2A Sanctuary Movement starting to spread to other states

[JERRY]

No. After judge Benitez ruled, these "grandfathered" magazines didn't need to be with the original owners as they could be sold/transferred. Since the ruling, I am quite sure many of these "grandfathered" magazines changed ownership.

And no, judge Benitez's ruling did not include "grandfathering". He legalized all capacity magazines as he deemed them "arms" under the protection of the Second Amendment allowing sales/transfer from the original owner.

so Californians can now buy 30 round AR 15 magazines and 17 round Glock magazines?

 

[LiveLife]

so Californians can now buy 30 round AR 15 magazines and 17 round Glock magazines?

No but due to the stay, not due to the ruling that overturned CA laws while we wait on 9th Circuit - https://michellawyers.com/duncan-v-becerra/

If we get a majority pro gun/2A 9th Circuit panel, judge Benitez's ruling would remain, possibly for 15 states and US territories.

If 9th Circuit rules against Benitez ruling, then case goes to SCOTUS with decision applying to the entire country. (And I cannot wait to hear Gorsuch reasoning built on top of Benitez reasoning, especially "arbitrary" round number restriction and "lethal pause" for citizens defending their lives)

To me, that's win-likely win either way.

There's even talk of antis possibly preferring 9th Circuit to agree with judge Benitez ruling because SCOTUS could rule in favor of removing magazine capacity restrictions as increasing number of courts called magazines "arms" protected under the Second Amendment (If we win at 9th Circuit then we have precedent set for other district/circuit courts to follow - And many federal courts are ALREADY majority pro gun/2A )

 

[JERRY]

No but due to the stay, not due to the ruling that overturned CA laws while we wait on 9th Circuit - https://michellawyers.com/duncan-v-becerra/

If we get a majority pro gun/2A 9th Circuit panel, judge Benitez's ruling would remain, possibly for 15 states and US territories.

If 9th Circuit rules against Benitez ruling, case goes to the SCOTUS with decision applying to the entire country.

To me, that's win-likely win either way. (There's talk of antis possibly preferring 9th Circuit to agree with judge Benitez ruling because SCOTUS could rule in favor of removing magazine capacity restrictions as increasing number of courts called magazines "arms" protected under the Second Amendment)

that's the bottom line; No.
let me know when you have a final court decision. until then California has their old ban re-instated.

 

[LiveLife]

that's the bottom line; No.

Well ... there's another thing of enforcement.

When CA was asked how they planned to enforce post stay magazine purchase/importation ... CA kinda stated it was possibly unenforceable.

let me know when you have a final court decision. until then California has their old ban re-instated.

And no one really knows when 9th Circuit will hear Duncan v Becerra.

Could be 2020 or could be several years. One thing is certain and that is Trump will keep appointing pro gun/2A judges so longer it takes 9th Circuit to hear Duncan v Becerra, it could be better for us.

Besides, 9th Circuit is already turning so it may not matter when the case is heard - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tw...firmed-over-objections-of-california-senators

 

[Koroner]

This right here. This is it. It's the cry wolf syndrome. I've been hearing about Democrats coming for my gun for literally my entire life. It gets tiresome after a while. I can't believe the Supreme Court has shirked its duty all these decades and not simply decided the matter once and for all.

As the population urbanizes they become more and more anti-guns. Its not crying wolf, at least not this time around.
Many Democrats are itching to tear down 2A, and they learned a few tricks after the Crime Bill debacle.
Sad to say but I have family members that are rabidly anti-gun. I know their certainty and it scares me.

I like the idea of sanctuary counties and may lobby for it here.
Its not crying wolf if the wolf is actually at the door and the first step of creating a fascist regime is to disarm the populace.
And the libs do want to create an authoritarian system.

EDIT
And the irony of 2A being based on the 1689 the British Bill Of Rights guaranteeing every Englishman nine rights including the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense is not lost on me now that they have abandoned it.
Those that choose to ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

 

[LiveLife]

I agree.

While symbolic, push for 2A Sanctuary cities/counties are bringing pro gun/2A people together in support of their local government. As the 2A Sanctuary Movement grows, this could lead to people organizing better and mobilizing to lobby for gun rights/2A and impacting local/state elections.

I am liking the growing support for VA January 20 lobby day rally. If people continue to stand up, lobby, rally on a national scale (Which I believe could readily happen in 2020), gun rights/2A could be one of several key issues for 2020 election.

I anticipate 2A Sanctuary Movement to keep growing in different counties and states.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Nobody wants a civil war. Everyone agrees voting and lobbying is optimal.

But some of you folks are absolutely mental to think that theres just a few hicks out there that wont resist unconstitutional laws.

We may not be the majority, but it ain't by much. And we're all aware and watching/waiting now. Forget what did or didnt happen in past elections, folks are paying attention NOW.

 

[LiveLife]

12/20/19: Virginia Unconstitutional Gun Law Update With VCDL President - Truth about what is happening in VA and why we MUST stand up and say NO MORE.

At 9:15 minute, VCDL president talks about the rally on 1/20/20

 

[Basura Blanca]

that's the bottom line; No.
let me know when you have a final court decision. until then California has their old ban re-instated.

True enough, but you're discounting the core of what the decision meant to the state.
They anticipated that the magazine language added via prop 63 might have been enjoined, but they did not anticipate that the entirety of the twenty-year ban prior would be wiped out completely. This was evidenced by their scramble to answer the decision and shore up the damage as quickly as possible. Regardless of the limbo it all sits in now, the path that brought us there isn't insignificant. Consider too that the proponents of the ballot measure outspent us by a factor of four and the same basic law had been marched through the legislature. This was a David v. Goliath moment.

 

[JERRY]

True enough, but you're discounting the core of what the decision meant to the state.
They anticipated that the magazine language added via prop 63 might have been enjoined, but they did not anticipate that the entirety of the twenty-year ban prior would be wiped out completely. This was evidenced by their scramble to answer the decision and shore up the damage as quickly as possible. Regardless of the limbo it all sits in now, the path that brought us there isn't insignificant. Consider too that the proponents of the ballot measure outspent us by a factor of four and the same basic law had been marched through the legislature. This was a David v. Goliath moment.

I keep hearing being outspent, are you saying that the judges making the decisions as to the constitutionality of the law are siding with whomever pays them the most?

 

[Basura Blanca]

Don't forget Needles CA did it back in July

I liked this part: "But they do want to make it easier for interstate travelers who pull off U.S. Interstate 40 for food and fuel to avoid a felony arrest if a traffic stop produces a loaded but legally-registered gun from outside California."

Unfortunately, a traffic stop would most likely be initiated by CHP who are state police and wouldn't care a crap about the unenforceable sanctuary status decree. That's the problem with these things. They look good on paper but they aren't adequate in application.

 

[Basura Blanca]

I keep hearing being outspent, are you saying that the judges making the decisions as to the constitutionality of the law are siding with whomever pays them the most?

The ban on the grandfathered possession of +10 magazines came to be via a ballot initiative (prop 63). The proponents of that initiative had like a four million dollar warchest to work with, and NRA, etc. spent roughly one million fighting it, iirc.

edit: https://ballotpedia.org/California_...munition_Magazine_Ban_(2016)#Campaign_finance

 

[JERRY]

The ban on the grandfathered possession of +10 magazines came to be via a ballot initiative (prop 63). The proponents of that initiative had like a four million dollar warchest to work with, and NRA, etc. spent roughly one million fighting it, iirc.

edit: https://ballotpedia.org/California_...munition_Magazine_Ban_(2016)#Campaign_finance

I had no idea that they let your disgruntled neighbors, convicted felons, and illegal aliens vote on your ability to purchase/own a specific gun magazine.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I love the thought of a 2A sanctuary state, county, or even a city. It is nice to know where your local government, prosecutors and law enforcement stand on the issue and what they will or won’t do in regards to state and federal laws that might possibly be unconstitutional. I also like that it does in some degree send a message to Politicians at all levels of government that there citizens that don’t want additional anti-gun laws enacted. Some politicians and government officials sadly don’t care, and some do, hopefully those that do care will listen and act appropriately. Obviously the Democrats aren’t listening and many anti gun laws are being passed.

Sure there are laws that most all of us agree are unconstitutional, as well as those that we “believe” to be unconstitutional. However sadly, some of those laws we have felt to be unconstitutional SCOTUS has refused to hear and we were left with the lower courts ruling of being constitutional.

As of yet, I have failed to find a single instance in any state court or federal court that has upheld the actual legality of 2A status on any level from States, Counties or Cities. As of yet, has not been challenged in any state or federal court as of yet. I admit I could be wrong, so if you are aware of one, please give the Case info, Link, City, state, county, and which court it is in. Also what the outcome of the case is, or if it is still pending, or even in the appeals process.

So as awesome as it sounds to have a 2A State, county or city, other then sending a message. At this point in time they have zero legal effect. So much so that even the VA AG says they aren’t, and will still somehow enforce the anti gun laws anyways.

So let’s keep up the push for more 2A Sanctuaries, but let us understand that they may not have any legal effect even if the Democrats pass unconstitutional laws and we have to wait for a SCOTUS decision.

 

[LiveLife]

Getting back to OP discussion of 2A Sanctuary Movement ...

Video shows insight into the background story of Amelia county, VA townhall meeting last Wednesday where watered down 2A Sanctuary resolution was passed that should have been stronger to better reflect the sentiment of the county residents. In contrast, various other county board of supervisors meetings presented both watered down and stronger 2A Sanctuary resolutions for residents to vote on and most voted for stronger 2A Sanctuary resolutions.

For this reason, residents of other counties/states reviewing 2A Sanctuary resolutions need to be better informed and communicate with their county board of supervisors - Townhall Media: Amelia county, VA Townhall meeting


The 2A Sanctuary Movement Is Using The Left’s Playbook, And They Can’t Stand It - https://bearingarms.com/cam-e/2019/...ng-the-lefts-playbook-and-they-cant-stand-it/

While 2A Sanctuary resolution by counties is symbolic, it represents the resolve and the intent of "The People". For decades, antis have used the tactic of pushing for grassroots support against gun rights at local levels all the way up to the federal level. And it worked to place anti gun law makers at all levels of government and anti gun/2A judges in federal courts/SCOTUS.

Well, so can we and the 2A Sanctuary Movement is "our" grassroots movement that could place pro gun/2A law makers at all levels of government.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I had no idea that they let your disgruntled neighbors, convicted felons, and illegal aliens vote on your ability to purchase/own a specific gun magazine.

Certainly. At one time, they allowed your neighbors to vote on whether two men could marry. Or whether two people of different races could marry. Or if children could only go to school with other children of the same color, etc. etc

That's why we have courts, so that the rights of the few are protected from the tyranny of the majority. It just so happens that, with the 2A, the courts have been shirking their duties. But in retrospect, the courts shirked their duties in my above referenced examples for many years before coming around.

 

[LiveLife]

That's why we have courts, so that the rights of the few are protected from the tyranny of the majority.

It just so happens that, with the 2A, the courts have been shirking their duties.

Very good point.

And with increasing Trump appointments to federal courts and the SCOTUS, courts finally may rule in favor of protecting the constitutional rights of the minority gun owners from the tyranny of the majority.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Very good point.

And with increasing Trump appointments to federal courts and the SCOTUS, courts finally may rule in favor of protecting the constitutional rights of the minority gun owners from the tyranny of the majority.

I hope so. Love him or hate him, and regardless of how or when he leaves office, he has already left his mark and legacy on this country. (Although, to be fair, Mitch McConnell has played a pivotal role in that as well.)

 

[LiveLife]

to be fair, Mitch McConnell has played a pivotal role in that as well.

Holding off approving federal judges and Obama not pushing for appointments sure helped our cause big time.

One thing is certain and that is Trump will keep appointing federal judges into 2020 and beyond which will keep turning federal courts pro gun/2A for generations as many federal courts already became majority pro gun/2A. Imagine the lasting effects of this judicial success for 2A. Case after case setting precedents and ultimately going to the SCOTUS for final ruling to enforce the Constitution/Bill of Rights and make the law makers comply.

I applaud the framers of our government for having the foresight to set up three branches to check and balance each other when others fail to uphold the Constitution.

 

[dh1633pm]

The legal end of the declaration will play itself out at some point. People are saying basically "I won't submit". Doesn't mean they will or won't. Sometimes that is enough.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I applaud the framers of our government for having the foresight to set up three branches to check and balance each other when others fail to uphold the Constitution.

The credit for that idea actually goes to a French political philosopher named Rousseau.

 

[Jammersix]

I'm amused at the number of folks who think sanctuaries for immigrants are bad things support sanctuaries for guns.

 

[Trey Veston]

I'm amused at the number of folks who think sanctuaries for immigrants are bad things support sanctuaries for guns.

I'm amused that you apparently think they are constitutionally and morally equivalent.

 

[DoubleMag]

Self amusing alot?

 

[taliv]

I'm amused at the number of folks who think sanctuaries for immigrants are bad things support sanctuaries for guns.

It seems like it would be obvious to a casual observer that no one prefers such a world. But A 3 tier justice system would be even worse where a group gets to simply flaunt all laws. So the way to solve it is give them a taste of their own medicine and hope saner heads prevail in the next election