Meijers in BLOINGBROOK, IL made a big boo boo

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Having worked and knowing people who do so at multiple levels at these big retail chains, I believe the policy (even if it is not explicitly stated at the counter) is: "We'll eat any price mistakes that are our fault." It costs more to [mess] around with every price discrepency than to just give the customer the low price and move the product out the door, so the company suffers no net economic harm. The original poster confirmed this policy when he asked the checker about the price, and the checker said, "That's the price in the computer". (Translation for those who don't work on the front lines of retail: "The computer's price is final and we're not supposed to mess with it or bring it to anyone's attention, even if the price is incorect. You're welcome to the lower price)".

Unless someone can get confirmation from Meijer that their policy is customers must pay for company mistakes in pricing, and state law permits this, then you have no right to critisize the original poster.
 
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I just realized the person who questioned whether something could be "a little wrong" thought I meant "something that was only slightly wrong." I meant "something that is definitely wrong, but is not a big deal."

It is interesting to me how many folks on here can find justifications for this. "It's too much trouble, I'm in a hurry, it's their fault, it doesn't really cost them anything." The idea that there is no economic loss to the store is an assumption used to justify the behavior. How can we really know, especially when the original poster "loaded up"?
 
The bottom line is, is it unethical to enter into a contract if the deal is bad for the other party? I say no. It is not our place to determine if the deal is bad for the other party. They could have any number of reasons for making the offer they did, and it's immaterial to any question of ethics.

Is it wrong for a collector to buy accounts receivable for 10 cents on the dollar? Is the the collector screwing the original creditor out of 90 cents?

If someone's pet cat has a litter of kittens and offers them free to a good home, is it wrong to take one? To take all of them? Are you screwing them out of a fair price for the kittens?
 
The bottom line is, is it unethical to enter into a contract if the deal is bad for the other party?

That's only the "bottom line" if both parties agree to the terms of the contract. The cashier in this case was apparently not qualified to negotiate the contract, only to honor the terms as he/she knew them (what the computer told them).

So the next question is, was the price set intentionally, or was it an error? In the title, the OP suggests that it was an error, and he (the OP) knew it.

And the final question, still not satisfactorily answered as far as I am concerned, is whether a representative of management actually signed off on the bulk purchase. It took a long time for the OP to come out and say that the manager OK'd the deal. I don't think a competent manager would do that, if the price were in error. He might agree to sell him five or ten boxes at that price, but a whole pallet?
 
>a little bit wrong...

No! The OP was not wrong at all. Not even a little bit.

>"We'll eat any price mistakes that are our fault."

Yes!

My brother found a few bottles of wine at what he knew to be their cost price, no markup. He asked the girl behind the counter, she insisted it was the right price, he bought the wine, *knowing that the price was wrong*.

The next week the boss (who was away for the weekend when the transaction went down) phoned and said "you owe us money".

Now, we know that this fellow is entitled to his money. That's fair. But we would probably have had a higher opinion of him had he phoned and said "I saw that you got a really good deal the other day, my mistake, hope you enjoy the wine, please come support me again". In the end, my brother would probably have ended up spending more money there than otherwise, because of what would have been regarded as good service.

Point is, retail stores should and do have the policy where they rather take the knock caused by their own incompetence (which is what the OP case was) in order to keep the customer happy. In this case, we have a very happy OP.

IMO of course :)
 
I was told long ago that a man's true character is what he does when no one is looking (or in this case, paying attention).

And, I guess, that says it all.

So, what do you do when the cards are not in your favor? What happens when the right thing to do is the HARD thing to do?

How would YOU feel if it was YOUR store?

I will not condemn or comment; heaven knows that I have enough to answer for in my lifetime and enough work to keep myself straight.

In the end, what you do is your choice; you are the one who has to look at yourself in the mirror.

I know what I would do.
 
i look preety good in the mirror too, ladies seem to like me. i do ok bottom line is im happy the end im not going to share anymore of the story cause personaly i dont really care much what any of you think about me. i did the right thing and what i did with most the ammo was even better. this will be my last responce on this thread.
 
A couple of things to point out. Retail business make pricing errors all the time, to the tune of over 20 billion dollars a year in their favor, this is why they like the current automated pricing systems it is easy for them to make mistakes and they always come out ahead at the end of the day.

The next thing what gives anybody the right or moral authority to decide how much a business should charge for its own stuff.

Once he asked the girl if the price was correct, and she said yes then it is not theft and it is not immoral to buy as much as you want. It was brought to the attention of the store that it might not be the correct price but the store said it was, and at that point it was the correct price.

You could call it theft or immoral had they given him back incorrect change or forgot to ring something up and he realized it while he was still in the store and still kept it, but not because you believe the store sold him something that you believe was too cheap.
 
I had a similar event happen to me and my father at sears about 12 years ago. we found a horribly beat up box containg a 300 or so piece craftsman mechanics tool set with a large black "25" written on the box and a clearance tag stuck to it with no price written on it. we took it to the register and the sales clerk scanned it and it came up as an invalid barcode so he called his manager who took one split second look at the box and said it costs 25 dollars. my father asked him if he was sure as he thought it would be much more expensive. the manager said yep its 25 dollars. (set was retailing for several hundred new and this one was only missing a few sockets)

we purchased it and went on our way.
after getting home we found a note inside the box from one of the employees instructing another employee to mark the set down 25 PERCENT OFF and put a clearance tag on it. apparently the employee simply wrote "25" on the box and left it at that.

Yes we did kinda feel bad about it but what could we do? drive all the way back and try to pay the difference? they made a mistake and we did what we could to try to correct it for them and they didnt want to hear it.
 
(Koos Custodiet): The OP was not wrong at all. Not even a little bit.

later...

Now, we know that this fellow is entitled to his money. That's fair.

You've contradicted yourself.


(gaudio5)i look preety good in the mirror too, ladies seem to like me.

Well, that's relevant.

im not going to share anymore of the story cause personaly i dont really care much what any of you think about me.

If you say so. Wait a minute, there's more to the story?

...and what i did with most the ammo was even better.

...donated it to the local Boy Scouts, I would hope. Now THAT would be a happy ending.
 
I reiterate my position stated before: OP's legal, moral, and ethical obligations were satisfied when he asked to check the price.

I've been on both ends of this problem. As a retail store owner, I grossly underquoted a price to a customer over the phone... about two bucks for an item which should have retailed for about twenty five or so. I discovered my error between the time the customer called and he showed up.

I felt I was obligated to complete the deal at the quoted price. I cheerfully allowed the customer to clean me out of the five items I had in stock. And he was a repeat customer after that. Before letting his "fingers do the walking" over the phone, he had never heard of my store.

On the other hand, I've had things ring up on other retailers' registers which were much lower than the tag on the shelf read. In at least one instance, when I pointed out this "error," the clerk said that the computer price was for an in-store unadvertised special for the next day and the price had been entered for the sale already late that afternoon.

Apparently, management was involved in the OP's transacation. (It matters not that the OP did not mention this until later in the thread.) After all, the question arises, "how far up the chain of command does one have to go to confirm the price?" Regional Office? Corporate Headquarters? The CEO? At what point up this chain does it suddenly become "ethical?"

And we have no information on what the manager's motivation was. For all we know, the manager may have been looking for a major goofup by the party who entered the prices in order to discipline that party. Speculation? Yes, but we are not privy to that, as we are not privy to the possibiility that there was going to be an undavertised in-store special the next day.

Most likely? That the manager felt obligated to complete the transaction at the (computer-)quoted price, just as I did in my real-life example in my own retail-owner experience. I have little doubt, though it is speculation, that this was the case.

But we are not, nor was the OP, privy to these possibilities. I repeat that his moral, legal, and ethical obligations were satisfied when he asked about the possible error.

There seems to be a problem with the quantity involved, but at root, the quantity does not enter into the ethical question --as if there was a borderline that can be established rationally: at three boxes, it's OK. At four boxes, it's unethical.

Or at 987 boxes, it's unethical, at 986 boxes, it's OK.

I reiterate that the OP's obligation ended when he had the clerk check the price. I myself would have bought probably more than I needed or could use after the price check, and left the store in high spirits over my good luck.

But I would not have had an ethical problem with it.

Also sprach 230RN.
 
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mnrivrat:

self-righteous: excessively or hypocritically pious; "a sickening sanctimonious smile"

sanctimonious: making a hypocritical show of religious devotion, piety, righteousness, etc.

Get the point?
 
Interesting thread, here. Perhaps someone should start a poll about this.
Actually I'm surprised it hasn't been closed with all the rather low road insults. One side accusing the other of being unethical, the other making the accusation of holier-than-thou. Obviously we have differences of perspective here.

I'm not condemning someone who would clean them out, just saying that I would not. No, I'm not jealous of the good deal you got (though who doesn't like a good deal?); nor do I consider myself to be the paragon of morality and virtue.:rolleyes:. I was just raised a certain way and my conscience wouldn't let me do it. For some people, life is really about more than money. I'm responsible for the way I live my life, you are the only one responsible for yours. We all make our own decisions.

I'm still surprised that, as far off-topic as this has gotten, this thread has not been closed.
 
The one thing that occurred to me as I read these posts is that, has anyone thought what the ripple effect of this monetary loss might be? I worked in retail for nearly 20 years, and at different times, for several large chains that used to sell firearms and ammo. The two operative words here are "used to". In each case, the store chains usually decided that there was too much employee theft, too much hassle with the paperwork and the BATFE, and/or too little profit margin to justify selling firearms and ammo anymore. Some day, someone at district or region is going to notice these pricing errors, just as the OP did, and bring it to their superior's attention. And in the interest of corporate profitability or shrinkage control, someone else higher up may decide that it's just not worth carrying these items anymore. And just like that, another retail source is gone. No morality debate here; just that in taking advantage of the pricing error, you might be killing the goose that lays the golden(bullet) egg.
 
Ok, count me as one of the low-life scoundrels.

I'm a scoundrel who takes advantage of "fluke" events as a bubble in the space-time continuum that just happened to favor me on this particular go-round. If you're telling me it's "3 for .99" instead of $3.99, who am I to tell you how to run your business?

However, I do have a strong belief in karma, and I know that nothing in life is "free". Did my employer pay me sub-standard wages or expect more from me than my pay warranted. Sure, that happens sometimes. Did the banks charge me unfair fees and even refuse to admit to a mistake THEY made? Uh-huh, that happens too. Did the federal reserve pump money into the economy and rob me of the value of the dollars I earned, yes they certainly did. Did the oil companies conspire to raise the price of fuel I MUST buy by refusing to build refineries and causing artificial "shortages" - I'm convinced they did. I am the tail end of a long line of scounderels watching out for their own interest, apparently.

Despite this, I try to be the LAST of that line by taking the good that comes my way and passing it on. I over-tip. I make gifts, sometimes substantial gifts, to worthy individuals. I try to give good service to my employer. I'm generous with my time and affection to my wife. I pet dogs and offer help when people need it. I try to make the world a better place.

Oddly enough, despite my occasional "scoundrelness" the Universe has seen fit to bless me with good health, prosperity, love and affection, and a satisfying life. I think if I were violating any serious karmic rule, it would have caught up with me by now. Or maybe, just maybe, I'm doing enough good to more than offset any ill my actions might incur. I do know that I sleep fine at night, don't sweat the bank balance, and have the love and respect of those I care about.

So if you want to have an intellectual discussion about "right" and "wrong" and how your pappy raised you (as if your entire self-esteem hinged on that) then go ahead. Most of us will muddle on in our moral-ambiguity-morass and enjoy the happiness of living a worthy life and enjoying the satisfaction of a lucky break that occasionally comes our way. We do just enough "wrong" to keep us humble and remind us we're not sitting up on any kind of high horse from which to judge others.
 
"An inordinate amount of time and energy"? Oh please, it would have taken a couple of minutes to get a manager over. But it sounds like the OP didn't even try. That would have messed up his plan.

A couple of minutes to get a manager in a retail store? It can take 30 minutes around here- If you're lucky. It wouldn't have made a bit of difference, anyway. The price in the computer IS the price they will sell it for, if it is lower. Your choice? Either buy it for that, or go somewhere else.

At a lot of retail stores, the prices are entered at the store, not corporate. You can go to the same store in different areas and get different prices on the same item. Markdowns may be dictated by the corporate office, but entered into the system locally. If that was the case, somebody would get reamed, or fired. The fact that the manager verified the price is strange. Maybe he didn't have a clue, either. That would make sense. Most of the managers I've seen in retail aren't as bright as the people they manage.
 
I don't think one has to offer any "counterbalances" or posit any "kharmic returns" to any supposed "scurrility" in this case.

And one does not need to offer any "qualifications" or "credentials" as to how ethical or noble one is otherwise.

Because there was nothing ethically, morally, or legally wrong with Gaudio45's actions in this matter.

Before commenting, please read post 136 carefully.

There. I said it, and I ain't takin' it back.
 
"Doing the right thing" isn't all it's cracked to be many times. I was paid 40 hours over my normal pay. Evidently 2 supervisors paid me. My normal supervisor paid me all my overtime along with the normal 40 hrs and one of the others paid me a normal 40 also. No vacation was taken, no personal time, etc. I reported it to LRO. They said it would be taken out the next week. Fine, but it didn't happen. I went back to LRO and told them they had better take it out rather quickly because our overtime was drying up and it would be a bit of a hardship on a 40 hr check. They understood and assured me it would be done this time. It wasn't. 2 weeks later as our first 40 hr week set in, it was finally taken. The following week! I got nothing. When I reported the absolute incompetance of payroll to the union I was told if it wasn't taken out within 2 weeks it was mine. (contract) I told them it was taken out after a month. They said there was probably nothing they could do about it now. I swore then it was the last time they would ever find out about an overpayment from me. There has been a few smaller ones in the past. I've kept them all and slept rather well at night.

I would have considered this good fortune.
 
Test

Tho I made a single post stating MY opinion & said "finis," I can't resist . . .

IF I offered my pristine Colt Python for sale at, say, $100.00 (and I AM NOT DOING SO!!!), I wonder how many folks who have responded to this thread, condemning the gentleman's actions would:

a) Tell me "That's wrong! The gun is worth more than that!"

or

b) Send me a PM & a copy of their neighborhood FFL holder's license.

Just curious . . .
 
koja48: ...I wonder how many folks who have responded to this thread, condemning the gentleman's actions would:

a) Tell me "That's wrong! The gun is worth more than that!"

I've done exactly that in the last two weeks in a PM to Dark Tranquility in regard to the NAA Guardian .380 he was selling on this site.

Many in this thread have assumed that the OP asked to see a manager at the time of purchase or had a manager present during the loading of the pallet. It was not until the 97th post that he claims a manager was involved.
 
OK guys, I just went to both Meijer stores I drive past to get to work and ran all their ammo thru the price-check scanners... no luck for me :(


Although I did find that they carry .44 Magnum pistol ammo in Rem UMC yellow 50-rd boxes, WWB (well, white) 50-rd boxes, and Remington Green/yellow 25-rd boxes. All the same weight and type bullet. All together jumbled up on their ammo shelf with the same shelf tag.

Interestingly, all three different bar codes scan as the same item, at the SAME PRICE of $29.97 per box.

So, they want the same for a 25-rd box as a 50-rd box.

Anyone think someone would be in for a screwing if they picked up the wrong box from the shelf and thought they would get a break on a smaller box?

Anyone of you worthy, honorable, honest, ethical, upstanding and vocal citizens who are berating the OP want to volunteer to buy the 25-rd boxes of Remington .44-mag for $29.97 a box and leave the 50-rd boxes of UMC or WWB for the same price?

Methinks Meijer can afford to sell Gauido5 some cheap ammo.
Just wish they had the same mistake at my local store, I had the truck backed up to the doors and ready...

Hey Gaudio, did you get my payment yet on those P22 mags?
 
I am not perfect either, but I try to raise my children in whats right and wrong. A good moral guideline in my book is to ask what would a boy scout do in this situation? I think you know the answer to that one.

In my opinion it was not wrong to purchase the limited quantity you were planning to buy in the beginning at the reduced rate (1 or 2 boxes). Where you lost me ethically and where I agree with cnorman18 is when you cleaned the store out at that price. That was just plain taking advantage of someone, no matter how you rationalize it. And then to come here and brag about it really shows a lack of character in my humble opinion.


Quote cnorman18"Everybody screws up; and everybody also hopes that others will have compassion on them, and not take their screwup as an opportunity to take advantage of them--let alone to take them for as much damage as possible, and then go and crow about it proudly."
 
Ok, I will post once and only once in this thread. If someone wishes to discuss my opinions or observations further, feel free to PM me.

I find it interesting that all these people are so quick to scream about ethics.

When you take a step back and look at any business, ethics don't really come into play as often as one would think. For instance, it costs 5 cents to make a product, it is then sold "wholesale" to a distributor at 50 cents. It is then sold to the consumer for $5.00. By the time it is in the consumers hands, it is already being sold at 100 times its actual worth. In the business world, that is simply called profit.

If it is looked at from an "absolute ethics" standpoint, it is wrong because it is drastically overpricing an object for the sole purpose of financial gain, or in the terminology style that has been used in this thread when referring to taking advantage of big businesses, these big businesses are "sticking it to the little guy" for as much money as they think they can get. Again, that is simply business. The so-called ethics of it are irrelavent.

I also find it funny when I see quotes saying things along the lines of "I would probably do the same thing if I were in his position, but I would feel guilty about it"

-"well golly mister, I shot your dog a couple of times in the head to try out my new bb gun, knowing full well that it was wrong, but I sure do feel awful guilty about it"

-"Well, gee young man, if ya feel guilty about doing it, I guess that makes it alright"

Now that sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it?

Of course my using this as an example in no way means I think that what the OP did was wrong.

Doing something and feeling guilty about it is probably what keeps catholic church confessionals so busy. And speaking of religion, I find it interesting when I see referances to a "higher moral authority". This, in my opinion, is simply passing the buck on to someone or something else, eliminating personal responsibility from the equation.

- I have these "high" morals because a book says that a supreme being says that I should have them.

Of course that book also says things such as "eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot" (quoting exodus 21:24, which of course is commonly misinterpreted as a referance to revenge when it is more likely to mean an equivelant punishment for the crime) but when you think about it that way it is saying one who commits murder deserves nothing less than to be murdered which brings up such widely debated views on the death penalty and many other similar comparisons which would draw this too far off topic.

The OP met his obligation by informing the cashier of the questionable price accuracy. The employee is only able to go by what the computer says, and those who say that the OP took advantage of the cashier's ignorance of the value of the merchandise could compare it what every judge will tell someone who broke the law without knowing it. "ignorance is no excuse". A contract was formed (aka. the purchase) and both parties carried that contract out to its completion, yelding the closing of the contract (the receipt). Nothing more, nothing less. Posession went from A to B.

Some of these so-called moral high horse jockeys seem to give the impression that value or worth is not an issue and one must always do the "right thing". Of course, by following this point of view, if one were to find a quarter on the sidewalk, said person would feel a moral obligation to track down the original owner of that quarter because it was lost by said owner and the "right thing" to do would be to return it to them. They wouldn't be able to simply walk past the quarter either because inaction changes nothing for the better. They could not simply pick up the quarter and keep it because, according to the majority of the posts made by them, that would be stealing.

If you disagree with the OPs approach or simply the posting to begin with, you can express your disagreement without the namecalling or insulting. Regardless of whether it was done in a childish manner or not, it does nothing but provoke one to respond in a negative or hostile manner. Or, you can also simply choose to read the posting, form your opinions, and keep them to yourself. There is nothing obligating any member of this forum to post in any specific thread. Sometimes, the freedom of speech can be better exercised by what you choose not to say.

This is all, of course, simply my opinion. I do realize that there may be some who read this post who may take offense at the things that I have written. I will not say whether it was my intention or not to offend, because it is irellavent. Those who do feel insulted or offended may feel that this post accomplished nothing, or is wasted space, that is their right. It all boils down to the fact that everything I have typed is, as stated above, simply my opinion and its worth is relative to whomever reads it and whatever they take from it.

Red Dragon
 
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