308 vs 6.5

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I just purchased a clearance 6.5c plastic stock Savage, the stock does flex, the only place the action/barrel touches is at the front action screw. My SIL has a Savage that has a stiffer camo stock in 308w, we had to remove a couple of burrs on his stock. I am looking forward to comparing them when it cools off. Also look at the 243 for accuracy, I think it would shoot well with the other two and recoil would be lighter.
 
If it's purely for shooting steel, and especially at longer ranges, I'd go with the Creedmoor. Past 500 yards or so is where it really starts to pull away from the .308 ballistically.

A short while back I was making a choice between the two but ended up with a 308. Reason being, I don't have a place to shoot long range and I was looking at power inside of 200 yards for potential hog hunting. At those ranges, 308 wins in ft/lbs of energy into the target. Cost is almost a wash anymore, though 308 does come in a smidge cheaper for brass cased FMJ. 308 does have the advantage of having steel cased options that are often cheaper, but I personally avoid steel cased ammo.
 
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I really like both cartridges, but I feel the 6.5 is a better target round for long range. Less recoil, better BC, longer supersonic range, etc...

800 yards is still easily within the realistic parameters of 308 though.

Cost really isn't much of a factor anymore. 6.5 has been a popular round for a decade now and is easily found. You can get cheap ammo from S&B or American Gunner that still make regular hits out to 1200 yards.
 
Thats why you upgrade to a Boyds stock and your savage axis rifle can do this repeatedly. That’s two 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Yeah, there is a flyer but not bad for such a POS hunting rifle. This is an axis II heavy barrel with 18x scope in a Boyd’s classic stock and accu trigger. Even my axis i sport barrel holds an inch or more.

I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt by my accurate description of a Savage Axis. I congratulate you on the accuracy of your rifle at 100 yards after additional expense to rectify some of the problems that I pointed out. Now, if you would be so kind, please show us the results at 800 yards.
 
I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt by my accurate description of a Savage Axis. I congratulate you on the accuracy of your rifle at 100 yards after additional expense to rectify some of the problems that I pointed out. Now, if you would be so kind, please show us the results at 800 yards.
Feeling werent hurt at all..Just gets a little annoying with some people never shooting the axis or just handling one in the store or reading other stuff online and saying they are crap. Not everyone has $$ to sink $1000 into a rifle. I sure dont. As for the added expense.. Its a $130 stock that I would have upgraded anyway had it been a model 10 or a remington 700. I like the weight of the laminate, the look and the feel. Being a large man some rifles dont fit me well so Boyds it was. The fact that I could use a bipod on it was just icing on the cake. Check out the savage axis inaccurate thread and find the pictures with the red diamonds. Those and the green shoot n c were all shot with the plastic stock. Just gotta make sure the rest is closer to the magazine so it doesnt make the stock touch the barrel. I did take it out to 300yards on a very windy day and was crunched for time. With a hot barrel and wind it kept MOA at 300yards with several different loads. I can take a woochucks head off at 300yards with it so I'm happy. Its a 223rem so I am sure 800 yards wouldnt work so well. I may run out of scope adjustments before I even get there. :)
 
The axis is a cheap rifle with a cheesy finish and action, and floppy tupperware stocks. However savage produces fantastic barrels and they shoot very well. The few I've been around shot 1 moa or better with proper technique, which is plenty enough mechanical accuracy to shoot steel at 800 yards. A boyds stock is a great upgrade and the axis II has a great trigger that can be tweaked. There is nothing wrong at all with buying a cheap but accurate rifle on a budget to learn with. Better to have a $300 rifle and $700 for ammo than a $1000 and no money for ammo. Or worse yet discouraging someone from buying a rifle at all. Not everyone has the means to buy top shelf or even mid shelf rifles, and certainly not to buy $3000 optics. Lets try to be helpful and not discourage people. The first step is to get out and do it. Upgrades can come later.
 
The axis is a cheap rifle with a cheesy finish and action, and floppy tupperware stocks. However savage produces fantastic barrels and they shoot very well. The few I've been around shot 1 moa or better with proper technique, which is plenty enough mechanical accuracy to shoot steel at 800 yards. A boyds stock is a great upgrade and the axis II has a great trigger that can be tweaked. There is nothing wrong at all with buying a cheap but accurate rifle on a budget to learn with. Better to have a $300 rifle and $700 for ammo than a $1000 and no money for ammo. Or worse yet discouraging someone from buying a rifle at all. Not everyone has the means to buy top shelf or even mid shelf rifles, and certainly not to buy $3000 optics. Lets try to be helpful and not discourage people. The first step is to get out and do it. Upgrades can come later.

Thanks for giving your opinion. I do not share it.

The Savage Axis is not the platform on which to build an 800 yard target rifle. I have explained why it is not. You need not agree, but the suggestion that providing the OP with accurate, factual information on a rifle that he wants for the purpose of 800 yard shooting is "not helpful" is incorrect.

I would like to compete at the highest levels of showjumping. Sadly, I have neither the skill nor the financial wherewithal to do so. Knowing that is disappointing, but it is helpful. Trying to turn an entry level deer rifle into a mid-long range target rifle is inefficient, to say the least. Silk purse and sow"s ear seems more to the point. One can start with a better platform - like the Savage 110 action I proposed - and build from there with much more likelihood of success. As to optics, I am unaware of cheap optics suitable for 800 yards target shooting, but I am prepared to be enlightened. What do you imagine to be the cost of a spotting scope alone capable of 800 yard work?

Finally, I would suggest that it is more discouraging for a neophyte to buy a rifle that is incapable of doing what he wishes it to do than being told that what he wishes to do requires a good deal of skill (developed with time and money) and some rather more expensive equipment than he might imagine.
 
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I've currently got a very nice tuned up R700 in 308. Also pretty heavily invested in reloading 308.

When it needs rebarreled, it's becoming a 6.5 or 6 creed at that time.
 
Whatever the aspiration, it can be good to start slow... get a decent rifle and sight and get good with it at 100, 200, 300 yards... see how far it goes, then figure what you need to go farther. At some point, you may find yourself shooting 800-1000yds.

I'm not going to knock the Savage Axis as a hunting rifle... that's what it's marketed as. I recall hearing other accounts where a Boyd's stock gave a huge improvement in accuracy. However, while an Axis will throw a bullet capable of landing 800-1000yds out, it doesn't mean it'll do it more accurately. Ammo selection will matter too. A heavier bullet in heavier barrel with a faster twist.

While the Axis seems pretty popular as a budget deer rifle... and, hey, it's a Savage... it's not a service grade crankbolt that's geared sightwise for the extended ranges the way an '03A3 is.
 
Thanks for giving your opinion. I do not share it.

The Savage Axis is not the platform on which to build an 800 yard target rifle. I have explained why it is not. You need not agree, but the suggestion that providing the OP with accurate, factual information on a rifle that he wants for the purpose of 800 yard shooting is, indeed, helpful.

I would like to compete at the highest levels of showjumping. Sadly, I have neither the skill nor the financial wherewithal to do so. Knowing that is disappointing, but it is helpful. Trying to turn an entry level deer rifle into a mid-long range target rifle is inefficient, to say the least. Silk purse and sow"s ear seems more to the point. One can start with a better platform - like the Savage 110 action I proposed - and build from there with much more likelihood of success. As to optics, I am unaware of cheap optics suitable for 800 yards target shooting, but I am prepared to be enlightened. What do you imagine to be the cost of a spotting scope alone capable of 800 yard work?

Finally, I would suggest that it is more discouraging for a neophyte to buy a rifle that is incapable of doing what he wishes it to do than being told that what he wishes to do requires a good deal of skill (developed with time and money) and some rather more expensive equipment than he might imagine.

I only shoot to 600 because that is all the room I have where I shoot, but I have done so with several "deer rifles", varmint rifles, and AR15's, none of which have expensive optics. Most of my optics are in the $200 to $300 range, some of which are used.

To your point about competing in the highest levels of showjumping, well nobody is talking about going and winning PRS matches with an axis, he just wants to get something to have recreational fun at the range within his budget. I would surely hope that you still ride for fun even if you can not be a competitive rider.

Here is an example of someone making hits at 1000 yards with cheap factory ammo in a savage axis with a $100 nikon 3x9 deer rifle scope. You make it out to be impossible and it is not. I would not personally buy an Axis for this purpose, my long range rifle is built on a savage 10, but if an axis II is what someone can afford so be it. An economical nikon 4-16 or vortex 6.5-20 or similar is perfectly adequate to have recreational fun at these ranges with reasonable size targets.



To the OP, don't listen to the naysayers. Get a rifle, go have fun. Sure looks like he is having fun! :thumbup:
 
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I only shoot to 600 because that is all the room I have where I shoot, but I have done so with several "deer rifles", varmint rifles, and AR15's, none of which have expensive optics. Most of my optics are in the $200 to $300 range, some of which are used.

Here is an example of someone making hits at 1000 yards with cheap factory ammo in a savage axis with a $100 nikon 3x9 deer rifle scope. You make it out to be impossible and it is not. I would not personally buy an Axis for this purpose, but long range rifle is built on a savage 10, but if an axis II is what someone can afford so be it. An economical nikon 4-16 or vortex 6.5-20 or similar is perfectly adequate to have recreational fun at these ranges with reasonable size targets.



To the OP, don't listen to the naysayers. Get a rifle, go have fun. Sure looks like he is having fun! :thumbup:



And here's video of people making amazing basketball shots.



So?
 
The Savage Axis is a budget/entry level hunting rifle and, in that role, is a good value for money proposition. As a target rifle, particularly at the ranges you propose, it will never be suitable no matter what caliber it is chambered in. It's light, notoriously poorly bedded, has a relatively flexy stock, and its recoil "lug" is not ideally suited. For 800 yard work, you will need to spend @ 4-5 times the cost of the rifle in glass.

This idea is a waste of your time and money. You can get a used Savage 110 action target rig and decent glass for under a grand with patience. A Savage Axis is an entry level deer rifle.

For example: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/savage-axis-poor-accuracy.873173/#post-11601791
I agree with that in a lot of ways.

From my experience the STOCK AXIS tend to be very mechanically accurate, with little or no difference between the heavies (only shot one of those, so take it for what its worth), and the lights. BUT the stock rifles tend to be difficult to shoot consistently as compared to many others.
https://rifleshooter.com/2016/05/customizing-the-savage-axis-easy-upgrades-that-enhance-performance/ list the upgrades (tho id have got with a more traditional Boyds ProV stock, and saved 200 bucks) ID want as a minimum on an Axis rifle i was going to keep.

That dosent mean that someone CANT take an Axis to 1k or more, In fact its probably quite common for at least some Axis rifles to be shoot at that distance. If the gun and shooter are capable of producing consistent 1moa or less groups at 100yds, then they should technically be able to produce similar results at any range beyond that (as long as their ability to read, and compensate for environmentals is good enough).

Where I think the stock Axis, and my beloved Americans for that matter, struggle is making it easy to deliver consistent performance, at least for less seasoned shooters.

Case in point.
(Im not saying Im a great, or even good shot, in relating this story, but im pretty consistent within my limitations, and regularly deal with less than spectacular rifles)
I helped a friend sight his Axis .223 at the range last saturday. Box stock, used, and still had the cheap package scope it came with.
I sighted it, shot a decent group and turned it over to my buddy who ISNT a rifle nut (yet). His groups were well over double what I got, so we swapped back, and the gun turned in another decent group.
He spent some time shooting my Ruger American (in a boyds stock with trigger work, decent scope, and significantly more weight), and produced much, much better groups. I attribute that mostly to the fact that the Rugers a lot easier to shoot than the Axis, as its not any more mechanically accurate (from what i could tell after firing 12 or 13 shots)


I also dont think the Axis is a great platform to START a build specifically for long range shooting, mostly because for the cost of all the upgrades it would take to make them as user friendly as id like. You might as well buy a higher end rifle.

that dosent mean someone who WANTS to use an Axis for such, shouldnt do it (Heck, ive done way less practical/sensible stuff just to say i did it), or wont be able to achieve what they want. Just that you need to realize WHY your doing it. It also helps if your willing to do a bunch of tinkering with the stock components.

Also to be fair, there are very few budget-middling factory guns Im 100% comfortable with. I really like Ruger Americans, but every one ive had, has at least gotten a stock change. I like Savage 110/10s but they also usually get modifications. ALL rifles get bedded and floated. The only gun I own that hasnt had anything major (beyond bedding and a new bolt knob) is my Ridgeline.
 
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Most of my experience is with the 308, through rifles like the M24 and the SR25. They do well, and we shot them further than the 800 yard max that everyone seems to think is their limit. I have a 6.5 CM that I have minimal experience with. It is a fairly lightweight rifle (Ruger American) that shoots much better than a $400 rifle should. Recoil is minimal, and considerably less felt recoil that an identical rifle in 308 would inflict. The 6.5 CM is doing amazing things in the tactical world, in long range matches, and in the deer stands. I thoroughly enjoy mine, but mine is just a hunting rifle- which means that it is rarely fired. Like 1 box of ammo a year, if that. It is my understanding that the 6.5 CM doesn't have near the barrel life of a 308, which may be something to consider if you are planning to rack up a high round count on the rifle you decide to get.
 
Just looking to ring steel. I dont think I am going to walk out there and setup on the 800 and start hitting. I am proficient to 300yards and was able to hit a 4-5'' steel gong 49 out of 50 times at 300yards last summer. I just want something to get my feet wet and see how it goes and then upgrade if I like it and am good at it.

@Nature Boy thats a good one! Actually made me laugh. I am not recoil shy. I love shooting my 45-70 marlin with a mid 50gr range of IMR4198 and 300gr bullets. My girlfriend showed intrest in going with me and this place also offers a league and classes so I figured the 6.5 would be better for both her and me so I can shoot a bit longer without getting a flinch after 20-30rds.
 
As for .308's "limit' a couple years ago 3 of us entered a local club's LR match called "Snipergeddon" which was a 300-1 mile yd elimination match. You had to get a hit on a 24" gong in 5rds before you could move back to the next distance.Trick was, due to how the targets were arrayed in the tall grass, you couldn't spot your misses. The majority of the shooters fell by the wayside at the 800 yd mark. I made it to 1200 yds with a 1st rd hit, but couldn't connect at 1500 with my 6mm SLR. That put me at 16th out of 114 shooters due to a 2nd rd hit at 1200.

Friend of mine "wrung what he brung", which was a REM 700P in .308 shooting his normal 168 grn load with an old Leupold 1" tube SFP MK4. He also made it to 1200, all 1st rd hits, but didn't go to 1500 because he was out of turret and reticle. He ended up in 12th place overall and won the .308 category.

3 of us normally practice together out to the 760yds we can get on my place; 6mm SLR (105 Hybrid at 3150), 6.5C (143 at 2730) and a .308 (168 at 2650 or so). About the only difference I see is the 6.5 and .308 needing a little more windage..
 
Solid points were exposed here and in another threads.
Being an old fart that need glass for anything that has a trigger, reduce my options.
All the arguments are valid 308 will have a solid array of options from reloading ammo to rifle brands, 6,5 CR is a great cartridge with a tad lighter hump and flat trayectory that out perform the 308 at the end of fly.
However, if you shoot it once per season it's fine, for heavy usage keep the bolt along with another barrel.
I would like to know better how the 6,5 cr perform with heavy winds against the 308.
For this cranky old fart if Idon't shoot 308 on semi/bolt rifle, I do fetch my 6,5 sweden which is accurate and a pleasure to carry and shoot.
BTW, I would like to have a 6,5 sweden in semi auto rifle.
 
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