing it, but this seems to answer some of the issue I am having which is almost identical with the OP's issue. My remedy has been simply to toss the ones that don't fit into the other bin, then run them in just past the crimp only into the FCD die. I can easily feel just a touch of resistance when the rim of the case enters the die. Once past it has no more resistance. I will be loading up several hundred more this evening, and will be adjusting the expander die just a touch to see if this solves my issue.

I personally picked up the FCD die for my 454 and 45 Colt loads. I found it really didn't help a bit with what I was after. So verses just tossing it in the drawer like it was, I found it does work to iron out the little bit of an issue I have had. The funny thing is I only get this issue when I load SWC's, it doesn't happen when I load anything else. Go figure.

Hopefully reworking the expander will help, and if it does I will post back up here.

Update since earlier.

I adjusted my expander to the point where the flat based SWC would just sit atop of the case mouth. Then I adjusted the crimp to the point it smoothed smoothed out the lip on the case. I ran through 50 rounds of a HG-68 clone, and out of the 50 I only had 3 that wouldn't fall right to the bottom of the case gauge. Not sure what was up with those three. Ran just the lip into the FCD and they dropped all the way in.

Then I changed up bullets and went with a HG-130 SWC. Went through the same procedure as above only this time I had almost a dozen out of 50 that failed to fully fit. I ran just the lip of the rim through the FCD and they dropped in effortlessly. I didn't spend much time setting things up like I did with the first SWC. I figured since I already had some of these loaded I could get by with just setting the seater. Didn't work out that way. Not sure what the differences were, but I had more issues with this one over the other.

Switched bullets once more. This time I loaded 50 rounds using the MP-452-200 HP. Again I set up the dies as above noted. Loaded all 50 rounds then started checking them using the Wilson gauge. Out of the 50 I had one that didn't drop to the bottom on the first try. That one was due to lube which was gooped up on the nose. Once wiped clean, it dropped like the rest.

Right or wrong, it seems like the die adjustment can solve some or all of the issue. However if your loading more than one type bullet, it is going to be time consuming to set up each time before loading a batch. If your only using one type or profile, then you should be good once you tweak it in where it needs to be. I personally don't like using the gauge, but as mentioned above since I load for both myself and my daughter I need to make sure they all fit, and at least this is a sure fire way if making that happen. I do NOT run the cases into the FCD the full length of the cse however. I have done so and had it size the bullets down depending on what brass I was using. This coule also be part of the issue with what I am using now. I don't think so but I am using Winchester cases like I always have. Just now I am using .452 bullets instead of .451 jacketed so it could amplify the effect.

 

[johnmcl]

Hi all,

I have been away for a few days, and now am back on the problem.

Short story - I'm well and thank you all for the advice.

Following an earlier post I significantly reduced the belling in the powder drop stage of the Dillon reloading process. That fixed the problem. I also reduced the crimp depth. I am finding the crimp amount to be relatively insensitive to the gauge results within reason. That is, a little more or a little less crimp doesn't seem to have all that much effect.

Now the ammunition goes pretty well kerplunk into the gauge and very well kerplunk into the barrel. All good.

I'm going to continue to use the gauge. It is my nature to want an instrumented, repeatable hand loading process. You may not choose to do so, but you are not me.

The results of 25 shots at 10 meters are more than ok too.

 

[Walkalong]

Proofs in the pudding. Nice.