30-40 Krag Vs 03 Springfield

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SmeeAgain

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I have my grandfather's 30-40 Krag carbine.
It's military life was cut short with the replacement 03 Springfield rifle.
I've owned a few of the 03a3 rifles over the years and while OK, the Krag seems far superior.
Why was it replaced with something seemingly inferior?
 
Just some guesses, I wasn’t around when the decisions were made:

More powerful, rimless ammo.
A stronger, modern clip-loaded Mauser inspired action.
Then, ultimately it fired better bullets (with the changes in ‘06 and spitzers) and the ammo had later compatibility with M1919 machine guns.

Stay safe.
 
Both the Krag rifle and cartridge were an attempt to upgrade the US military to arms produced by Mauser that were being adopted worldwide. Both were archaic when compared to the Mausers and were little more than a stopgap.

The 03 Springfield was a blatant copy of the Mauser action and the 30-06 (when adopted 3 years later) a much superior cartridge than the 30-40.

That being said, the Krag action might be the smoothest bolt action I have ever experienced. I'm amazed the the loose magazine works as well as it does, or even at all.
 
You might find this video informative.



Short answer: the M93 Mauser was judged to perform better than the US Krag in the fighting in Cuba during the Spanish American War. The rimmed 30-40 cartridge also posed its own set of limitations.

Personally, I think the worst thing you could say about the 1903 Springfield is that it should have used the 03A3 aperture sight from the start.
 
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This is worth reading to get a flavor of military attitudes that led to the selection of the Krag

US Army Rifle and Carbine Adoption between 1865 and 1900

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA471224


Page 50

“The Krag’s performance during these tests was representative of contemporary arms but the Board felt the Krag displayed superiority in two areas. The characteristics of the Krag that gave it the advantage over the Lee and Mauser rifles included its smooth action and more importantly the capacity for reloading while ready to fire. “


It is interesting to think of all the issues that surfaced later, of what the board did not consider to be important. No consideration for cost or ease of manufacture for example. What was of primary importance at the time was the conservation of ammunition in combat. If you read enough, you see the American military leaders of the period thought of warfare as long range sniping between units, where the Officers on the line made sure soldiers had their weapons on single shot only, and the magazine was only to be used in emergencies. It was all about ammunition conservation and rapid fire reloading was not desired. Note, the Mausers rifles used stripper clips, the Krag had a side box where loose rounds were dropped in. And the Krag and the M1903 both have magazine cut off’s. Mauser patterns of the late 1888’s and the revolutionary M1893, did not have magazine cut off’s. It is hard to believe now, but the 19th century Ordnance Department did not want weapons that shot too much ammunition too quickly! I have read a number of accounts, going back to the Mexican American War, about the Ordnance Department rejecting weapon designs that allowed soldier’s to “waste ammunition” in combat. This is clearly the tail wagging the dog, and you will find such objections in the Civil War, used against successful rifles such as the Spencer carbine. It is curious that those in Logistics and Supply were actively able to stifle rapid fire weapon advancement because that made their job easier. It was difficult to supply units, it was difficult in the 19th century to move food and munitions over dirt rutted roads, and those difficulties overrode the tactical advantages of rapid firing weapons.

The Krag magazine cut off is on the left side, right side is the magazine box. The box is opened and loose round poured in. I have tried to load this thing in old bolt gun matches at our Gun Club. It is just about impossible to load in any timely fashion during the rapid fire stages. Rounds always spill out.

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At least the M1903 has a stripper clip slot on the left, and was designed to be loaded, in emergencies, with stripper clips.

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However, the thought of the time was, single shot with the magazine held in reserve.

Magazine cutoff M1903, magazine OFF, single shot only.

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Magazine cutoff ON, able to feed rounds from magazine

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I do remember reading in 1920’s Arms in the Man magazines and a number of writer’s commenting that one of the reasons the M1903 rifle was superior to the Mauser M98 was because of the smooth operation and less bolt wobble. Captain Crossman in his book of the Springfield claims the M1903 is superior to the Mauser because of “superior workmanship” and smoothness of operation. I think these considerations to show that generation of weapon decision makers, going back to the Committee that picked the Krag, to be weapon hobbyists. They are picking weapons based on their personal preferences, and not on military utility. The M1903, in every point of departure from the M1898 Mauser is an inferior weapon. One that is weaker, more prone to breakage, lose its bedding, and has no shooter protection features. (the gas vent hole is like the “close door” button in the elevator. It makes you feel good, but it does nothing)

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Sure, the M903 bolt wobbles less when open, and to the decision makers of the period, that made all the difference for a military weapon. Imagine if they thought "pretty" was the most important characteristic of a weapon, what a disaster that would have been.

The Spanish armed their Army with M1893 Mausers, and at San Juan Hill Puerto Rico, 500 Spanish soldiers armed with stripper clip reloading Mausers held off 10 times their number of American’s and inflicted twice the number of causalities. After the Spanish American War it became very obvious that the trapdoor Springfield and the Krag were technologically obsolete military weapons.

It is surprising to see WW1 American Soldiers marching through the streets of London, carrying Krag rifles.

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WW1 American Soldiers marching through the streets of London, carrying Krag rifles.
Probably NG troops. AEF primarily carried the M-1917, as that was the only rifle on hand in a large enough quantity to arm the entirety of the AEF.
Alvin York trained on a 1903, but won his Medal with a 1917.

Also, the M-1903 rifle was adopted with the US Cal..30 1903 ammo. The Government .30-03 used a round nosed 200gr round--despite the "lessons learned" facing Spanish Mausers (which may or may not have had Spitzer bullets--historians now disagree).

The 30-03 round was not a huge amount better than the 30-40; now, the 30-40 versus the 30-06, particularly the 172gr FMJBT is almost no contest.

Now, where the comparisons get very interesting is looking at the 6mm Lee Adopted by the Navy Department versus the contemporary 30-40 Krag adopted by the War Department. The 6mm Lee was a barrel burner with the metallurgy of the day, and well ahead of its time. The straight pull made for a different arm than the Krag, too.
 
Imagine digging loose rounds out of your pocket to plunk one by one from your shaky, cold, and muddy fingers into the open side port on your rifle as bullets wizz over your head and shells explode around you. Meanwhile the enemy loads their mausers from stripper clips and can pour out fire at what seams like a non stop rate. After your done with that jump up and run across a field and fall down prone on the other side only to find you accidently flipped your magazine open and all your ammo is laying in the dirt someplace.

They are wonderfully elegant rifles, but they are not exactly the greatest battle implement ever devised.
 
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You might find this video informative.



Short answer: the M93 Mauser was judged to perform better than the US Krag in the fighting in Cuba during the Spanish American War. The rimmed 30-40 cartridge also posed its own set of limitations.

Personally, I think the worst thing you could say about the 1903 Springfield is that it should have used the 03A3 aperture sight from the start.

VERY interesting video! Thanks!
I've never shot anything but paper with the Krag so I didn't realize it had an inferior cartridge.
I'm guessing that I was so impressed by the smooth action & the magic of the magazine that not much else mattered.
 
The ballistic performance difference between the .30-40 Krag (220 gr RNFMJ @ 2000 fps) and 7mm Mauser (173 gr RNFMJ @ 2300) is not drastic.

I will concede that the sustained clip loaded firepower of the Mauser is higher, but it's interesting to note the Krag's ability to fire while being reloaded, something the Mauser is incapable of doing. This is not unlike hatred for pistol magazine disconnects, which provide the same limitation.
 
There is an interesting story on how my family obtained this carbine to be passed through the generations.
My grandfather entered the army just after the Spanish American War. He was issued this particular carbine when it was new. It is a Springfield 1898 model.
As a cook, he wasn't first in line to be issued the new 03 Springfield. As it turned out he kept that same rifle to the end of WW1.
By this time the Krag model was VERY obsolete.
As he was being discharged, an offer was made for him to buy the rifle. The army deducted $5 from his final pay for it.
I don't know what that equates to in today's dollars but it still seems like a real bargain for an essentially new carbine.
I have all the documentation somewhere. I also have his web belt, canteen & cartridge box. All in pristine condition.
He hunted with that carbine well into his senior years. When he passed in 1965, it was passed to my father.
When my father passed in 2000, it was handed down to me. I feel quite honored to be the recipient of such a treasured heirloom! And yes, it will be passed to my son when the time comes.
Unlike my father, I have shot it (with some mild loads) and it performed flawlessly.
I've only seen two other Krag carbines. One was in a museum and the other was for sale in a pawn shop for a ridiculously high price. Both were showing extreme wear. I've seen many rifled, some in exceptionally fine condition. Apparently the carbines are somewhat rare.
I removed the original stock for safe keeping as it didn't have even the slightest blemish on it. I wasn't going to be the one to put the first scratch on it. Like I said, I took it out & shot it... so just in handling / transportation there was risk. Slight but still risk.
Perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but out of four kids, I was the one entrusted with it's preservation... and for good reason.
I have absolutely no doubt my son will protect it as well.
 
This is worth reading to get a flavor of military attitudes that led to the selection of the Krag

US Army Rifle and Carbine Adoption between 1865 and 1900

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA471224


Page 50

“The Krag’s performance during these tests was representative of contemporary arms but the Board felt the Krag displayed superiority in two areas. The characteristics of the Krag that gave it the advantage over the Lee and Mauser rifles included its smooth action and more importantly the capacity for reloading while ready to fire. “


It is interesting to think of all the issues that surfaced later, of what the board did not consider to be important. No consideration for cost or ease of manufacture for example. What was of primary importance at the time was the conservation of ammunition in combat. If you read enough, you see the American military leaders of the period thought of warfare as long range sniping between units, where the Officers on the line made sure soldiers had their weapons on single shot only, and the magazine was only to be used in emergencies. It was all about ammunition conservation and rapid fire reloading was not desired. Note, the Mausers rifles used stripper clips, the Krag had a side box where loose rounds were dropped in. And the Krag and the M1903 both have magazine cut off’s. Mauser patterns of the late 1888’s and the revolutionary M1893, did not have magazine cut off’s. It is hard to believe now, but the 19th century Ordnance Department did not want weapons that shot too much ammunition too quickly! I have read a number of accounts, going back to the Mexican American War, about the Ordnance Department rejecting weapon designs that allowed soldier’s to “waste ammunition” in combat. This is clearly the tail wagging the dog, and you will find such objections in the Civil War, used against successful rifles such as the Spencer carbine. It is curious that those in Logistics and Supply were actively able to stifle rapid fire weapon advancement because that made their job easier. It was difficult to supply units, it was difficult in the 19th century to move food and munitions over dirt rutted roads, and those difficulties overrode the tactical advantages of rapid firing weapons.

The Krag magazine cut off is on the left side, right side is the magazine box. The box is opened and loose round poured in. I have tried to load this thing in old bolt gun matches at our Gun Club. It is just about impossible to load in any timely fashion during the rapid fire stages. Rounds always spill out.

View attachment 1058526


At least the M1903 has a stripper clip slot on the left, and was designed to be loaded, in emergencies, with stripper clips.

View attachment 1058527

However, the thought of the time was, single shot with the magazine held in reserve.

Magazine cutoff M1903, magazine OFF, single shot only.

View attachment 1058528

Magazine cutoff ON, able to feed rounds from magazine

View attachment 1058529

I do remember reading in 1920’s Arms in the Man magazines and a number of writer’s commenting that one of the reasons the M1903 rifle was superior to the Mauser M98 was because of the smooth operation and less bolt wobble. Captain Crossman in his book of the Springfield claims the M1903 is superior to the Mauser because of “superior workmanship” and smoothness of operation. I think these considerations to show that generation of weapon decision makers, going back to the Committee that picked the Krag, to be weapon hobbyists. They are picking weapons based on their personal preferences, and not on military utility. The M1903, in every point of departure from the M1898 Mauser is an inferior weapon. One that is weaker, more prone to breakage, lose its bedding, and has no shooter protection features. (the gas vent hole is like the “close door” button in the elevator. It makes you feel good, but it does nothing)

View attachment 1058530

Sure, the M903 bolt wobbles less when open, and to the decision makers of the period, that made all the difference for a military weapon. Imagine if they thought "pretty" was the most important characteristic of a weapon, what a disaster that would have been.

The Spanish armed their Army with M1893 Mausers, and at San Juan Hill Puerto Rico, 500 Spanish soldiers armed with stripper clip reloading Mausers held off 10 times their number of American’s and inflicted twice the number of causalities. After the Spanish American War it became very obvious that the trapdoor Springfield and the Krag were technologically obsolete military weapons.

It is surprising to see WW1 American Soldiers marching through the streets of London, carrying Krag rifles.

View attachment 1058531

View attachment 1058532
It's difficult to imagine so much concern over the conservation of ammo in battle.
I'm a Vietnam vet & one of the first things I noticed is that Americans aren't shy when it comes to pulling the trigger. We definitely burned up our share of ammo!
Different times, different weapons.
 
It's difficult to imagine so much concern over the conservation of ammo in battle.
I'm a Vietnam vet & one of the first things I noticed is that Americans aren't shy when it comes to pulling the trigger. We definitely burned up our share of ammo!
Different times, different weapons.

Well, by the time WWII rolled around, soldiers with the M1 were also not too concerned with burning up ammo. !! And when a bunch of M1's opened up, them slick clip fast loading Mausers didn't seem so hot. Of course, the Germans had the MG34 and '42, but that...is another story!
 
President Roosevelt fought in Cuba during the Spanish American War and found the 7x57 cartridge in Mauser rifles far superior. So, he wanted US military forces equipped with something similar. We copied the Mauser and built a .30 cal cartridge a bit more powerful than the x57, so that ours would go to 11.

I am a Krag fan, both the rifle and the cartridge. But I think if we had taken the rifle AND the Norwegian-Swedish 6.5x55, the Krag would have served up through WWI, possibly with a third lug at some point, the Garand in 6.5x55 would have been even better, and we may never have been saddled with the pedestrian 308 Win, or even the Poodle Shooter. Though, had that denied us the AR15/M16 family, that would have been most unfortunate…But an AR rifle in a short 6.5 mm round, well, priceless.

But then, as I have heard tell, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be like Christmas.
 
President Roosevelt fought in Cuba during the Spanish American War and found the 7x57 cartridge in Mauser rifles far superior. So, he wanted US military forces equipped with something similar. We copied the Mauser and built a .30 cal cartridge a bit more powerful than the x57, so that ours would go to 11.

I am a Krag fan, both the rifle and the cartridge. But I think if we had taken the rifle AND the Norwegian-Swedish 6.5x55, the Krag would have served up through WWI, possibly with a third lug at some point, the Garand in 6.5x55 would have been even better, and we may never have been saddled with the pedestrian 308 Win, or even the Poodle Shooter. Though, had that denied us the AR15/M16 family, that would have been most unfortunate…But an AR rifle in a short 6.5 mm round, well, priceless.

But then, as I have heard tell, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be like Christmas.
Other than trying to devour my thumb every time I tried to load it, the M1 Garrand was one of my favorites. It took me forever to figure out how to do it right.
But... aside from that, if you feel the need to "reach out & touch someone" that's a great rifle to start with.
 
The army moved to replace the Krag shortly after the Spanish-American war. Allegedly this was because the 7x57 Spanish Mausers were notably superior to the Krags, especially in terms of A) flatter trajectory B) faster stripper clip loading and C) cost.

The reality, I think, is that it’s a lot easier for generals under some political heat to blame the tool and cite the enemy’s technology, rather than admit that their poor planning and logistics led directly to the bloody business of frontal assaults on fortified Spanish hilltop positions.

Was the 03 superior to the Krag as a military rifle? Definitely. Was it so superior as to make much difference? I doubt it, in the real world.
 
Well, by the time WWII rolled around, soldiers with the M1 were also not too concerned with burning up ammo. !!
Military historian / analyst Brig. Gen. S. L. A. Marshall found an extreme reluctance by soldiers to fire their rifles in battle. In his book, Men Against Fire, he claimed that less than 25% ever fired their guns. This finding has been disputed, but the general thrust of the argument remains valid.

His best-known book, Men Against Fire, is at least in part, and perhaps wholly, a work of fiction. Yet it has been, and unfortunately continues to be, read by generations of officers and historians who have subsequently applied the “lessons learned” to their own work. Faced with the “facts of combat” such as the ratio of fire provided in Men Against Fire, even writers of U.S. Army doctrine modified texts in an attempt to overcome the problems Marshall outlined.

https://www.historynet.com/long-dead-hand-s-l-marshall-misleads-historians.htm
 
I have a Krag rifle gifted to me by an old friend of the family. It had been a parade rifle that had a bright chromed finish and a heavily varnished stock. Thought about converting it into a carbine model but decided to leave it in it's original state.

Instead I decided to strip off the chrome plating, lightly sand down the varnished stock, have it rust blued, and refinish the stock myself. I proceeded to remove the plating by letting it soak it Hoppe's No.9, which because it's a copper solvent it went after the thin layer of copper plating that was underneath the chrome plating. Had all the parts (except for the bolt as I read somewhere that bolts were left in the white), shipped out to a company that did rebluing.

Next I lightly sanded the wood pieces to remove the varnish but not alter any of the wood's contours and government markings. I then stained the wood and sealed it with Tung Oil. Turned out decent enough and still has the smoothest bolt action of any U.S. service rifle I have tried.
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