9mm sizing problem

[nettlle]

About (1) out of every 200 rounds I am getting a reload that will fail my Wilson case gauge and won't plunk in my barrel. This is mixed range brass using Dillon dies. Seems like the majority of the problem reloads are either PPU or Geco brass.

 

[Walkalong]

When mine does that it is almost always fat near the base. I now gauge all of my sized 9MM cases and scrap all that don't gauge. No issues reloading those cases.

I do it because I had an EMP with a SAMMI minimum chamber, and a fat case would lock it up. Those same cases would chamber fine in my other 9MM guns, but I still gauge all my sized 9MM cases now, even though I gave to the EMP to my son.

 

[NMexJim]

Is the failure because of the brass or bullet length? If you’re failing plunk, I would suspect COAL.

When I set up any of my pistol brass FL sizers, I use my Wilson gages to be sure zI’m set right. You might try both of those brands in the gage right out of your sizer and see if they fly. If they do, I’d say it’s something else.

https://dilloncdn.com/manuals/dillon-die-instructions-english.pdf

Look at page 5. Dillion recommends nearly the same.

If I get any weirdness like brass hanging up in a gage, I go back and reset everything.

 

[nettlle]

When mine does that it is almost always fat near the base. I now gauge all of my sized 9MM cases and scrap all that don't gauge. No issues reloading those cases.

I do it because I had an EMP with a SAMMI minimum chamber, and a fat case would lock it up. Those same cases would chamber fine in my other 9MM guns, but I still gauge all my sized 9MM cases now, even though I gave to the EMP to my son.

View attachment 1169251
View attachment 1169252

It's as you say. Fat near the base. Maybe I need to resize all of my range brass and sort them with a gauge? That would be easier than pulling bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

I usually lose 10/15% of range brass to the gauge. No telling what pressures some of it has been subjected to.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

Dillon has a pretty wide mouth, in turn the base of their dies are larger in diameter and don't size all the way down.

Their, Dillon, 40 SW dies were the reason I buy nothing but redding now.

I gauge every round I make with a shock bottle gauge, it's tighter then a dillon and Wilson gauge, with redding dies I don't have problems.

 

[nettlle]

I really don't think it's in the die. If it were in the die why does it resize 200 rounds perfectly and then throw out one oddball? I'm going to give Walkalong's suggestion a try by resizing all of the 9mm brass I have acuired, gauging them, and tossing the ones that fail the case gauge. At a (1) in (200) failure rate it's not that big of a deal. I can buy many thousands of 9mm brass for the price of a new Redding die. I have a lot of Redding dies and have nothing against Redding. Dillon's are easier to clean and prefer Dillon dies for pistol.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Before I started using an undersized die I’d get a few range pick ups that after sizing wouldn’t pass the Lee gauge. I’d then use a 9mm Makarov FCD as a bulge buster. Fixed them every time and I’d load em like the rest.

Edit:not Lee gauge, Wilson gauge

 

[lordpaxman]

This is mixed range brass using Dillon dies. Seems like the majority of the problem reloads are either PPU or Geco brass.

I have the same issue with mixed brass, but it’s almost always CBC brass. I just loaded 600, Dillon dies, and had about 2-3 per 100 show up that didn’t pass the Shockbottle case gauge. In my case, with a P320, they’ll chamber so I set them aside for live fire practice. I’m not going to reset any dies or make any adjustments to the process just to get these to case gauge. If all I had was CBC brass then that’s a different story, I’d find a solution. Gaging sized cases would help but not guarantee reloaded rounds will pass.

 

[WeekendReloader]

I had that problem where it would fail to gauge. It was due to the case being big around the base.

I solved it using a LEE Bulge Buster kit and a 9mm MAK Factory Crimp Die. Take the guts out of the die and use the bulge buster kit to push the case through the 9mmMAK die. The carbide ring will resize the back half of the case.

I clean my cases first, then bulge bust, then size and reload as normal.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I use RCBS carbide dies and they do pretty well also for getting the bulges out on my progressive presses. But it has to be against the shell plate when it's under load to do that.

I had a lot that wouldn't go through my Lyman gauge when I first started loading 9mm years ago. Couldn't figure out why. Micrometer told me nothing.

I started running my loaded ammo through my rotary tumbler with Lyman tuff nut for 10 minutes to get the sizing wax off, and I discovered they all started passing my gauge afterwards.

In my case I think it's something like small scrapings at the case mouth, from the seating and crimp process or something. I don't chamfer my 9mm brass, but maybe I should start.

Plated bullet brass is really soft, not like a bullet jacket. (Again in my case)

It's a very minor problem that has never affected anything for me, but it's just irritating, but because they hang up in my case gauge, my OCD won't let it go.
So I started seating and crimping in separate steps and that helped immensely.

Over taper crimping just a little will also cause problems for the gauge. They don't look like they are over crimped but they can be tight in the gauge. Back the crimp off a little and they drop right in and fall right out.

That's one reason we always say to use the minimum crimp you can get away with.

Good luck

 

[sevt_chevelle]

I really don't think it's in the die. If it were in the die why does it resize 200 rounds perfectly and then throw out one oddball? I'm going to give Walkalong's suggestion a try by resizing all of the 9mm brass I have acuired, gauging them, and tossing the ones that fail the case gauge. At a (1) in (200) failure rate it's not that big of a deal. I can buy many thousands of 9mm brass for the price of a new Redding die. I have a lot of Redding dies and have nothing against Redding. Dillon's are easier to clean and prefer Dillon dies for pistol.

Because not all brass is created equal and not all pistol chambers are equally speced. That's why you get oddball brass.
I can tell a reloaded cbc piece of brass by just looking at it without seeing the headstamp, same with aguilla brass.
I'd rather spend the 30 to 40 bucks and fix the issue, then spend hours and hours sorting.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I had that problem where it would fail to gauge. It was due to the case being big around the base.

I solved it using a LEE Bulge Buster kit and a 9mm MAK Factory Crimp Die. Take the guts out of the die and use the bulge buster kit to push the case through the 9mmMAK die. The carbide ring will resize the back half of the case.

I clean my cases first, then bulge bust, then size and reload as normal.

Hmm…sounds like post #8

 

[Dudedog]

I used mixed range brass and will usually have one or 2 that just won't gauge.
I just break them down and toss that brass.
Since the number is small it's not worth the trouble to me to "bulge bust" them.

A roll sizer would be nice but they are $$$

 

[Jim Watson]

It's as you say. Fat near the base.

I use the infamous Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die.
I often get a burnished ring near the head where the widemouth frog Dillon sizing die does not touch.
I sometimes get a burnished ring over the base band of coated lead bullets.

I used mixed range brass and will usually have one or 2 that just won't gauge.
I just break them down and toss that brass.

I STILL get some that won't gauge. I just put a mark on the primer and bullet and shoot them in practice. I can't recall the last one that would not chamber in a gun except for a split case that I missed by eyeball.

 

[Dudedog]

I use the infamous Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die.

I do to for 9mm

 

[gifbohane]

I used mixed range brass and will usually have one or 2 that just won't gauge.
I just break them down and toss that brass.

Same here. I case gauge every 9mm case (after sizing and before belling.) At the end I case gauge the finished round. Inevitably 1 or 2 out of 100 will not fit in the gauge. But I just break them down after they don't fit in the gauge. If I take the trouble to plonk them in the barrel, they will plonk.

I always wondered why that happened.

I will never use the infamous Lee Factory Crimp die.

 

[Jim Watson]

You folks must be doing something way more important with 9mms than I am to put all that extra work into them.
If I can get reliable feeding, they will hit the IDPA Zero or USPSA A zone.

 

[LiveLife]

About (1) out of every 200 rounds I am getting a reload that will fail my Wilson case gauge and won't plunk in my barrel. This is mixed range brass ... PPU or Geco brass

I'm going to give Walkalong's suggestion a try by resizing all of the 9mm brass I have acuired, gauging them, and tossing the ones that fail the case gauge.

While gauging the resized brass is a good idea, if finished rounds are contacting chamber wall, it may be due to thicker case wall bulging case neck below where taper crimp is applied. If this is the case, then sorting out thicker case wall brass may be required.

Mark the finished round that won't plunk in the barrel with marker to see where the rub is - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389

If area near case neck is rubbing the chamber wall, then it's not resizing die issue rather thicker case wall issue. (And increasing taper crimp won't help as taper crimp is applied around .100" below case mouth. Lee FCD could be used to post-size the case neck but I would check for bullet setback)

Since PPU/Geco headstamp brass are giving you problems, it's likely thicker case wall brass that's the cause as they tend to have thicker than typical case wall at .200" below case mouth where bullet base gets seated down to (See below comparison measurements with Starline brass) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

Case Wall Thickness .200" below case mouth (Around bullet seating depth for HSM 115 RN at 1.130" OAL):

GECO: .014"/.014"/.0125"/.014"​

GECO: .014"/.014"/.014"/.015"​

GECO: .014"/.013"/.014"/.013"​

​

PPU: .014"/.014"/.014"/.013"​

PPU: .015"/.015"/.013"/.014"​

PPU: .013"/.014"/.014"/.013"​

​

Starline: .012"/.012"/.013"/.012"​

Starline: .012"/.013".012"/.011"​

Starline: .012"/.012"/.013"/.013"​

 

[CQB45ACP]

Same here. I case gauge every 9mm case (after sizing and before belling.) At the end I case gauge the finished round. Inevitably 1 or 2 out of 100 will not fit in the gauge. But I just break them down after they don't fit in the gauge. If I take the trouble to plonk them in the barrel, they will plonk.

I always wondered why that happened.

I will never use the infamous Lee Factory Crimp die.

Are the non-fitting finished rounds already taper crimped? Or is this before?

 

[CQB45ACP]

I use the infamous Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die.
I often get a burnished ring near the head where the widemouth frog Dillon sizing die does not touch.
I sometimes get a burnished ring over the base band of coated lead bullets.


I STILL get some that won't gauge. I just put a mark on the primer and bullet and shoot them in practice. I can't recall the last one that would not chamber in a gun except for a split case that I missed by eyeball.

The finished rounds don’t fit gauge after taper crimping?

 

[Jim Watson]

Maybe 1% come up short rim thickness or less. I wonder if the bullet might have a little more shoulder out due to variations in seating in that mixed brass. I don't stop to analyze, I just throw them in the practice box.

 

[NMexJim]

Dillon has a pretty wide mouth, in turn the base of their dies are larger in diameter and don't size all the way down.

Their, Dillon, 40 SW dies were the reason I buy nothing but redding now.
,
I gauge every round I make with a shock bottle gauge, it's tighter then a dillon and Wilson gauge, with redding dies I don't have problems.

I’d really not want to use a gage that’s tighter than a Wilson. That’d be frustrating I’d think. I have some Hornady gages and they are downright loose compared to a Wilson.

I've said before that I buy 9mm from a CCW trainer by the bucketful. I punch the primers, and then clean it. I set the FL dies by the Wilson gage and sometimes I need a bit of firm cam over. I hardly ever have any brass that I discard. Nearly all of it seems to work just fine. Thick, thin, foreign, or domestic, it all works. Maybe I'm Mister Lucky.

 

[nettlle]

While gauging the resized brass is a good idea, if finished rounds are contacting chamber wall, it may be due to thicker case wall bulging case neck below where taper crimp is applied. If this is the case, then sorting out thicker case wall brass may be required.

Mark the finished round that won't plunk in the barrel with marker to see where the rub is - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389

If area near case neck is rubbing the chamber wall, then it's not resizing die issue rather thicker case wall issue. (And increasing taper crimp won't help as taper crimp is applied around .100" below case mouth. Lee FCD could be used to post-size the case neck but I would check for bullet setback)

Since PPU/Geco headstamp brass are giving you problems, it's likely thicker case wall brass that's the cause as they tend to have thicker than typical case wall at .200" below case mouth where bullet base gets seated down to (See below comparison measurements with Starline brass) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

Case Wall Thickness .200" below case mouth (Around bullet seating depth for HSM 115 RN at 1.130" OAL):

GECO: .014"/.014"/.0125"/.014"​

GECO: .014"/.014"/.014"/.015"​

GECO: .014"/.013"/.014"/.013"​

​

PPU: .014"/.014"/.014"/.013"​

PPU: .015"/.015"/.013"/.014"​

PPU: .013"/.014"/.014"/.013"​

​

Starline: .012"/.012"/.013"/.012"​

Starline: .012"/.013".012"/.011"​

Starline: .012"/.012"/.013"/.013"​

This is a good read. Would the wall thickness matter since the crimp diameter is always going to be controlled by the taper crimp die?

 

[gifbohane]

Are the non-fitting finished rounds already taper crimped? Or is this before?

Yes they all have been seated and taper crimped and the very few will not go all the way into the case gauge. Just weird fine before but not after.. and very few.