223Sizing problem

[Roccobro]

Or #20 about trimming the rim?

Justin

 

[Randy1911]

I did not have a candle so I used a match to smoke it. I put it in the gage and when it came out I could not see any marks. I don't know if that was because I used a match or it was not rubbing. I only smoked it from the middle of the case to the web. Did I do it wrong? It was hard to rub off the soot after I did it. If I have to use a candle tell me and I will go buy one.

 

[Deavis]

Common problem I've noted with a Lyman gage or any other tight gage at the rim. If you measure the ones that don't go in you will find that they are larger. You can group them into three groups.

G1 - gage no issues
G2 - gage with slight pressure, i.e. push the rim in and it "snaps" into place
G3 - won't gage at all

If you took the G3 and G1, measured the rim you would find a difference, on average of about 0.002-0.003". You know it is the rim because when you reverse the casing, it won't enter the gage. The SAAMI max for the 223 rim is 0.3780" and the chamber, and at the breech face the chamber is cut to 0.3804". Your G3s probably measure around 0.3765-0.3775", which is larger than your Lyman gage will take. Your Lyman will accept 0.3570-0.3755 (G1) and witha little help 0.3755-0.3760" (G2).

If you dropped those into a Dillon gage, where the rim location diameter is larger, they would all gage. My Lyman and Dillon gage measure about 0.003" different in the area of concern (0.045" deep into the gage). You can cut a chamfer on your Lyman gage to take care of it OR you can just set your seating based on good rim size and move on with it. I shot over 100 mixed headstamp brass in each of those three groups. Every single one of them chambered and fired in my AR because the the bolt diameter for the rim is ample to handle even slightly oversized rims. Your AR may be different, but I bet if you shot them it would be a non-issue.

Measure your rims, I'm almost positive this is your problem. It has nothing to do with your sizing die, so before you chuck it break out those calipers. Remember your gage will be slightly different than mine and the acceptable range may be different but you should be able to create three groups of brass to mimic this problem.

 

[FM12]

Try this,"nothing to lose" When you size a case, lower the ram, re lube (i nf needed) and turn the case 180 degrees, and resize again. try that. See if you can borrow some small base dies. I know of a lot of nay sayers about them, but then again,may be just the trick you need. let us know what the final solution is. Cases need trimming?

 

[243winxb]

I measured the case on the web and it measured .374" and about 1/8" higher the case meaasured .3721". The spec. drawing in my manual shows a measurement of .3773 for the web area. Could this be my problem?

My drawings shows a maximum of .376" or .3772" at the web/extractor groove. Your web area seems to be OK, unless its out of round/oval.

 

[243winxb]

If a case is fired in a bolt gun where the bolt face is not square to the bore, you get a crooked case. Sizing the brass will not fix this. This is very very rare. I have seen an oval chamber that needed a small base sizing die so the rounds would chamber, also very rare/not common. Maybe your should just trash the brass that will not fit in the gauge. Could the press be springing on sizing. "C" type press can do this. Not common on a little 223, but if not enough lube on case, might happen??

 

[janobles14]

i still think its the web. or a lack of lube on the body causing an odd expander extraction. i would second the motion to size thenb spin 180 and size again.

 

[janobles14]

a match is fine. just smoke the whole case. you are looking for areas that are rubbed or streaked.

 

[Deavis]

Go measure your case rims and post the results. It will take you less than 2 minutes and I'm almost positive it will yield the results I discussed. The fact that some brass gages and some doesn't makes a sizing issue highly unlikely given that all the brass was shot in your gun (according to your post) and rules out most of these exotic problems being tossed out. I am pretty confident that you do not have a sizing issue, you have a rim size issue and a tight gage.

 

[mmbasser]

Apparently, some people are hard to help.

1) Did you try inserting the cases into the gage rim first? What was the result?

2) Do you have calipers to measure the rims? If not, don't even consider reloading!

3) If you do have calipers, what is the diameter if your gage at the large end....I'm betting it's .378"

4) What is the rim diameter of the cases that won't go all the way in? I'm betting they are .378+ with burrs.

Fix? Use some sand paper to reduce the burrs on thise oversized rims...or see how they chamber in your rifle. If they chamber just fine....load em up and shoot em!

I had the exact same issue with Privi-Partisan brass, its G2G, just could use some rim treatment.

Enjoy!

 

[Sport45]

^^^^

As many have tried to say, there are probably extractor burs on the rim that prevent the case from dropping in. Have you tried pushing one in to see if it snaps into the case gauge?

I keep a small diamond needle file handy when I'm gaging .223 cases. When one doesn't drop in easily I find a quick trip around the rim with the needle file usually solves the problem.

 

[Randy1911]

Sorry for not responding sooner

I have had a busy day today. I tried to insert the case into the gage rim first and it fit. They measured mostly .377 I did manage to get to the range today. I shot all of the ones that would not gage. They all fired without a hitch. I guess I am making a mountain out of a mole hill. How they shoot is the proof in the pudding. I did buy some factory rounds and tried them in the gage. They fit perfect.

 

[Seedtick]

I shot all of the ones that would not gage. They all fired without a hitch.

^Hey that's the main thing right there.^

Did you keep the rejects separate? I'd like to know if they will gage after you size them this time.

ST

 

[243winxb]

I ask in post 21>

Does your resized brass fit the guns chamber?

I shot all of the ones that would not gage. They all fired without a hitch.

< This is proof that your chamber is the best gauge.

 

[243winxb]

Your chamber is your best gauge.

Did you keep the rejects separate? I'd like to know if they will gage after you size them this time.

Do they now fit the gauge before sizing & after sizing?? My guess, is yes. Range Brass/pickups fired in a different gun, will expand in your chamber, then spring back, conforming closer to your chamber fixing minor problems. This works best with a bolt action where you have leverage to get the case into the chamber. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=493359

 

[Randy1911]

Even after firing and resizing they still gaged the same way. I am about ready to quit using the gage. I will just shoot them. I am going to my reloading store today and see if he has any brass. It could be it is just the brass is bad. Like I said, the factory rounds gage okay even after loading.

 

[RainDodger]

I had your precise problem with .30-'06 cases. My problem was slight dings in the rim of the cases that you could hardly even see. It drove me crazy trying to find the problem. Finally I tried taking the cases that didn't fit and chucking them in my drill press very lightly (by hand). Then I touched the rims with a fine file - just enough to deburr them. Voila! They slid right into the case gauge perfectly. That saved almost all of my cases that were binding.

 

[Randy1911]

I just took the brass out of the tumbler that I bought this morning. It is once-fired military, mostly LC,. I sized one and put it into my gage. It fit perfectly except for needing trimmed. I guess the reason the brass was left at the range for me to find was because it was worn out. So the next time I go shoot it, I will leave it for someone else to find and pull their hair out over. This is the first time I have ever had a problem with the brass I find at the range. Lesson learned.

 

[Deavis]

They measured mostly .377

Which is right on the edge of what that gage is going to accept but you chamber will accept them. Those cases shouldn't insert into the gage backwards, they should just barely sit inside the opening due to the angle on the rim unless you force them in. If you want to put htis to bed, go measure your gage opening. You have a rim issue, not a sizing issue. Most importantly, relax, it isn't a big deal and simple to fix. Chuck the brass, touch up the rim, or just shoot it.

 

[Randy1911]

Deavis,

I plan on just shooting them However, they did fit into the gage about a 1/16" with having to force them. I might save them and only use them when I know that I am going to lose the brass.

 

[rfwobbly]

Those sound like cases specifically meant for hunting in the piney woods.

 

[Sport45]

The part that doesn't fit in the gage (the rim) doesn't go in the chamber anyway so testing in the gun's chamber tells you nothing. If you don't debur the rim so that they will drop into the gage then the gage doesn't tell you anything either so you may as well quit using it.

When the case hangs up on the rim like that you don't know if it is sized properly and I can tell you from experience it is no fun to pull a round stuck in the chamber. (There's just no way to look "cool" while slamming the rifle butt on the bench while pulling on the charging handle... )

 

[243winxb]

Even after firing and resizing they still gaged the same way.

Then the rim or web area might be the problem. My gauge has only ever found 2 bad rounds, both were a rim problem. A metal file took care of them.