9mm sizing problem

[CQB45ACP]

I’d really not want to use a gage that’s tighter than a Wilson. That’d be frustrating I’d think. I have some Hornady gages and they are downright loose compared to a Wilson.

I've said before that I buy 9mm from a CCW trainer by the bucketful. I punch the primers, and then clean it. I set the FL dies by the Wilson gage and sometimes I need a bit of firm cam over. I hardly ever have any brass that I discard. Nearly all of it seems to work just fine. Thick, thin, foreign, or domestic, it all works. Maybe I'm Mister Lucky.

Makes two us until you’ve now jinxed us

 

[CQB45ACP]

Yes they all have been seated and taper crimped and the very few will not go all the way into the case gauge. Just weird fine before but not after.. and very few.

And frustrating

 

[nettlle]

I watched some you tube videos on the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die and it may help with the problem. Midway has them on sale for $20.69 so I ordered one.

 

[LiveLife]

Would the wall thickness matter since the crimp diameter is always going to be controlled by the taper crimp die?

Yes.

As I posted already, taper crimp is applied around .100" below case mouth where as case neck bulge could occur around .200" below (Depending on bullet profile and seating depth) where taper crimp die won't reach.

Marking the round that won't fully chamber with marker should reveal what part of round is contacting the chamber.

 

[nettlle]

Yes.

As I posted already, taper crimp is applied around .100" below case mouth where as case neck bulge could occur around .200" below (Depending on bullet profile and seating depth) where taper crimp die won't reach.

Marking the round that won't fully chamber with marker should reveal what part of round is contacting the chamber.

I understand now. Thank you for the tutorial! Odd that I have reloaded tens of thousands of 45acp without ever needing a case gauge. Seems the pesky little 9mm is a different animal.

 

[deadeye dick]

99MMThe only problem i have had with 9MM is with AMERC,( of course) and some basement brands like Hotshot. They plunk in my Hornady case guage but will not plunk after loading. I can redo them but once loaded will not guage. I dont sort my 9MM cases but if they dont plunk i just toss them

 

[9mmepiphany]

Just weird fine before but not after.. and very few.

Sometimes this will be caused by not starting your bullet straight in the case. This will cause the side of the case to bulge out at the base of the bullet

 

[CQB45ACP]

Because not all brass is created equal and not all pistol chambers are equally speced. That's why you get oddball brass.
I can tell a reloaded cbc piece of brass by just looking at it without seeing the headstamp, same with aguilla brass.
I'd rather spend the 30 to 40 bucks and fix the issue, then spend hours and hours sorting.

No offense but sounds like a parlor trick—

How can you tell loaded CBC & Aguila? Has to be in person I’ll bet?

 

[JerkyFreak]

TLDR

Basically, Dillon sizing dies do not size close enough to the case rim.

To make sure that Dillon machines run with less stoppages the carbide sizing ring has more of a taper allowing a slightly larger orifice for cases to enter the die. This means that it does not size as close to the case rim as other brand dies. In turn this causes the case web to expand more. Get a Lee 9mm sizing die and use that. You will immediately see which cases wont pass the plunk test.

It is interesting to note that Lee owners do not need case gauges...

 

[JerkyFreak]

I understand now. Thank you for the tutorial! Odd that I have reloaded tens of thousands of 45acp without ever needing a case gauge. Seems the pesky little 9mm is a different animal.

9mm is just as easy to reload as .45acp. Difference is the dies. Plenty reloaders reload thousands of 9mm rounds with no problems without using case gauges. I also do not know of any 9mm unsupported chambers.

 

[drband]

Delete. Wrong thread!

 

[sevt_chevelle]

No offense but sounds like a parlor trick—

How can you tell loaded CBC & Aguila? Has to be in person I’ll bet?

The brass reacts in very predictable manners.

I can also tell from the sound, flat head ford and stove bolt six chevy engines

 

[FROGO207]

I must live a charmed existance then. I have 8 9MM pistols and never had problems with my reloads as long as they pass the plunk test. All my chambers must be as big as sausages ir something. Oh, I am using a set of Lee carbide dies. Never even tried the FCD tnat was included in 75K+ rounds loaded and shot so far.
I better not buy a case gage it just might jinx me LOL.

 

[sparkyv]

Bulge Buster is my answer to an enlarged base, within [edit: corrected misspelling] reason, of course. If I can see that the brass is bulged, to the scrap pile it goes. Otherwise, I load 'em up, check in a cartridge gauge, and Bulge Bust the loaded rounds as needed. No need to check every piece of brass first, then run the loaded round through the gauge a second time. YMMV

When mine does that it is almost always fat near the base

It's as you say. Fat near the base

Before I started using an undersized die I’d get a few range pick ups that after sizing wouldn’t pass the Lee gauge. I’d then use a 9mm Makarov FCD as a bulge buster. Fixed them every time and I’d load em like the rest.

Edit:not Lee gauge, Wilson gauge

I had that problem where it would fail to gauge. It was due to the case being big around the base.

I solved it using a LEE Bulge Buster kit and a 9mm MAK Factory Crimp Die. Take the guts out of the die and use the bulge buster kit to push the case through the 9mmMAK die. The carbide ring will resize the back half of the case.

 

[PO2Hammer]

My Lee sizer does a great job of getting down low on tough cases.

I can feel the difference between CBC and the softer brands when sizing and seating. CBC is stone hard, but it seems consistent. It always works well for me, but I keep it separate from other brands.

Sorting brass is a pita, but it prevents a lot of problems, and might save time in the long run.

 

[CQB45ACP]

The brass reacts in very predictable manners.

I can also tell from the sound, flat head ford and stove bolt six chevy engines

I’m with you on engine/exhaust sounds—since the 60s for me—but are you saying 4.5gr Sport Pistol sounds different in an Aguila than a Speer?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I had that problem where it would fail to gauge. It was due to the case being big around the base.

I solved it using a LEE Bulge Buster kit and a 9mm MAK Factory Crimp Die. Take the guts out of the die and use the bulge buster kit to push the case through the 9mmMAK die. The carbide ring will resize the back half of the case.

I clean my cases first, then bulge bust, then size and reload as normal.

I think the general consensus is, this is a good approach for standard pressure, mid-range and lower handloading BUT should be avoided with higher pressure and maximum loads because of thinning and stress in the base. I don’t have any personal experience using bulge busters so I’m just going by what I’ve seen here and other places online.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

but are you saying 4.5gr Sport Pistol sounds different in an Aguila than a Speer?

Dude what are you talking about?
Where did the words 4.5gr of sport pistol come from?

I said I can tell a reload piece of cbc and aguilla brass.
You said it's a parlor trick.
I said the brass reacts in very predictable manners.

Cbc brass is thicker and stronger. Compared to say RP brass, it's .006 to .008 total thicker. That extra thickness of brass combined with an alloy that doesn't like changes has a very distinctive look when reloaded that no other piece of brass does.
Aguilla balloons outwards at the base of the bullet due to being soft.

You call it parlor tricks, I call it being observant in what one does.

 

[nettlle]

I have (3) 9mm pistols. (2) CZ PCR's and a Dan Wesson Vigil Commander. If the only pistols I had were PCR's I wouldn't need a case gauge because the PCR's will eat anything fed to them. The Dan Wesson must have a tighter chamber because if the round doesn't pass the case gauge it won't pass the Dan Wesson either.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Dude what are you talking about?
Where did the words 4.5gr of sport pistol come from?

I said I can tell a reload piece of cbc and aguilla brass.
You said it's a parlor trick.
I said the brass reacts in very predictable manners.

Cbc brass is thicker and stronger. Compared to say RP brass, it's .006 to .008 total thicker. That extra thickness of brass combined with an alloy that doesn't like changes has a very distinctive look when reloaded that no other piece of brass does.
Aguilla balloons outwards at the base of the bullet due to being soft.

You call it parlor tricks, I call it being observant in what one does.

Take it easy big guy am just trying to figure out what you are talking about

So yes it’s a parlor trick I don’t think you can tell. That clear enough?

Edit—that’s me being unnecessarily jerky. Sorry. I apologize. (But I am a skeptic.)

 

[Soonerpesek]

Dude what are you talking about?
Where did the words 4.5gr of sport pistol come from?

The Sport Pistol comment was for reference…

You said:

I can also tell from the sound,

Making it appear that YOU can differentiate the 2 different headstamps by sound…?!

EX…loading both cases with the same charge of any powder, and you could tell us whet they were by the report…?

I would lean toward hogwash also……

 

[sevt_chevelle]

The Sport Pistol comment was for reference…

You said:


Making it appear that YOU can differentiate the 2 different headstamps by sound…?!

EX…loading both cases with the same charge of any powder, and you could tell us whet they were by the report…?

I would lean toward hogwash also……

Please by all means quote me where I said anything about telling a piece of brass by sound.

Once again.
Cbc brass is thicker and more resistant to sizing, so it's going to physically behave in a different manner then a piece of brass that is thinner and softer.
Now reload that piece of cbc brass, it's gonna react physically different to say a piece of RP brass.
Now with your EYES, look at the appearance of said piece of brass.
It will physically appear different than a reloaded piece of rp, win.

That physical difference is what I can tell apart, it's plain as day to spot. Nothing to do with sound.

 

[Soonerpesek]

Please by all means quote me where I said anything about telling a piece of brass by sound.

This…

I can also tell from the sound

Your words…. Not mine…

 

[Walkalong]

Let's get back on track...........

 

[lordpaxman]

Since I wanted to switch the progressive from 9mm to .40, I thought I’d run a little experiment first. I just sized some CBC, GECO, GFL, and Perfecta which usually don’t gauge completely after a complete reload. Just sized, however, they all gauged fine. This is using Dillon Dies which reportedly don’t size as well as other dies.
After stuffing these with 147gr RMR FP MW,s at 1.150”, they didn’t gauge completely and were slightly proud of the Shockbottle gauge. This is not a fault of the RMR bullets, it’s just the nature of the beast with a 9mm and that heavy/long of a projectile.