357 Supermag or 45 ACP for Bear?

[Buck Snort]

McGunner wrote: "Actually, I've hiked many a mile unarmed in bear country. If you're afraid, don't go."

Prudent precautions are always appropriate, especially when kids are involved.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Since he's not a gun owner, I'd say the revolver just for safety's sake. Really though, as others have pointed out, a couple hundred bucks for an old Sears pump gun would be the best choice.

Handguns may be OK for black bears in the hands of an experienced shooter, but this guy isn't an experienced shooter and shooting at paper a few times on the range isn't the same as dealing with a threat.

 

[MCgunner]

Handguns may be OK for black bears in the hands of an experienced shooter, but this guy isn't an experienced shooter and shooting at paper a few times on the range isn't the same as dealing with a threat.

+1 I had the same thoughts. Shooting a handgun at paper is hard enough if you're not well practiced. Shooting at a charging animal, well, he might be better off with a long gun since it's for the cabin, anyway.

 

[NCsmitty]

Fatelvis, I see that you live in the gun friendly state of IL , and I'm wondering if you can actually give your handgun to an unlicensed individual to carry under the laws of IL. Is this legal to do? Don't you have to have an FOID card, or something like that?
Just wondering about the legalities involved, by giving your handgun to your friend.

Under the circumstances, it would seem that a shotgun would be safer to handle and provide a much more powerful deterrent loaded with slugs.

If he's been laid off then what's he doing renting a cabin in Colorado

I was wondering that as I read the thread.



NCsmitty

 

[monkeyjump]

I agree, what ever he is more likely to get a accurate shot with. besides that I would go with the .357.
if he is inexperienced with guns I would be worried about giving him one at all. no offense I just think an inexperienced person with a gun is more dangerous than a bear

 

[maxxborist]

this guy killed a bear with a .45

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/05/grizzly-bear-shot-and-killed-hikers-denali-national-park-and-preserve5943

 

[7.62 Nato]

In Michigan we can't lend/borrow handguns without a CPL. I'm not sure if there are any other legal considerations if it was taken out of state. I agree with the shotgun suggestion, 12 ga. with slugs. I prefer Remington Copper Solids.

I don't remember hearing of a .357 Super Mag but I have seen .357 Maximum. How do they compare ?

 

[Fatelvis]

If he's been laid off then what's he doing renting a cabin in Colorado

Good question: we're both Union Sprinklerfitters, and we're both waiting for the work to come back, so we can go back to life as usual. Fortunately, he wasnt living beyond his means before getting laid off, and his wife's job is able to let them scrape by. While waiting for work to return he figured they would drive somewhere, and take a nice CHEAP family vacation. He was able to rent the cabin for peanuts. I've had My FOID for years, and just convinced him to get his,(as well as joining the NRA), and it arrived about a month ago. Now hes ready to buy some toys when he starts drawing a paycheck every week!

I don't remember hearing of a .357 Super Mag but I have seen .357 Maximum. How do they compare ?

7.62, the 357SM is almost the same as the Maximum, but is slightly longer, and I believe a little higher pressure. I think the 357 Supermag is only offered in Dan Wesson revolvers. The Max shoots fine in them though.

 

[Working Man]

From what you listed, I'd go with the .357 (as others said for penetration) in a hard cast. To be honest if there is bear, I would not go with anything less than a .44 magnum (Garrett Cartridges) but preferably my BFR in .45-70. It may be overkill, but that’s just fine with me.

 

[lobo9er]

hes laid off but renting a vacation cabin in colorado? And cant afford to buy a used 12 gauge.

 

[sonier]

lobo that seems off topic, moving on I have riden on horseback 100000s of times lol I live in prime bear country, i have seen LOADS of black bears, they are usually non agressive, laid back and scared. I have encountered many on the trail riding and i can say i have never had a problem scaring the bears away, i always carry a 357 magnum and i know it would do the job very easly, black bears are little. some may say 400 pounds is big but i have a hog in the pen outside my house that weighs 400 pounds. ALSO CDOW colorado division of wildlife, they do not take lightly to bears being shot, you must be in IMMINENT DANGER to use lethal force on a bear or else your gona have a reallllll stout fine. CDOW offices give out free rubber slugs and buckshot, but if he must need a pistol the 357 supermag is well overpowered for the job so it would work well, A 45 acp would do just fine as well, people kill black bears with 9mms here in self defense situations. dont worry about bears in colorado and tell him to have fun

 

[Fatelvis]

Thanks Sonier and all. Admittedly we're both City-Slickers, and have never seen bears in the wild. Maybe we've been made paranoid by hearing the 'Ol saying "Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh get my 357"! LOL
Seriously, It's good to hear that most of you have seen them many times and have never been bothered by them.

 

[sonier]

every time ive seen a bear ive never thought to myself i need to draw my firearm or have one on hand. Its nice to have one makes you feel better but i dont worry if i dont have one on person, in all reality bears are not bad in colorado but the one thing you need to worry about is cougars, they dont have specific breeding times they can have cubs any time of the year which makes it unpredictable, weve lost livestock to cougars as well. A 45 will do fine against a cougar as well, i wouldnt use any expanding bullets, if im carrying on the trails i load semi wadcutters anything that will punch a decent hole. Bears are simple if you have trash they want trash and a good shooing and yelling usually gets them to go away, if that dont work a shot in the air does. Good luck stay safe have fun colorado is a beautiful place

 

[GJgo]

I've come across a lot more bear tracks & bear poop than I have bear. They're sneaky suckers, especially when you have a tag in your pocket! *pic*

Your friend will have to open carry his sidearm when he's here in CO. I say pick whichever one comes with the most comfortable holster.

To be honest the only thing that makes me nervous in the up country are the moose we have now. Oh, and they've been finding wolf sign in some spots recently. Two more reasons to keep your wits about you.

 

[sonier]

I know every year around ber season those darn bears dissapear on me lol, dow shot and killed 2 wolves in our valley ive also seen a few round the house, we are over here by the sangre de cristos no moose here yet.

 

[Rexster]

I have not hunted bear, but have walked where they walk. I am fine with .357 Magnum. I don't own anything that shoots Supermag.

Phil Shoemaker, an Alaskan guide, does not feel that properly-loaded .357 mag is inadequate for grizzlies! He uses .44 mag himself, or at least did when he penned the recent article. His daughter wears a .357 K-frame sixgun. I am not going to put words in his mouth, and as I recall, he did have some instruction on how to use .357 against grizzlies. I take that as meaning I don't need to up-gun if walking among blackies.
Of course, I would not want to shoot a bear with ultra-expanding/fragmenting Federal Classic 125-grain .357. There is better for shooting big furry quadrupeds.

 

[robhof]

robhof

The unarmed people who are bothered by large black bears don't complain either, but their survivors do!!!

 

[sonier]

Robo that is why i do carry my 357 mag, but I believe in tradeing lightly and not using that unless i need too, but believe me if i have to use my 357 mag, or if there bear takes a different posture from scared to angry or intimidating, dont bet ill put a round next to him to start with, and wont hesitate to put one between his shoulders. Like ive said before though i raise sheep and they freerange in very ideal blackbear country, our dumpster gets raided on avg half dozen times a year. Even with this i m not worried only thing that i feel i should worry is a cougar, they are sneaky they stalk, and there cats, cats have very strong predator hunting instincts. I have been stalked by one before they are near invisible as it gets, MY horse was a mustang, and he wont spook on bears coyotes gunshots, but when he starts freaking out at dusk, and all the other animals are no where to be seen you know your being followed. Ive later seen my horse act this way after we have lost a few sheep to cougar attacks, after i put the pieces together, i havnt left without my 357 mag.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I vote for the 357 Supermag or 357 Maximum. You can really crank up some power with one of these:

 

[Confederate]

Penetration is the primary concern with bear, so the .45 is out.

The .357 has outstanding penetration with 158 gr. bullets and heavier. The .357 also works well against two-legged varmints. But here are some of my recommendations:

1) First and foremost, consider using a good brand of pepper spray. Cold Steel's Inferno is my favorite because it combines red and black peppers. The red pepper causes an involuntary shutdown of the respiratory system while the black pepper causes a person or animal to breathe it in. Pepper spray is extremely effective, and it causes no harm to the bear.

2) If you use a .357, don't shoot for the head, shoot for the nose. Even a venerable powerhouse like the .357 (which wowed the Highway Patrol with its penetration ability decades ago), will likely deflect off the bear's skull. By shooting at the nose or mouth, the bullet will either go into the bear's brain or sever the brain from the spinal cord.

3) In the event the bear is attacking someone else (another good reason for pepper spray), shoot between the head and shoulders of the bear, or go for the shoulder itself. That may allow you and the injured person to outrun the bear, especially downhill.

4) If you're in bear country, you're also most likely in mountain lion territory. If you're hiking, make sure that you refrain from running, and if you must tie a loose shoestring, get a good back drop, like a tree or rock. Running and bending down triggers a predatory response in animals. Cougars go for the back of the neck, while bears tend to check you out first. If you can, wear something that protects the back part of the neck. Children are especially vulnerable.

5) If you do have to shoot and kill an animal, make sure it's checked for rabies, if you can. Avoid contact with the animal once it's dead, as there may be diseases that can be passed on.

6) If you're traveling with another person and don't have a gun, remember the old adage: you don't have to outrun the bear. You only have to outrun the person you're with!

I hope these simple suggestions are of some worth. In all seriousness, though, I really recommend the pepper spray. There [/COLOR]are many good brands on the market, but I have personal experience with the Inferno.

.

 

[DWFan]

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[sonier]

confederate you are absolutely right on the cougara going for the back of the neck, i know from personal expierance on the sheep that was killed, which was in february, that no matter how much clothing is around the neck it is NOT going to stop a killing bite, the ewe that was killed had well over 6 inches of wool around her neck we had to get shears and razorblades and peel the skin back to just get to the neck bite. so i wouldnt burden myself with extra clothing its hot over here right now lol, i think im beating the dog on this thread we already answered the questions so im going to try to refrain from carrying on with more posts lol

 

[JWJacobVT]

Have him take either the S&W 19 or the Sig 220 or the Colt 1911, whichever he handles best and is most comfortable for him to carry daily. Then have him carry it where ever he goes in the back country. A pistol/shotgun/rifle in the cabin does little good if it's a half mile away while hiking/fishing etc. A shotgun would be great but not needed, the 357 mag or 45 ACP will work just fine. Besides shotguns get to be a pain, and are left in the cabin, then you don't have it when you need it. If I was headed to a CO backcountry vacation, I would be carrying my S&W 1006 and maybe a Walter p22. That's all, no shotgun, etc etc. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Bad Bob FL]

I went on a black bear trip to Prince William Sound in Alaska. 3 bears shot one shot each .308....30-06....300 win mag but the bullet placement on all three shots took out the lungs and pureed them. The bears were all over the islands and when they come out of hibernation they eat only kelp.......guess what....they walk out on the beach in broad daylight. If they see you first they hide...even at distance. In handguns I like my favorite: S&W Model 57 6 inch blue 41 mag...Buffalo Bore loads 170 grain JHP cruising at 1650 FPS. But if I had to shoot bear I would also carry the Ruger 45-70 with Buffalo Bore 405 Flat Nose going 2000 FPS.