.375 H&H Magnum

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Bobson

Bobson

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I don't want this to be a caliber war thread. I also don't want it to be a poser thread :p So let me start by making a couple of things clear.

I don't have the money for this rifle (or it's ammo, haha) right now. I'm still waiting for the Winchester M70 Extreme Weather in .270 to return from the Winchester plant with a repaired safety, so I can buy that. However, I'm pretty certain I want a rifle in .375 H&H for my next rifle.

I tend to stick to brands I know when it comes to products - especially products like firearms. With guns, I'm a 2-3 brand kind of guy, at most. As a result, my firearm collection will be tailored so that each weapon is one of the same 2-3 brands. Considering I'm buying an M70 in the near future, I want to find another M70 chambered in .375 H&H, for when I'm able to pick out my next rifle.

I want to hunt a Kodiak Bear at some point in my life; that's pretty much the most exotic bucket-list hunt I foresee for myself, because I'm not interested in hunting in Africa (but who knows what the future holds?). If I end up moving to Alaska later this year (explained in other threads), I suspect this opportunity to hunt Kodiak will come much sooner than later.

So considering all that, and the fact that I just enjoy researching my hobbies/interests, I want to ask how many of you actually have a rifle in .375 H&H Magnum? Because I'm looking for a Winchester M70 in this caliber, my options are the Model 70 Alaskan, and the Model 70 Safari Express. According to Winchester, each of these rifles weigh exactly 9 pounds (in the .375 H&H models). What are the differences between them (aside from the obvious things listed right there, such as barrel length, OAL, the difference in the stock, etc)?

I'm somewhat hesitant to ask this (due to the caliber war thing), but from all I've read, .375 H&H is an excellent choice for hunting Kodiak. From anyone who has firsthand experience hunting large, dangerous game, what say you?

Thanks a lot, folks. Any help is greatly appreciated. The more I learn about this caliber, the more information I want to find on it...
 
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You have good taste. I don't own a .375 H&H but do have the .300 H&H. Because of that I've done a lot of research on both cartridges. The .375 H&H is capable of taking anything on the planet from what I've read. Some consider it a little small for the heavy African stuff but it works.

From what I see on the rifles the biggest difference is the barrel length of 25" in the Alaskan and 24" for the Safari. My personal preference is 24" as the max.
 
I really like the .375 H&H. I have one in a Ruger Magnum. I have also shot my buddy's .375 H&H M700.

I was handling a new M70 Safari in 458 Win Mag at Cabellas a week or two ago. Man that was a nice gun. I could have bought it for about $1,260, but I just couldn't afford it. I would trade my Ruger for the M70 Safari given the chance. The Ruger is nice, but heavy as hell... literature says 10 pounds but I swear it must be 11 at least - I need to weigh it some day. Plus the "recoil pad" is a thin piece of hard rubber, unlike the nice thick pads on the M70 (and the M700). Best trigger, finish, and tied for best wood I have seen on a Ruger though.

Hornady Heavy Magnum loads are pretty brutal in my Ruger, but my buddy's M700 is tame enough with "normal" factory loads, even though it is much lighter at about 8 pounds.

I can't comment on the Alaskan as I have not seen one, but that Safari is a nice gun.
 
I'm gonna try to get to Cabela's tomorrow and handle both of em. Should get a much better idea of the differences, or at least help make up my mind on which one, if nothing else. I really like monte-carlo stocks, so that makes me think I'll prefer the Alaskan model.
 
I want one too! That's all I can really add, other than I like your choice of the Mod 70:cool:

I haven't hunted brown bears or know jack about the differences between the two rifles:(

Good luck!
 
You need to separate two things....

- You want a 375 H&H and it is perfectly fine, everyone want a new rifle....every excuse is good!!!

- You said you dream of a grizzly bear hunt.....FYI you do nto need a 375 to hunt grizzlyes....just to be precise...


From a 30-06 and up you are good to go....
 
I would think that the new .375 H&H Alaskan SS Laminate stock M70 would be ideal. For dangerous game (a category in which the Alaskan Brown Bear falls), controlled round feeding is preferred by many PHs.

I have a M70 EW in .30-06...it is accurate (<1 MOA), totally reliable and comes with a Bell & Carlson Al bedding block stock. I am very impressed with the smoothness of the action and quality of fit and finish.

Another possibility would be the Sako Kodiak in .375 H&H or the Ruger African in 9.3x62. You might also consider the Ruger Alaskan in .375 Ruger. I have very recently picked up a Ruger M77 International SS with a full stock in .308, a Lipsey's special run and am very impressed with the Ruger's fit, finish and shootability. It will not be my last Ruger.

FH
 
I would think that the new .375 H&H Alaskan SS Laminate stock M70 would be ideal. For dangerous game (a category in which the Alaskan Brown Bear falls), controlled round feeding is preferred by many PHs.

I have a M70 EW in .30-06...it is accurate (<1 MOA), totally reliable and comes with a Bell & Carlson Al bedding block stock. I am very impressed with the smoothness of the action and quality of fit and finish.

Another possibility would be the Sako Kodiak in .375 H&H or the Ruger African in 9.3x62. You might also consider the Ruger Alaskan in .375 Ruger. I have very recently picked up a Ruger M77 International SS with a full stock in .308, a Lipsey's special run and am very impressed with the Ruger's fit, finish, shoot ability and controlled round feed. It will not be my last Ruger.

FH
 
I have to admit I'm not exactly partial to a stainless action/barrel on a wood (or laminate) stock, but the Winchester Alaskan SS Laminate does look decent.

I don't really know anything about laminate stocks. Are they pretty durable? When I think laminate, durability isn't the first thing that comes to mind. To be fair though, I've never owned a rifle with one, so my opinion here isn't based on experience.
 
Laminated stocks are extremely durable, and are far stronger than a conventional wood stock. Plus they are more stable than wood stocks where humidity changes are concerned, it is nearly impossible to saturated one to the point of swelling. The only downside is they tend to be a bit heavier than a wood stock or a synthetic stock.
 
real world

I have hunted grizzly with a model 70 stainless synthetic in 375. The bear was quartering toward me at 170 yards. I shot him in the seam kinda where the front shoulder meets the neck. The bear did not take one step, and I think it was dead when it hit the ground. Upon inspection, the bullet exited the opposite hind quarter. It was 8' squared, so that's at least 5' of bear it penetrated. I was using remington premium factory ammo, with the swift A-frame bullet.
 
Coal Dragger said:
Laminated stocks are extremely durable, and are far stronger than a conventional wood stock. Plus they are more stable than wood stocks where humidity changes are concerned, it is nearly impossible to saturated one to the point of swelling. The only downside is they tend to be a bit heavier than a wood stock or a synthetic stock.
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Well that M70 Alaskan SS Laminate just went from looking decent to gorgeous.

What can I say? I'm all about practicality. :) Anyway, a second stainless M70 would compliment my M70 Extreme Weather nicely.

I have hunted grizzly with a model 70 stainless synthetic in 375. The bear was quartering toward me at 170 yards. I shot him in the seam kinda where the front shoulder meets the neck. The bear did not take one step, and I think it was dead when it hit the ground. Upon inspection, the bullet exited the opposite hind quarter. It was 8' squared, so that's at least 5' of bear it penetrated. I was using remington premium factory ammo, with the swift A-frame bullet.
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Sounds like everything I read was true, and that settles it; the .375 H&H is the caliber I want. Thanks for your input here.
 
I spent one week in Alaska. It was 36F in Juneau and raining the entire time. In early August.

If you move to Alaska, stainless steel would be a very good idea. A 375 would be an excellent choice for grizzly.

Go with the laminate/stainless.
 
For those of you worried about the laminate stock. That rifle is only one MacMillian away from being a PERFECT worldwide DG rifle. Heck don't kid yourselves it's also a fabulous non DG rifle. Maybe one of the best elk/moose/African plans game rifles on the planet.

If I were to buy one of these and set up for worldwide service I'd trim the barrel back to 22" or so maybe 23" I'd restock it in a MacMillian, drop a very low mounted 1.75X6 Leupold VariX-III on it and go kill stuff.
 
^ right on, H&H.
Back in the 90's when I got into reloading and DG stuff, I was flipping through my reloading manuals and spotted the .375H&H.
All my buddies were doing the ".40 minimum" or "30-'06 for everything" thing. The more research I did, the more I liked the .375 for an all around large game (bigger than whitetail) weapon.
I couldn't afford a fancy rifle, as I was a factory worker and student back then. So, I got a plain jane Browning Safari that was part of an estate sale and had actually been to Africa and killed a cape buff. The stock was all scratched and rutted. Finish was about 7 out of 10. Not a safe queen.
I played around with reloading and found that factory ammo back then was pretty good stuff and really accurate.
After the economic bubble burst, I had to sell it. It really still bothers me. I feel like it's a perfect round for my needs, as far as large game go. I'd have 4 or 5 different rifles in that caliber, including the somewhat pricey and elusive BAR chambered for it.
I did do some reloading for it and really enjoyed playing around with it, though. And there's a cool sort of mystique that goes along with it, like I was carrying a tradition or something. While that may sound emotive and nonsensical, I have an appreciation and respect for those who went before me and the tools they used. And it's my money and time, so who cares what people think.
Everything I shot with it dropped like a sack of potatoes, provided I did my part.
Never hunted Griz or blackies for my own reasons. But, large ungulates= no problem. Never felt like I was undergunned if i did run across a mechant bruin.
I lament never taking that rifle to Africa though. :banghead:
I will have another. :)
If not for the economy (again) I'd have one right now.
 
I want to ask how many of you actually have a rifle in .375 H&H Magnum?
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Yup. Own one and took it on a big trip, and "borrowed" another for a different trip.
From anyone who has firsthand experience hunting large, dangerous game, what say you?
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Yup.

.375 is a fine cartidge for large bear. Some will say "you don't need that." To me, that's not really the question. For SD handgun caliber choice, the standard line is "Carry the most powerful caliber you shoot well." I think that applies to dangerous game rifles, too. .375 H&H, unlike (say) a .458 Lott, is a real 300-yd caliber, and that combination of range and power is tough to beat. You may not plan on a 200-yard bear shot, but not every hunt goes as planned, and it is nice to have options.

I had a bad experience with a Model 70 (my only 70); came from the factory improperly barreled (too long a leade, so that bullets seated for best accuracy didn't feed from the mag correctly!).

I personally like CZs. Sadly, I've seen the prices for their 550s increase, but a "brown laminate" .375 is still listed at $1387. Savage used to list a .375 H&H, but now only a .375 Ruger.

For any dangerous game rifle, you're going to want to shoot the heck out of it before a trip to find the weak links. Some breakages are less likely to happen with .375 than the bigger boomers (like .458 Lott), and of course laminated stocks are great, but consider:

--Full glass bedding of the stock to reduce the risk of stock splitting
--Whether the trigger, bolt, and raceways are as smooth as you want, and whether the mag feeds without a hitch
--What length of barrel will make handling best for you; and if you shorten, with what sights will you replace the factory sights
--A recoil-absorbing butt-pad, adjusted to your correct LOP
--Check the bottom metal for opening of the floorplate under recoil
--Some folks believe the single set-trigger (of the CZ) as fragile (I disagree), so consider replacing that
--A muzzle brake (I'm against them)
--Whether you want a three-leaf rear sight, so that Murphy can flip the wrong leaf up at the wrong time
--A recoil reducer
--Having the bolt handle straightened
--Moving the front sling swivel to the barrel
--What scope you will mount, with what rings and bases. Attention to strength and eye relief; QD rings make sense on an express-sight rifle.

Lots of things to consider...before you're looking at an angry bear. Dangerous game hunts are like that.
 
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I am bit reluctant to even mention the butchers bill my .375H&H has racked up over the years as it will most likely be perceived as boasting. I'll just say that besides several cape buffalo it's also been responsible for a great number of African plains game, multiple elk, several deer, a ton of wild hogs, several dozen coyotes, caribou, bear, and a plethora of other small fuzzy targets of opportunity and a few metric tons of genuine North American and African target rocks.

Whether I am cruising the high alpine chasing elk or sneaking through the thick jesse bush of Africa or playing around shooting hogs and coyotes in Texas I feel totally at ease and 100% confident with a good old .375H&H in my hands.

Folks who don't know any better always say "Jeeezz that thing will blow a little ole deer to smithereens!" Incorrecto my friends. The .375H&H with a 270 or a 300 gr bullet does less meat damage than your .25-06 or even your .270. With a 270 gr bullet the ole .375 becomes a flat shooter as flat as a .30-06 shooting a 180 or even a 165 gr bullet depending on your load and it opens a whole new world of possibilities to the hunter. You no longer have to wait for that perfect broadside shot to make a quick ethical kill. You can start thinking like a profession hunter using a weapon that is capable of full length penetration on any animal on earth gives you a whole new world of shot opportunities.

I can think of no better rifle choice for hunting elk or moose where you are doing a combination of cruising dark timber and also have the possibility of having to stretch a shot out there to 400+ yards in the same day. I've killed a pile of elk that I've busted out of dark timber at close range with my carbine .375H&H taking shots that I wouldn't dream of taking with a high velocity small caliber round. I've also made my longest ever elk kill on a nice bull at 443 yards with the same rifle one shot through the last rib quartering away with an exit on point of the opposite shoulder and one seriously DRT bull elk.

You get that elk that's quartering hard away in full escape mode all it takes is placing your bullet so that it rakes forward into the boiler room you don't have to worry about the bullet getting there if you do your part.

I've shot cape buffalo with a .458 lott, a .470 NE and a .375H&H the fastest kill I've ever had on buff was with the .375H&H. Simply because it offers enough power and penetration and I am totally surgical with it. The other thing that the M-70 offers is a large capacity if you put a LW spring in your magazine you can hold 5 down one up. that is A LOT of fire power.


Sorry guys, I am a .375 freakoid. It's a seriously useful round and a very historical round. I get a thrill out of using it. I am not saying that you NEED a .375H&H for elk hunting only that if you want one it's a solid choice for anything you want to hunt including the light stuff and the heavy stuff. It a bit light for a dedicated elephant gun and it's ridiculously over gunned for coyotes but it will kill them both with ease and authority if need be.
 
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Darn!!! This thread has got me crying in my beer!!!! Many years ago I bought from a guy that had bought a new pre 64 model 70 Safari grade in 375 H&H. It was still in the box as he had forgot to pack it when he took off to Africa!!!! Never fired it and I got several boxes of ammo for it still with the Ambercrombi and Fitch price tags on them. Still have 2 boxes of them. I paid like $150.00 for it and sold it for $300.00. Can't type anymore as the tears are messing up my keyboard. FRJ
 
Buying a bolt action rifle in 375 H&H has always been my dream. I think you should fulfill your dreams. If I had one, I'd use it on whitetailed deer and I don't care what people might say. It would always be there for moose, elk, and bear hunts.
 
Well, I joined the 375 craze with a 375JDJ which is a 444 Marlin case necked down to 375 and have a T/C pistol and T/C G2 Contender rifle in that caliber. I am also taking a look at the 375 Ruger which is the equivalent of the famous 375 H&H magnum. Great caliber..
 
- You said you dream of a grizzly bear hunt.....FYI you do nto need a 375 to hunt grizzlyes....just to be precise...
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Actually, he said Kodiak Bears. While current scientific opinions consider Browns, Kodiaks and Grizzlies to all be the same species. The size difference between an inland grizzly who subsists mainly on roots, berries and chipmunks and a costal Kodiak that gorges himself on salmon can be as much as of 1000 pounds. Same speciels to the biologists, but a totally different animal to hunt.
 
Never hunted dangerous game. The only issue I see is the folding sight on the Alaskan model is asking for trouble. I have been rudely introduced to Mr. Murphy before and that folding sight is an invitation for him to make an appearance. The butt on the Alaskan looks smaller than the Safari and felt recoil would be more pronounced. Check out the Harvester Series from Hill Country Rifles. They build a semi-custom DGR off of the M70. It is cerakoted for corrosion resistance and worked for reliability and accuracy. Nothing wrong with "too much" gun. Big bore rounds can easily be downloaded for fun plinking.
 
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