JimKirk
Member
Split it down the middle and get a 25/06 and shoot a 110 gr accu bonds!
Jimmy K
Jimmy K
.243 or .270 for my first deer rifle? (I'm not a kid)
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bang_bang
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Honestly, you can't go wrong with any of the options people have named.
30-30, .243, .270. 7mm-08, 25-06....a deer isn't going to know the difference in dead with any of those calibers. Out of those calibers though, I own the .270. Recoil isn't bad, don't be afraid because people told you about how their .270 "kicks like a mule" or whatever. BS- my female hunting companion shoots my .270 like she's driving nails on paper. I'm 5'7 at 185 pounds, and I outweigh her by damn near 50 pounds with 2 inches on her, so she's not big at all.
A little recoil isn't anything to be worried about. If you can shoot your 30-30 all day, the .270 won't be a problem.
Honestly though...it's hard to be a 30-30 in the woods.
30-30, .243, .270. 7mm-08, 25-06....a deer isn't going to know the difference in dead with any of those calibers. Out of those calibers though, I own the .270. Recoil isn't bad, don't be afraid because people told you about how their .270 "kicks like a mule" or whatever. BS- my female hunting companion shoots my .270 like she's driving nails on paper. I'm 5'7 at 185 pounds, and I outweigh her by damn near 50 pounds with 2 inches on her, so she's not big at all.
A little recoil isn't anything to be worried about. If you can shoot your 30-30 all day, the .270 won't be a problem.
Honestly though...it's hard to be a 30-30 in the woods.
6.8 mm Remington SPC
How about 6.8 mm Remington SPC, light recoil and deadly punch of .277 caliber bullet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC
You can get nice Remington model Seven CDL chambered for this fine cartridge
"Remington likes to compare the ballistics of the 6.8mm SPC with those of that time-proven deer slayer, the .30-30 firing a 150-grain bullet. Accordingly, the 6.8mm Rem. SPC produces 23 percent more energy at 100 yards, 36 percent more at 200 yards, and at 300 yards, the 6.8mm SPC still retains 1,072 ft-lbs of energy compared to the .30-30's miserly 565 ft-lbs. The 6.8mm SPC is 4" flatter at 200 yards than the .30-30, and in rifles of identical weight, the recoil of the 6.8mm SPC is 30 percent less.
In fact, when it comes to recoil, Remington's figures show that when fired in a Model Seven rifle, the 6.8mm SPC with a 115grain 115 gr. bullet at 2,800 fps produces 8.8 ft-lbs of recoil while what we think of as a very mild cartridge, the .243 Win. with a 100-grain bullet at 2,960 fps, produces 10.7 ft-lbs. That's 18 percent less recoil in favor of the 6.8mm."
Think about it...
How about 6.8 mm Remington SPC, light recoil and deadly punch of .277 caliber bullet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC
You can get nice Remington model Seven CDL chambered for this fine cartridge
"Remington likes to compare the ballistics of the 6.8mm SPC with those of that time-proven deer slayer, the .30-30 firing a 150-grain bullet. Accordingly, the 6.8mm Rem. SPC produces 23 percent more energy at 100 yards, 36 percent more at 200 yards, and at 300 yards, the 6.8mm SPC still retains 1,072 ft-lbs of energy compared to the .30-30's miserly 565 ft-lbs. The 6.8mm SPC is 4" flatter at 200 yards than the .30-30, and in rifles of identical weight, the recoil of the 6.8mm SPC is 30 percent less.
In fact, when it comes to recoil, Remington's figures show that when fired in a Model Seven rifle, the 6.8mm SPC with a 115grain 115 gr. bullet at 2,800 fps produces 8.8 ft-lbs of recoil while what we think of as a very mild cartridge, the .243 Win. with a 100-grain bullet at 2,960 fps, produces 10.7 ft-lbs. That's 18 percent less recoil in favor of the 6.8mm."
Think about it...
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Uncle Mike
Member
You asked... between the two, the .243 and the .270 which one would I suggest...?
I'm not tellin'...
Between the two, If it were I... I would get the .270 waaaay before the .243.
...and you can use it for Elk, Moose(if done correctly) and rabid weinner dogs....
Get a Savage 116, with its thinner than most, tapered barrel it won't be a load to lug around...and I am sure you can handle the horrid maiming recoil...Just kiddin', the recoil is not bad at all...promise!
I'm not tellin'...
Between the two, If it were I... I would get the .270 waaaay before the .243.
...and you can use it for Elk, Moose(if done correctly) and rabid weinner dogs....
Get a Savage 116, with its thinner than most, tapered barrel it won't be a load to lug around...and I am sure you can handle the horrid maiming recoil...Just kiddin', the recoil is not bad at all...promise!
robctwo
Member
I bought a .243 Winchester Featherweight in 1978. Shot it a lot, carried it miles and killed a lot of deer. Bought the .270 in the early 90's, sent it to Montana with my cousin's kid, he's 35. Still have and shoot the .243.
Went with a BAR in 300WSM for the bigger stuff.
Went with a BAR in 300WSM for the bigger stuff.
We shot my brother's Howa M 1500 in .270 with the overmolded HOgue stock and it didnt feel much in recoil. It was like shooting a .30 30 for me. THe pad was really thick to absorb the shock. I advise to get this gun and it comes with combo scope too for the price. GOod luck.
Schleprok62
Member
I'd suggest a 7mm-08 also... but, splitting the difference between it and the .243, you can't go wrong with the .260 Rem either... recoil isn't much more than a 30-30, but then again... what kind of terain will yuo be hunting... if it's thick woods, the gentleman who suggested that you answered your own question hit the nail on the head... the 30-30 Win is the ticket... I still love my Marlin 336C
AStone
Member
OK, let's review.
The 30-06 beat the crap out of him. .270 is a necked down .30-06.
So, why in hell's name are any of you recommending .270 for this person?
This defies logic. Are you not reading his OP?
Sure 7mm08 is a fine cartridge. But it's a necked down .308.
Cutting to the chase, he can shoot .30-30 all day long with no problem.
More deer have been taken with .30-30 than all other calibers combined.
Let's repeat that: More deer have been taken with .30-30 than all other calibers combined.
It's good enough. It's more than good enough.
It can be handloaded with everything from 85 gr to 190.
Put a good recoil pad on it, you're in the comfort zone.
Get the .30-30.
If not, go with the .243 or a .223 if that's legal where you live.
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desidog
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All the options listed are good on caliber; however, a main element in the kick equation is the weight of the rifle itself. Heavy guns don't kick as much. Physics aside, the recoil is much more manageable. I have a W70 Featherweight, and would not recommend it (.300WSM) because it is so light that it bucks like a mule. However my Montana M99 in .243 has very little recoil: you can keep the scope picture through a shot. I've DRT'd ever deer i've shot at with it, and a groundhog's head at 200yds is no problem either. However, for the occasional elk, i'd go bigger.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Go .243 - great round. The .270 recoil is nearly indistinguishable from .30-06.
BUT, it depends on the weight of the rifle, as well as other characteristics - was your buddy's rifle a light or heavy or medium one.
BUT, it depends on the weight of the rifle, as well as other characteristics - was your buddy's rifle a light or heavy or medium one.
I would say Ruger M77 mark II in 270 and even consider stainless...This is a fine gun that will last forever!I have a 270 in this blued walnut stock,it goes with me 90 percent of the time.Leupold 4.5x14x50AO,Very accurate!I keep bore and gun cleaned properly!Get a good Quality scope,Leupold...Keep in mind your buddies gun you shot could have had a LIGHT stock making the gun lighter.I had a 300 win mag in a Savage that was light..Well It kicked like..It was bad! Have in a heavier gun not so bad.Just some things to think about!
30-30
the 30-30 will absolutly get the job done and then some.
if recoil is a problem, then get a shoulder pad.
if range is problem, leverevolution is the answer.
get both and you will have a major buckbuster on your hands!
happy huntin!
the 30-30 will absolutly get the job done and then some.
if recoil is a problem, then get a shoulder pad.
if range is problem, leverevolution is the answer.
get both and you will have a major buckbuster on your hands!
happy huntin!
Hammerhead6814
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From what I know the .270 Winchester is a .30-06 that was necked down to accept the 6.8mm (.270 inch) bullet. So I imagine that recoil will be the same.
I used to shoot a SIG 970 SHR for deer. It has a bit of a bite when it comes to recoil. I have never shot a .243. Ever. However I've heard that the .243 is really a .308 Winchester that was necked down to accept the .243 bullet. I HAVE shot a .308 Winchester, and it was so light compared to the .270 that I thought they were pulling my leg (my uncles tend to do that a lot).
If recoil is a major issue, the .243 will be your round of choice. It will take deer.
I used to shoot a SIG 970 SHR for deer. It has a bit of a bite when it comes to recoil. I have never shot a .243. Ever. However I've heard that the .243 is really a .308 Winchester that was necked down to accept the .243 bullet. I HAVE shot a .308 Winchester, and it was so light compared to the .270 that I thought they were pulling my leg (my uncles tend to do that a lot).
If recoil is a major issue, the .243 will be your round of choice. It will take deer.
scythefwd
Member
The .308 has the same bullets as the .30-06 and it has basically the the same velocities. The recoil should be indistinguishable from the '06.
The .243 is about the same speed, but with much less weight on the projectile. You could have been shooting a reduced recoil .308 though, which would feel similar to a .243, if not a little bit more stout on the recoil.
The .243 is about the same speed, but with much less weight on the projectile. You could have been shooting a reduced recoil .308 though, which would feel similar to a .243, if not a little bit more stout on the recoil.
sixshooterfan
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Minor technical correction - .270 fires a .277 diameter bullet. It's weird like that.
There are also reduced recoil loads for the .270 that are good out to 200 yards that feel like a .243 more or less. But I would still stick to the .243 (just IMHO).
There are also reduced recoil loads for the .270 that are good out to 200 yards that feel like a .243 more or less. But I would still stick to the .243 (just IMHO).
Uncle Mike
Member
Here is what the OP said... the '06 beat the crap out of him...
The 30-06 beat the crap out of him. .270 is a necked down .30-06....read on!
WOW... because he ASKED which, between the two, the .243 and the .270 would be best, in our opinions, for him...that is why!
The .270, with its 130gr bullet aint going to be nearly as hard punching as the 30-06 with say a 150gr bullet.
Just because the 270 is based off of the 30-06 case.... this does not mean it's going to exhibit the same recoil as the 30-06.
Since the case is the same, I would venture to say any difference in recoil might just be the weight of the projectile being launched.... never mind powder quantity et cetera, et cetera.
In any event, IMHO the .270 would not cause you any harm, however I am not a doctor nor do I assume to know the intimate details of your persona, so my statement is but opinion only.... use at your own risk. lol hehehe
The 30-30 has downed many deer creatures of past, and does so every year, and I would feel safe to say, will do so for many a year into the future, but.....
I do not care what color you paint it... the 30-30 will never be the deer slayer the .270 will be...period! Not that this has anything to do with the OP's question but....
If your going to take most of your shots this side of 200y then the 30-30 will suffice, however the 270 only, very moderately exhibits more recoil than the venerable old 30-30 and out preforms it by much.
Also, given the same weight rifle, I bet the 30-30 launching 150gr pills will slap as hard or harder than a 270 launching 130grainers...just a thought, I may be wrong.
Hammerhead6814
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I think we'd be doing a disservice to tell him to use the 6.8 SPC. The cartridges are still expensive, and finding a rifle that chambers it is also difficult. Let's just stick with the two he's suggested.
KINGMAX
Member
270 = jmoho
270 = You can't go wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!
270 = You can't go wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reloading will fix cartridge problem, there are plenty of .277 caliber bullets as far as riffle, Remington makes model seven CDL, here is one advertised my Wal-Mart http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4665701
Personally I use 270 WIN I don't have .243 never had a need for one, but comparing .270 vs .308 the 270 is nothing in comparisons I think sonic boom of the bullet going 3100+ ft/s can be felt on 270, my 308 usually don't go pass 2800 ft./s so I use .270 for hunting and .308 for target shooting in my opinion .270 can do same thing .308 can.
Personally I use 270 WIN I don't have .243 never had a need for one, but comparing .270 vs .308 the 270 is nothing in comparisons I think sonic boom of the bullet going 3100+ ft/s can be felt on 270, my 308 usually don't go pass 2800 ft./s so I use .270 for hunting and .308 for target shooting in my opinion .270 can do same thing .308 can.
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scythefwd
Member
uncle mike,
That 270 with a 130gr pill will be moving appx. 3234 fps, the .30-30 with the 150 gr. pill will only be moving 2416 fps. Hello 800 fps difference. That 270 is moving FASTER than an 30-06 shooting the same 130 gr pill (3179 fps). For compairison, the .308 with that exact same 130 gr pill is moving even slower, at 3135 fps. At least according to my reloading manual.
To those who don't think that means much... the very low recoil .30-30 is moving out at 2496 with a 130 gr pill. We all know how much the .30-30 kicks less than the 30-06. That is only a 600 fps difference. The .243 is lighter by 13 grains, and slower than the .270 by 433 fps (2802 fps). If he is recoil sensitive, the .243 is the round that will beat him up less. In fact, it should feel much like the .30-30 that he can shoot all day. The 270 can actually have more energy than the .30-06, which the OP stated that he was adverse to shooting due to it beating the crap out of him. Why do we recommend the .270 as the best rifle for him knowing he doesn't like handling that much recoil? It is the better deer round, but the .243 will kill them just the same and dead is dead. There isn't anything as more dead or less dead (but there is mostly dead, which means a little bit alive ) If the .270 is too much for the OP, then we are left with the .243 out of the choices that he has given us.
OP - Was the -06 you shot a bolt action or a semi-auto? There is a huge difference in felt recoil between the two. With a semi-auto, a good recoil pad, and reduced recoil loads, the .270 or .30-06 might well fit the bill so I would suggest trying them out if you can. If you can't, it would make more sense to get the .243 because it will be much more manageable and you will shoot it more. There is nothing like wasting money on a gun you are afraid to shoot because it kicks like a mule.
That 270 with a 130gr pill will be moving appx. 3234 fps, the .30-30 with the 150 gr. pill will only be moving 2416 fps. Hello 800 fps difference. That 270 is moving FASTER than an 30-06 shooting the same 130 gr pill (3179 fps). For compairison, the .308 with that exact same 130 gr pill is moving even slower, at 3135 fps. At least according to my reloading manual.
To those who don't think that means much... the very low recoil .30-30 is moving out at 2496 with a 130 gr pill. We all know how much the .30-30 kicks less than the 30-06. That is only a 600 fps difference. The .243 is lighter by 13 grains, and slower than the .270 by 433 fps (2802 fps). If he is recoil sensitive, the .243 is the round that will beat him up less. In fact, it should feel much like the .30-30 that he can shoot all day. The 270 can actually have more energy than the .30-06, which the OP stated that he was adverse to shooting due to it beating the crap out of him. Why do we recommend the .270 as the best rifle for him knowing he doesn't like handling that much recoil? It is the better deer round, but the .243 will kill them just the same and dead is dead. There isn't anything as more dead or less dead (but there is mostly dead, which means a little bit alive
) If the .270 is too much for the OP, then we are left with the .243 out of the choices that he has given us.OP - Was the -06 you shot a bolt action or a semi-auto? There is a huge difference in felt recoil between the two. With a semi-auto, a good recoil pad, and reduced recoil loads, the .270 or .30-06 might well fit the bill so I would suggest trying them out if you can. If you can't, it would make more sense to get the .243 because it will be much more manageable and you will shoot it more. There is nothing like wasting money on a gun you are afraid to shoot because it kicks like a mule.
AStone
Member
I apologize for my testy mood last night.me said:
(I should really stop replying late at night after 12 hour days,
on a weekend, no less. Ah, yes, I remember weekends off; I had them once
). I haven't read today's posts carefully yet, but will ... later.
Mike, you make some good points, including about bullet weights in the .270,
even though .30-30 is just as capable a "deer slayer" as any .270
- maybe even more so
- in the right hands. 
I predict this will continue to be an interesting thread.
Warhawk, I hope you find useful information here.
My suggestion: don't rush a decision. Research lots.
Fondle some rifles. If possible, try before you buy.
OK, off to work. I'll catch up sometime in the next day or two.
Nem
AStone
Member
PS:
I would not argue that you're wrong.
But if we're really going for ceteris paribus, then we gotta make the bullet weights the same, also. I haven't tried them myself, but I'll bet a 130 gr in the .30-30 would even out the recoils, maybe even making it recoil less than a .270, more in .243 territory. But now, we're getting into recoil war territory, felt recoil and all that, and maybe even OT. (He did ask about only two calibers, but some of us would like to encourage him to consider others. If he says no, then that's that.)
Bigger point is, if one is able to reload, .30-30 has a wide range of options for bullet sizes, from 85 to 110 gr for small game & plinking to 190 or so.
And with Hornady's Leverevolution, we've now even got pointy ones!
Just can't resist responding to that one.
I would not argue that you're wrong.
But if we're really going for ceteris paribus, then we gotta make the bullet weights the same, also. I haven't tried them myself, but I'll bet a 130 gr in the .30-30 would even out the recoils, maybe even making it recoil less than a .270, more in .243 territory. But now, we're getting into recoil war territory, felt recoil and all that, and maybe even OT. (He did ask about only two calibers, but some of us would like to encourage him to consider others. If he says no, then that's that.)
Bigger point is, if one is able to reload, .30-30 has a wide range of options for bullet sizes, from 85 to 110 gr for small game & plinking to 190 or so.
And with Hornady's Leverevolution, we've now even got pointy ones!
jlynch34
Member
I have owned three different 30-06's and two 270's. In my experience the 06 has alot more recoil. I also own a 243 and use it or my 270 for deer either does the job, however, if I had only one rifle it would be the 270.
Just my $.02.
Just my $.02.
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