.22lr MEGATHREAD

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I love reading all of the speculation of why we don't have .22 ammo in large quantities at .05 a round anymore. It's seems to be almost a pastime for some. You couldn't get a thread to 46 pages without it.

All I know is it isn't available and hasn't been for a long time. Will it be available? That's anyone's guess.

Bottom line is if you want to buy it at the going rate then buy it. If not stand on the sideline and wait for the good old days.

.22 is nothing more than a recreational cartridge. I can't see hoarding that. I prefer to hoard primers, powder and lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GE9P56tK4o#t=26
 
I love reading all of the speculation of why we don't have .22 ammo in large quantities at .05 a round anymore. It's seems to be almost a pastime for some. You couldn't get a thread to 46 pages without it.

All I know is it isn't available and hasn't been for a long time. Will it be available? That's anyone's guess.

For a little while last month Cabela's had Federal bulk packs for 5.5 cents per round, shipped, including a new 50 caliber GI ammo can. I know they had it because they shipped me one after I saw it and placed my order ($116.59 shipped for four 550 round Federal bulk packs and the ammo can)


It's out there...the supply just isn't high enough to satisfy all buyers.
 
You have seen hundreds of millions of rounds of .22lr sitting idly being 'hoarded' in warehouses?

When, where, what ammo, and how much?

You seem really determined to try and force me to convince you.

When? The past 21 days.

Where? I will not divulge the retailer as my intention is not to bring them ill will or cause them to catch flack for their business practices.

What ammo? While not all inclusive, I saw Remington in several varieties, Winchester Super X, Federal Champion and Match, CCI Blazer, Mini Mags, and a blue 500 round bulk pack that I have never seen before.
 
.22 is nothing more than a recreational cartridge. I can't see hoarding that. I prefer to hoard primers, powder and lead.

An interesting viewpoint.

I rather suspect that the lowly .22 has taken more game and put more food on the table than any other round out there.

I also rather suspect that the lowly .22 has had more rounds expended honing firearms skills than any other round out there.

Of course, I don't have any actual statistics for either of these, but personally I'm going with my gut on this one.

Not a bad history for a "recreational cartridge".

;)
 
At least one major retailer is hoarding hundreds of millions of rounds of .22lr in its warehouses, withholding it from most of the country so it can be diverted to new retail store openings. As for the gougers, they were out in force at a recent store opening trying everything they could to purchase more than their 2,800 round limit. The same ammo is now posted on the local classifieds at twice what they paid for it.

Hoarding? Not the best choice of words there. The practice is nothing new. When Cabelas opened their new store in the Columbus, Ohio area they had a grand opening. Cabela's club members were invited to the store on a Friday evening the day before the Saturday grand opening. That was March of 2013. March of 2013 things were tight but they had well stocked shelves of ammunition including 22LR (with limits) as well as many reloading components. I know because I was there.

So what? The fact that they channeled inventory (which they own) to a new store grand opening (that they own) is hardly hoarding. Maybe good business practice but hardly hoarding.

Hoarding disorder is a persistent difficulty discarding or parting with possessions because of a perceived need to save them. A person with hoarding disorder experiences distress at the thought of getting rid of the items. Excessive accumulation of items, regardless of actual value, occurs.

They plan to sell them not keep them.

Hundreds of millions is a pretty big number. Might that be a little much? Would you suggest a major retail chain that sells sporting goods (ammunition) host a grand opening with nothing to sell? I just see this as good business practice, certainly not hoarding by any definition. I find it humorous that you won't name the chain? Not a big deal at all.

Oh wait, on another note I sometimes get down to that Cabelas store since we have family down there in Worthington, Ohio. Last visit I found a nice 22 revolver in the Gun Library. There was no 22 LR out on the shelves but I asked. Yes, they had some 22 LR and yes, if you bought a 22 caliber gun which isn't unusual so I was able to buy a brick of 22 LR with the revolver I bought. So were they "hoarding" by selling only to those buying a gun? Sometimes there is 22 LR on the shelves and sometimes not.

Ron
 
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Hundreds of millions of rounds is a LOT of ammo.

Example math: 150 million rounds...limit of 3 boxes per customer...every customer buys a 500 round brick for their "box"...that's 66,667 customers who can purchase 1,500 rounds each.

But a lot of that isn't going to be sold in bricks of 500, it's going to be (CCI MM, CCI SV, etc) in boxes of 50-100. Let's say it's a three box limit with a box of 100, a box of 325, and a box of 500. That's 925 rounds per customer. A mere 100 millions rounds would provide the limit to 108,108 customers.

Do we really think a single retailer is providing the .22lr purchase limit at their grand openings for over 100,000 customers?
 
For a little while last month Cabela's had Federal bulk packs for 5.5 cents per round, shipped, including a new 50 caliber GI ammo can. I know they had it because they shipped me one after I saw it and placed my order ($116.59 shipped for four 550 round Federal bulk packs and the ammo can)

Good catch. Did you have an alert on your cell phone?
 
Good catch. Did you have an alert on your cell phone?

No. Either they emailed me or somebody posted it to a forum, I don't remember which.

I never used any of the ammo seek/find/etc type pages, page monitors, phone notifications, etc, just emails and reading forums/threads where people share.
 
I found a guy on the inside of Area 51 to sell me some govt hoarded 22 WMR which I necked down and resized to 22 LR for about $0.01 /round. Boy am I smart and make you lazy whining retail buyers of the cheapest round ever made look silly.

Sorry I don't get along with broke people. Mods please close this boring thread cuz I won already.
 
I rather suspect that the lowly .22 has taken more game and put more food on the table than any other round out there.

Could be.

I always used a shotgun for small game. Works real well on birds too. I never did like to wait until they stopped moving. ;)
 
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Hundreds of millions of rounds is a LOT of ammo.

Indeed it is. Just 3-4 million rounds on pallets is quite a sight.

Example math: 150 million rounds...limit of 3 boxes per customer...every customer buys a 500 round brick for their "box"...that's 66,667 customers who can purchase 1,500 rounds each.

But a lot of that isn't going to be sold in bricks of 500, it's going to be (CCI MM, CCI SV, etc) in boxes of 50-100. Let's say it's a three box limit with a box of 100, a box of 325, and a box of 500. That's 925 rounds per customer. A mere 100 millions rounds would provide the limit to 108,108 customers.

I like your math and logic, but I didn't say 150 million went to a grand opening. Try approximately 3-5 million per store, most bulk, some smaller quantities. Apply your logic and the numbers become more reasonable. And quantities do trickle onto store shelves from time to time, but 10-15K doesn't last long in this market.

Do we really think a single retailer is providing the .22lr purchase limit at their grand openings for over 100,000 customers?
Why not? Do you think there is only one store opening per year?

You must be a cooperate executive. I fully understand your predicament.
Or maybe I'm just a person whose moral compass points in the right direction. A rare find with the anonymity provided by the internet.

I shared this because it was something I hadn't considered and other retailers are likely doing the same thing. It is a business strategy, but it influences equilibrium and can drive up prices.
 
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Or maybe I'm just a person whose moral compass points in the right direction. A rare find with the anonymity provided by the internet.

And maybe I'm Bruce Springsteen. If I say it someone might want me to give some evidence that I am actually who I say I am, otherwise it doesn't mean much. Warp told you where he found his ammo so I'm good with his claim. If you just want to say things that we find incredible, then we just have to chalk it up in the BS column.
 
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and the only reason it will be that "low" is cause so many have wised up, gotten into bullet casting, reloading, are using airsoft and .177 for most of what they used to do with .22lr. Once you can effectively control recoil, most gunhandling can be practiced with airsoft, and precision work can be practiced with .177 pellet guns. I like fast draw, mag swaps, use of cover, weak hand, etc, drills in my garage, (airsoft) instead of a trip to the range. I"ve got enough .22 rds to say "keep em" to the gougers, for a long, long time. :)

I just paid 5.5 cents each, shipped, with ammo can, for bulk last month. How will we not see bulk until it's more expensive than the CCI SV that Walmart had a week ago?
 
If you just want to say things that we find incredible, then we just have to chalk it up in the BS column.
Whether or not his claim is true (companywide) I can't say, but I have seen cell phone pictures taken by an outside contractor of a particular chain's 22 ammo in one store's warehouse.

It was a LOT of 22 ammo for one store (large pallets of it), and it's my understanding they dribble it out in order to keep customers coming back to the store.

Who's to say some of that ammo was also not being saved / shipped to other stores (such as grand openings)?

I'm thinking I may know the chain he's talking about?
 
My guess is that chain of stores with pallets of ammo does huge volumes of internet sales. That chain of stores also will have several grand openings each year. Also realize that face to face sales of ammo is becoming obsolete. A majority of ammo sales will be via internet.
 
My guess is that chain of stores with pallets of ammo does huge volumes of internet sales. That chain of stores also will have several grand openings each year. Also realize that face to face sales of ammo is becoming obsolete. A majority of ammo sales will be via internet.

We need a Pallet Detective (or several) !

And we all know where .

Can we do it ?
 
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My guess is that chain of stores with pallets of ammo does huge volumes of internet sales.
That may be, but I'd think their 'Net sales would be handled by a central warehouse?

It seems to be pretty inefficient to have each particular store handle 'Net sales, especially on such a small scale per customer.
 
you won't see it because it's a loss leader at 6c per rd, given the cost of lead, brass, tooling/production, etc. The ammo companies have seen the writing on the wall. Why should they sell it for less than people will pay?

Won't see what?

This 5.5 cents per round delivered from last month? (plus an ammo can)

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That may be, but I'd think their 'Net sales would be handled by a central warehouse?

It seems to be pretty inefficient to have each particular store handle 'Net sales, especially on such a small scale per customer.

The post of millions of rounds on pallets was in reference to a central warehouse. ..and ammo is on the internet not on the store shelves.
 
At least one major retailer is hoarding hundreds of millions of rounds of .22lr in its warehouses, withholding it from most of the country so it can be diverted to new retail store openings. As for the gougers, they were out in force at a recent store opening trying everything they could to purchase more than their 2,800 round limit. The same ammo is now posted on the local classifieds at twice what they paid for it.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument here, that "hundreds of millions of rounds" equates to 500 million rounds. What you are saying is that "one major retailer" has hoarded 10% of the annual output of .22LR being manufactured in the United States?

For what purpose?


Not that I have to prove anything to you, but I'd consider firsthand knowledge of it proof enough. This is what is happening with one major retailer and it is effecting supply across the country. I stand to gain or lose nothing by sharing what I saw and I could care less whether you believe it.

I'm not sure what part of stating facts based upon direct observations you perceive as rage. Tell the class a little about this "free market" of which you seem to be a self proclaimed expert?

If you don't have anything to "prove", then why are you posting it?

And even if this one "major retailer" is hoarding .22LR, guess what? It would NOT affect the supply across the country because they can only hoard what the manufacturers are sending THEM. Such hoarding would have absolutely no effect on the supply to the rest of the retailers across the country.


When? The past 21 days.

Where? I will not divulge the retailer as my intention is not to bring them ill will or cause them to catch flack for their business practices.

If you won't tell us who it is, then what's the point?


I like your math and logic, but I didn't say 150 million went to a grand opening. Try approximately 3-5 million per store, most bulk, some smaller quantities. Apply your logic and the numbers become more reasonable. And quantities do trickle onto store shelves from time to time, but 10-15K doesn't last long in this market.

I shared this because it was something I hadn't considered and other retailers are likely doing the same thing. It is a business strategy, but it influences equilibrium and can drive up prices.

As a "business strategy", this one would suck. If the purpose of this strategy is to drive prices up, then it fails because retail prices aren't being raised. It fails twice as much when you consider that "hoarding" of this ammo in warehouses costs money. Money which, evidently, isn't being recouped by higher prices.

And let's assume this "major retailer" you're not divulging the name of is Walmart. Walmart has over 3,000 super centers in the U.S. Assuming 4 million rounds per store (an average of the 3-5 you cited), that would be 12 billion rounds hoarded. That's about 2.5 YEARS of total annual production of .22LR in the U.S.

Assuming it's Academy you're talking about, there are 138 stores. That adds up to 552 million rounds. Which would mean you'd be telling us that a chain that sold $3.7 billion in retail goods last year is intentionally paying storage space to sit on half a billion rounds of .22LR ammunition?

Assuming it's Cabela's, there are about 50 or so. That adds up to 200 million rounds hoarded for a sporting goods store with a booming ammunition sales section. Doesn't seem like good business to me to pay storage for "hoarding" something they could be selling.


If you've got something to put out, then put it out, give us something to investigate on our own, and be done with it. Otherwise, it's all baseless hearsay.
 
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It ain't the shortage of .22 LR that's causing the problem, it's the shortage of tin foil. We have thousands of conspiracy theorists who are convinced the ammo shortage is a plot, and they're wearing out their tinfoil hats faster than they can buy new ones.
 
It ain't the shortage of .22 LR that's causing the problem, it's the shortage of tin foil. We have thousands of conspiracy theorists who are convinced the ammo shortage is a plot, and they're wearing out their tinfoil hats faster than they can buy new ones.
it's the aliens and the shriners I tells ya the aliens and the shriners... Were do you think they get those tiny cars made by tiny hands that need tiny guns, With tiny trunks that will only hold a bulk amount of tiny ammo :evil:
 
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