.45 200 SWC Frustrations

[ilmonster]

I am losing my mind. I have a Remington R1 Carry I am reloading for. I have a Dillon SDB that I've reloaded 9mm .38 and .44 rounds for for years with no problems. I recently bought .45 ACP dies from Dillon to reload for the R1.

I am reloading a 200 gr. SWC from Missouri Bullet Co. with 5.0 grains of HP-38 powder. I'll reload 6 rounds that pass the plunk test in the R1 barrel, and then the 7th round won't go in the last 1/8". I've got 1.23" OAL, .472-.473 diameter. I have tried sizing empty case and seeing if it fits in the barrel, and they always seem to. I'm am pulling out my few remaining hairs trying to figure out why 80% of the rounds fit, but the rest don't. When at the range, the ones that don't pass the plunk test won't chamber to shoot. Ideas??

p.s. a box of Blaser 230 gr. RN feeds through the gun fine.

 

[DC Plumber]

I crimp to .469 to .470.

That's what I've been told is where you want be and it does work for me too.

 

[kitsapshooter]

I think it is not enough crimp. Check the diameter just below the case mouth and just above the case webbing.

 

[rcmodel]

.45 ACP should be taper-crimped to .469" to .471", measured at the case mouth.

More like .471" with lead bullets.
You don't want to squish them, now do you?

rc

 

[ilmonster]

How far down should the crimp go. I am crimping where the bell is taken out of the finished round. I cranked the crimp die down a few turns for grins, and then the first 1/8" of brass is distinctly narrower than the rest of the case below it. Looks kind of odd.

Also, unlike the factory 230 RN rounds where the case looks straight, my rounds kind of bulge where the bullet is seated, is narrower in the middle of the case, and then get a little larger toward the case head.

 

[243winxb]

The bulge at the bullet base, if all the way around, is normal. If the bulge is on one side, bullet was not seated straight & may cause a chambering problem. Most of these types of problems are cured by seating the bullet deeper, shorter COL. Or adjusting you taper crimp. To much or to little crimp may be a problem. Added- If using brass of different head stamps, the length difference will cause a variation in the crimp.

 

[germ]

Perhaps your bullets are not consistent in diameter? You posted .472-.473 which is a typo I expect. I presume you intended .452-.453. I know my RIA will not chamber .453's at all, and everything I've read suggests this is the case with most 1911's. You could get an inexpensive Lee push through sizer at .452 (but don't be surprised if it doesn't size correctly). Probably better to get a .451 and open it up if need be.

 

[RealGun]

You could get an inexpensive Lee push through sizer at .452 (but don't be surprised if it doesn't size correctly).

What's that about?

 

[ReloaderFred]

Experiment with your seating depth (OAL). If your barrel is short chambered, with a short leade, then the shoulder of the bullet may be just touching the rifling. Try a little shorter OAL and see if that cures the problem.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[germ]

What's that about?

They often don't produce the diameter as stamped. For example: I recently ordered a .357 and though it was stamped as such, it produced .358. So I ordered a .356 (which actually produced .356) and I opened it up to get exactly what I wanted. This is not uncommon with Lee's. At least they're relatively inexpensive and opening up .001-.002 is almost effortless. After modifying, I wrap a p-touch label around the top of the die with the correct size printed.

 

[ilmonster]

The bullets I'm using are Missouri Bullet 200 gr SWC, sized at .452". The diameter I was referencing at .472-.473 is the loaded case diameter.

I measured some of the bullets, and they were .452" to .453" to the best of my measuring abilities (using a digital caliper) measuring at various places around the bullet.

I have the OAL about as short as possible, with just a hair of the bullet shoulder showing at the case mouth, no more than a fingernails thickness.

 

[243winxb]

Cast bullet diameter after sizing-Spring back.

RealGun & Germ. Lyman has said on there FAQ that different alloys spring back at different rates, after sizing. This may account for the difference?? I know i sent Lyman bullet sizing dies back because of incorrect finished bullet diameters. The replacement dies were closer, but not perfect.

 

[germ]

The bullets I'm using are Missouri Bullet 200 gr SWC, sized at .452". The diameter I was referencing at .472-.473 is the loaded case diameter.

I measured some of the bullets, and they were .452" to .453" to the best of my measuring abilities (using a digital caliper) measuring at various places around the bullet.

I have the OAL about as short as possible, with just a hair of the bullet shoulder showing at the case mouth, no more than a fingernails thickness.

Ahh, didn't think of od for some reason. Yeah, it's quite possible that your chamber is tight and won't allow .453. This may also depend on headstamp. Thin walls and a .453 may be ok. Well, that's just my best guess.

 

[243winxb]

I measured some of the bullets, and they were .452" to .453"

Some firearms like the XDm need a .451" to chamber correctly.

 

[Crocboy]

Consider crimping in a separate die from bullet seating. It is much easier to adjust one variable and it sounds like crimping is the issue. As far as OAL, you can measure from the bullet shoulder to the case head and keep that measurement between .930 and .935. there should be about a thumbnail's thickness of shoulder showing above the case mouth. You can also get a flat headed seating stem to better fit the LSWC profile. Or, you can fill your concave stem with hot glue and flatten it. The glue can be removed if you want to go back to RN, but once you get the LSWC worked out you will like them!

 

[Winchester 70]

I have been running xtreme 200gr .451 LSWC in My Remington R1 1911 Full size without one hiccup. I use 7.5 grains of IMR 4756 with a COL of 1.267 and a crimp of .471. I am using the Lee 4 die set with the separate factory crimp die.

 

[RealGun]

Cast bullet diameter after sizing-Spring back.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RealGun & Germ. Lyman has said on there FAQ that different alloys spring back at different rates, after sizing. This may account for the difference?? I know i sent Lyman bullet sizing dies back because of incorrect finished bullet diameters. The replacement dies were closer, but not perfect.

Bullet makers must size while lead is still warm (or something), because I find myself needing to resize Lasercast and Meister. That's anecdotal and cannot represent all of their bullets.

 

[ilmonster]

Crocboy, the Dillon Square Deal B does seat the bullet in one station (station 3) and crimps the round in the last station (station 4). I will try to measure the distance from the bullet shoulder to the case head tonight.

As some people have surmised, I am using range brass with different head stamps, mostly Winchester, Federal and Blaser Brass. I'll see if the oversized rounds I have segregated have similar headstamps (boy, that would be an easy fix). Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[germ]

RealGun & Germ. Lyman has said on there FAQ that different alloys spring back at different rates, after sizing. This may account for the difference?? I know i sent Lyman bullet sizing dies back because of incorrect finished bullet diameters. The replacement dies were closer, but not perfect.

Yes, this is true. I imagine it would be impossible for any manufacturer to produce a die that would accurately size all the possible alloys we create. I would venture a guess that Lyman's dies would work best using Lyman #2 alloy, since they're designed for that specific alloy. This is why I would rather get a die that's a bit too small, so I can just hone it out to suit my own typical alloy.

 

[Bailey Boat]

Make sure that you're not short stroking the press. If done "occasionally" that could account for the 20% that won't properly chamber....

 

[noylj]

This is reloading 101:
When you do the "plunk" test and a ROUND does not chamber, you "paint" the bullet and case with black Magic Marker. Drop the round in the barrel and rotate back-and-forth and remove. Look at scratches where round rubbed in chamber.
If marks are on bullet, COL is too long.
If marks are on case moth, insufficient crimp
If marks are on case at bottom of bullet, case was not expanded enough (not talking case mouth flare, but actual case expansion to withing 0.001-0.002" of bullet diameter for case interior) or the bullet was seated crooked (which is also often caused by NOT expanding the case enough). Look to expander die or seating stem.
If marks are just above the extractor groove, there is or was a bulge in the case.
Do this and tell us what the problem is.
PS: ANY SAAMI chambered .45 Auto can chamber up to 0.454" bullets with ease. If yours really can't (and you have marked some rounds to determine what the problem really is), contact the manufacturer as your barrel is out of spec.

 

[Rule3]

Experiment with your seating depth (OAL). If your barrel is short chambered, with a short leade, then the shoulder of the bullet may be just touching the rifling. Try a little shorter OAL and see if that cures the problem.

Hope this helps.

Fred

This^^^^ You never mentioned your COL? I went through the same thing with one of my 1911's. It does drive you crazy. Need to find that :magic" COL.

It really was a matter of just a few thousandths between feeding or not. It may pass the "plunk" test but still not go up the feed ramp smoothly

 

[MightyMO1911]

The guys have all covered it quite well. I'll just throw in here that I occasionally get a piece of mixed brass that is thicker than the rest. These always give me fits and I trash em. Otherwise I would absolutely agree to crimp a couple thou more and possibly seat the bullets just a bit deeper.

 

[dbmjr1]

My RIA will cycle empty brass. So something is amis here.


I was having problems with case bulge because I was seating and crimping bullets in the same stroke. I separated out those two functions and have not had a problem since.

You really don't need much crimp on those cast bullets. If you put too much crimp, you'll end up re-sizing the bullet to a smaller diameter. That can lead to leading, as plasma seeps between the fired bullet and the barrel. Not enough crimp and you get bullet set back, which reduces case volume and increases pressure. Possibly resulting in a kaboom.

I use the push test to determine how much to crimp. It's a minimal amount.

 

[germ]

...I'll reload 6 rounds that pass the plunk test in the R1 barrel, and then the 7th round won't go in the last 1/8". I've got 1.23" OAL,...

Above is from the OP. He also stated that bullet diameter varies from .452 to .453. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't notice an 1/8 difference in oal. So without any further checking/input from the op, I'm sticking with the combination of bullet diameter, occasional thick walled brass, typically tight 1911 chamber.

The op can check out exactly what the differences are in the cartridges that refuse to chamber. Pull a bullet or two and see if they are .453. Does it only happen with certain head stamps? Does it only happen with the .453's in certain head stamps? Alternatively, set aside some of the .453's and make up some dummy cartridges in one of each head stamp that you have. Drop test each. Should probably also do the same with .452's just to rule out any problems with them.

Of course, I could be wrong.

<edit>Neck tension is what prevents setback, not crimp. "Crimping" in this application is used only to eliminate case mouth flare.</edit>