I dd a search and did not find a answer to my problem. When I resize my 223 brass (mixed headstam) and then run it through my case gauge, about half of them fail to fully insert. they are sticking up aboout 40 thousanths. I have the die screwed all the way down until it touches the shell holder and then a quarter turn more. It seems like to me that the shoulder is not getting set back far enough. The dies are Hornady Custom Grade New Diamention dies. Any ideas? The gauge that I am using is a Lyman case gauge.
223Sizing problem
- Thread starter Randy1911
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rcmodel
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Could be dry case necks allowing the expander to pull the shoulders back out.
Try cleaning / lubing the case necks a tad with a nylon bore brush and see if that helps.
rc
Try cleaning / lubing the case necks a tad with a nylon bore brush and see if that helps.
rc
rcmodel I use a nylon case neck brush with lube on each case as I size them. Any other thoughs?
I will inspect for burrs on the rim.
When I was checking them in the case gage, I noticed that it didn't matter what headstamp it was. Some of the same headstamp would fit and some would not.
jj
If it matters, I am shoting them in a Ruger Mini-14
I will inspect for burrs on the rim.
When I was checking them in the case gage, I noticed that it didn't matter what headstamp it was. Some of the same headstamp would fit and some would not.
jjIf it matters, I am shoting them in a Ruger Mini-14
Interesting that some size down enough and some don't. Is some of the brass pretty old, as in work hardened and very springy? Other than that, I would have to go with the shoulders getting pulled out. .040 is a good bit.
243winxb
Member
my guess is burrs on the rim. Or try cleaning the gauge.
Seedtick
Member
Hey Randy,
If you turn the (rejects) brass around will the base go down into the gage any at all?
ST
If you turn the (rejects) brass around will the base go down into the gage any at all?
ST
R.W.Dale
Member
silly question but are the case necks sticking out the other end of the case gauge if your turn the problem cases and gauge over?
Seed Tick I tried turning the case on about 5 cases and it made no difference.
Krochus I looked at the other end and the ones that seated flush and they were also flush on the other end. The ones that did not go in flush were about the same distance from the end of the gage that they were not going in on the other end.
All the brass has been fired from my gun. Do you think a small base die would help?
Krochus I looked at the other end and the ones that seated flush and they were also flush on the other end. The ones that did not go in flush were about the same distance from the end of the gage that they were not going in on the other end.
All the brass has been fired from my gun. Do you think a small base die would help?
janobles14
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how about checking the rim, head and webbing. if you think the shoulders are fine then it could be stretching on the back end. also, are the shoulders sharpened or rounded any more than spec?
also, it looks like the "good" cases are military (crimped pocket). the thicker case walls may not be stretching as much as standard brass. any pattern to the misfits?
also, it looks like the "good" cases are military (crimped pocket). the thicker case walls may not be stretching as much as standard brass. any pattern to the misfits?
R.W.Dale
Member
do you have another .223 shellholder to try? One that might be a tad thinner?
I'm not an advocate of running out and buying SB dies as we've not had an issue such as this pop up on thr that we couldn't correct with the existing equipment. We just need to find the problem.
I'm not an advocate of running out and buying SB dies as we've not had an issue such as this pop up on thr that we couldn't correct with the existing equipment. We just need to find the problem.
janobles14 - The corners of the shoulder are sharp. As far as the cases themselves are consered, all of the defected one are a mixed headstamp. It just happened to be a military case in the picture. I am not sure how to measure the case to see if the lower part of the case is streched. There are no bright rings on the lower part of the case.
Krochus - This is the only shellholder that I have in that caliber. The dies are Hornady so I just bought a Hornady shellholder. I can go buy a box of factory ammo and see how they gage. Maybe it is a out of spec gage? I am not really having a lot of jams. Maybe 2-3%.
Krochus - This is the only shellholder that I have in that caliber. The dies are Hornady so I just bought a Hornady shellholder. I can go buy a box of factory ammo and see how they gage. Maybe it is a out of spec gage? I am not really having a lot of jams. Maybe 2-3%.
janobles14
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can you post a picture of a bad case and a good case side by side? label them so we will know. someone may be able to tell from that.
R.W.Dale
Member
Also try re-resizing a problem case and see if anything changes
Seedtick
Member
Randy, I wasn't clear.
Have you tried dropping the brass into the gage primer end first? I was just wondering if maybe there was a burr or a stretch or ??? It looks like it is hanging up right at the groove which is ~ .040/.045. Odd.
Dykem one and drop it in the gage and try to spin it while holding a little pressure on it and see if you can find where it is rubbing.
ST
Strongbad
Member
That's exactly what I was thinking. Also, unless I'm missing something my case gauges all have the groove on the mouth end, not the head, for trimming purposes. You stick the case into the gauge and whatever sticks out gets filed off. For a bottlenecked case though, AFAIK it wont accept them backwards.
What if you pull the expander rod and button and resize a case? Try that and tell me what happens.
Roccobro
Member
I found a couple that did that. It was not enough lube on the case, and the shell holder (lee) was torquing the rim just a little from the amount of force used. No problem running them through my LNL though.
How about if you run a nail or rasp file around the rim and try it again?
Justin
How about if you run a nail or rasp file around the rim and try it again?
Justin
243winxb
Member
223 Sizing.
Using different mixed brass, the load may be ok in one, but over max. in a different make of brass. If the web area is expanded this may keep the round from fitting the gauge. Does your resized brass fit the guns chamber? I do not know if small base dies size all the way to the extractor groove as i have never needed one. Measure the web area with a micrometer, compare the cases. High pressure proof loads in used brass, where the web has expanded, the brass should be roll sized before selling . Measure the web. Could be the Hornady die? I have shot 223 in many different firearms using a standard RCBS flrs die with no problems, so i would guess u dont need a small base die. RC'S photo has the web area marked on 223 brass. Ty Rc.
The web area is not sized by most standard dies. What is the load you are using?
Using different mixed brass, the load may be ok in one, but over max. in a different make of brass. If the web area is expanded this may keep the round from fitting the gauge. Does your resized brass fit the guns chamber? I do not know if small base dies size all the way to the extractor groove as i have never needed one. Measure the web area with a micrometer, compare the cases. High pressure proof loads in used brass, where the web has expanded, the brass should be roll sized before selling . Measure the web. Could be the Hornady die? I have shot 223 in many different firearms using a standard RCBS flrs die with no problems, so i would guess u dont need a small base die. RC'S photo has the web area marked on 223 brass. Ty Rc.
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Take one of the cases that doesn't fit the guage and smoke it with a candle flame.
Then insert it into the gage carefully, and carefully remove it.
Where the shiny spot is, is where your problem is.
Quite frankly, I don't think it is a bad die, because it obviously works just fine on some of the cases.
A bad die wouldn't work on any of them.
BTW: The two cases in your photo in post #19 sure looks like the one on the right that doesn't fit is longer.
Are you sure they are not just setting on the neck in the gage on the table due to a too long neck in the photo in post #7??
rc
Then insert it into the gage carefully, and carefully remove it.
Where the shiny spot is, is where your problem is.
Quite frankly, I don't think it is a bad die, because it obviously works just fine on some of the cases.
A bad die wouldn't work on any of them.
BTW: The two cases in your photo in post #19 sure looks like the one on the right that doesn't fit is longer.
Are you sure they are not just setting on the neck in the gage on the table due to a too long neck in the photo in post #7??
rc
Check the rim diameters. I had the same issue, and the ones that fully inserted into the gage measured less that .378, most were .375 The ones that didn't go all the way into the gage measured .378 or .379.
I'm betting the rims are slightly large.
I'm betting the rims are slightly large.
I measured the case on the web and it measured .374" and about 1/8" higher the case meaasured .3721". The spec. drawing in my manual shows a measurement of .3773 for the web area. Could this be my problem?
I stopped and got a box of factory loaded shells and they all dropped easily into the gage. So it has to be something about the way mine are being sized. The is "range find". I will try some new brass that I know is not worn out.
I stopped and got a box of factory loaded shells and they all dropped easily into the gage. So it has to be something about the way mine are being sized. The is "range find". I will try some new brass that I know is not worn out.
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Did you read post #22 about smoking a case?
rc
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