25-06, Thoughts?

[sgtcauthon]

Hey guys, I have a Ruger M77 Hawkeye, in 25-06. Don't know much about the ballistics of the round. I love the rifle, and it did take down two deer, though niether were farther than 50yds. What do you guys think? Could it be used as a sniper round? What is the largest game you'd go after with one?

 

[PT1911]

it is a very capable and flat shooting round... personally, i would not hesitate to take elk sized game with it... it is not necessarily optimum for it but a 120gr bullet at over 3000 ft/sec is nothing to sneeze at... I have no doubt that it is more capable at long range than am I...

A dead-on zero at 200 yds allows for 1-1.5 inches high at 100 and roughly 6 inches low at 300... Not bad IMO!!!

 

[joed]

I've owned one for 30+ years. It's a fantastic cartridge and very versatile. You can load light bullets to hunt varmints and heavy bullets for bigger game.

Used mine on ground hogs in OH. It is the hardest hitting varmint cartridge you'll ever see at unbelievable distances using bullets of 75 to 90 gr.

Try some 120 gr bullets and you can hunt game as large as elk.

 

[pdd614]

the only thing holding back the 25-06, or any 25 cal for that matter, is the lack of high bc bullet selection. Berger makes a vld for it, but the g1 bc is only .466. This makes the 25 cals less than ideal for a long range round when fighting the wind is of big concern. Compare the bullet selection to 6.5 and 7mm, and you will see what a disadvantage it really is.

But if someone came up with a very good high bc bullets, then I think you would start seeing alot more 25 cals show up at long distance shoots.

 

[JimKirk]

I've owned one since 1969... killed many deer and hogs with it ... from 9 yds to 400yds plus. Mine is a very accurate A-Bolt Browning.

Jimmy K

 

[nathan]

Shoots like laser within its killing parameters. Quite deadly.

 

[Maverick223]

Never cared for it...or any other .25cal. for that matter. It has a poor selection of bullets (no high BC or SD bullets are available), is hard on barrels, and requires a pretty long tube to get the most out of it. I wouldn't be wary of using it for deer and such, but would be hesitant to use it for elk or larger game. Effective hunting range is probably just as far as the rifleman can ethically shoot (IMO that is about 400-500yds with a clean shot). It isn't particularly suited to long range target use because of the BC problems (doesn't buck the wind well, and drops quickly as it begins to slow), nor is it good for sniper use for similar reasons.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

I personally prefer the 7mm.08 to the 25.06 for the same reason the others have stated. Bullet selection is very poor. It is a fantastic deer cartridge for 400yds and in but as far as long distance, there are just way too many better choices. If Hornady would get off their butts and make some decent bullet choices for it, I would have to agree with pdd614, you would see them going off the shelves like hotcakes.

 

[coug]

these guys all are corect. the 25-06 just don't have the bullets to go long range. but it is a great deer/antalope rifle. very flat and deadly out to 400 yds. if you ever see a company make a 130 grn bullet for it it would be top notch long range till then no way. rebarrel to a 6.5-06 if you reload . then you have a good long range rifle. you can even AI it if you want it to go fast.

 

[blackops]

A "sniper" round? No.

I'll just say for deer and coyotes out to 300yds it will knock em and drop em. I would never use the round for Elk.

Bullet selection is the down side to this cartridge as mentioned.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

As a side note, I just emailed hornady with this.

A question , and I guess, a suggestion for your design team. I, and a lot of other folks I have spoken to, would absolutely LOVE to see an offering from Hornady of better ballistic bullets for the 25.06rem cartridge. While what is out now is a fantastic deer cartridge, some of us long range shooters would like to see something along the lines of a 130 grain SST and Interbond. High BC and enough weight to help buck the wind better and less falloff at ranges past 300 yards.
Thankyou, and I hope to hear from you soon

Think I will get a positive response?

 

[Maverick223]

Think I will get a positive response?

Yes and no; I think you will get a courteous thank you saying that your comments "will be taken into consideration"...but no, I seriously doubt that they will actually pursue such a design, nor produce something along those lines, I just don't believe that there is a big enough demand for such. That said, it doesn't hurt to ask; without doing so the answer is always an emphatic NO.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

That said, it doesn't hurt to ask; without doing so the answer is always an emphatic NO.

I have always subscribed to the old adage "The only stupid question is the one left unasked"

But you are probably right Mav, but then again, there seems to be a growing number of folks wanting to better this particular cartridge. Kind of like 7mm.08 didn't have that great of a following in the 80's, when it was actually legitimized, it started to really gather a following in the middle to late 90's when reloading books started to get some really good recipes with better quality bullet selections. Granted the 25.06 has been around as a wildcat offering since the 1920's and legitimized around late 1969, but it has really started to gain a stronger following in popularity in the past 5 years or so. Sometimes it takes a really strong kick in the pants to get the bullet makers off their butts to make a particular cartridge a spectacular offering.

 

[joed]

Bullet selection for the .25 isn't the best. But if you also look at a .270 you can say the same thing about bullets. I do have a box of Berger VLD but can't remember the BC. Do know it was better then my 168 gr match .308 though.

If you're going to use it for long range target the bullet selection leaves much to be desired. For hunting the cartridge is tops, that's why I've stayed with it for 30+ years. I bought mine strictly for hunting and find it's hard to beat. With the 87 gr bullets it is the hardest hitting of the varmint cartridges at distances you wouldn't believe, try a 100 or 120 and you've got a gun for larger game. That's called versatility.

Back when I bought mine there was a group of us that went ground hog hunting every weekend in OH. The 06 out performed all my other friend's rifles which were .223, .243, .270, 6mm and .220 Swift. The only cartridge that came close was one friend with a .220 Swift, but on a windy day even he couldn't keep up.

I enjoyed this rifle so much that after I found out the barrel was done I rebarreled with a Krieger match. The cartridge chosen was once again the .25-06.

Everyone should own a .25-06.

 

[coug]

it is a fact if they would make a .257 130 grn bullet they would sell as well as the 140grn .264 they just havent done it yet. Think of all the .257 wtdy guys that would buy them up. and the long range guys would all build a 25-06. or a .257-08 it would be verH popular.

 

[Maverick223]

Bullet selection for the .25 isn't the best. But if you also look at a .270 you can say the same thing about bullets.

I do, and therefore am a big proponent of the .280Rem. That isn't to say that either won't do very well for hunting game at an ethical distance. BTW, I consider it a much better cartridge for the varmint hunter, and bridges the gap between varmint and deer rifle nicely (better than the .243Win. IMO).

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Got the answer from Hornady on the question already!!!

The problem is the two bullets you want are in conflict with the existing cartridge. A heavier bullet would be fine but it would have to be a round nose in order to stabilize. A high BC bullet with really streamlined shape won't be heavy or it won't stabilize.

 

[10-96]

Hmm. Well, I guess we could always ask them if they would mind bending the laws of physics for us just this one time.

 

[coug]

Then why does the 140grn work so well in the .264 that doesn't compute to me?

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Then why does the 140grn work so well in the .264 that doesn't compute to me?

Seating depths. The .257 in the 25.06 is as long as they can make it and still be in the acceptable range for case capacity and OAL for breech. That would be my assumption

 

[pdd614]

Using that same logic, we would never have a +210 grain bullet in 30 cal. Obviously we do, and those bullets are put to very good use in all kinds of 30 cal chamberings. Its just about getting some good bc bullets made, and the hand loaders will find a way to use them. Same goes to the horrible selection of high bc bullets for the 6.8 calibers.

 

[justashooter in pa]

it has to do with twist rate. each caliber is limited in it's application by twist rate of the rifle barrels chambered for it.

6mm remington and 243 winchester are a good contrast. the twist rate in 6mm chambered guns will only stabilise bullets from 65 to 90 grains, despite it's larger case capacity, while the 243 will stabilise from 80 to 105. hence the popularity of the 243, and the discontinumance of the 6mm remington. shooters wanted a dual purpose rifle, not a rifle limited to varmints.

if you shot 130-140 gr bullets in a 25-06 they would not stabilise, would not be accurate, and would not penetrate well. if you had a special barrel made in a twist rate that would, then you would have something special.

 

[pdd614]

Just a phone call to your favorite barrel maker and gunsmith. Then you are off and running. A buddy of mine has a 243 with an 8 twist barrel, that thing is a real tack driver with 115 grain dtac's.
I know its not an apples to apples comparison, but getting a properly twisted barrel is not a big deal.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

justashooter in pa, It really has little to do with twist rates and more to do with the length of the bullet and the overall length of the cartridge. They are making the bullets as long as they can. Since they cant make them longer or "fatter" then where can they make up the difference? I see the point hornady has made. To make more weight in the bullet, they would have to add size and that would require the loss of a pointed nose. Unless you can come up with a material suitable for bullet making that is heavier than lead then you have to sacrifice either case capacity to accommodate a longer bullet or you have to sacrifice Ballistic Coefficient with a round nose.

 

[Maverick223]

The problem is the two bullets you want are in conflict with the existing cartridge. A heavier bullet would be fine but it would have to be a round nose in order to stabilize. A high BC bullet with really streamlined shape won't be heavy or it won't stabilize.

Makes sense to me.

Then why does the 140grn work so well in the .264 that doesn't compute to me?

A larger diameter bullet (which equates to a shorter length), extra powder (and therefore velocity), and generally a faster twist rate.

Using that same logic, we would never have a +210 grain bullet in 30 cal. Obviously we do, and those bullets are put to very good use in all kinds of 30 cal chamberings. Its just about getting some good bc bullets made, and the hand loaders will find a way to use them. Same goes to the horrible selection of high bc bullets for the 6.8 calibers.

You have to have a pretty fast twist rate and/or a good bit of velocity to push the big spitzers. The round nose bullets are easy because they are shorter (and therefore much easier to stabilize). Stability is a factor of length of projectile, velocity of projectile, and the twist rate. For instance I can push 240gr. SMKs in my 1:10 twist .300WM for an excellent BC and great long range ballistics, but my wee little M1 Carbine (same caliber) is limited to about 125gr. (max.) round nose bullets because of the much lower velocity and slower twist rate (1:16 IIRC). Same caliber, much different results.