3F Instead of 2F

[Nipty]

So new to muzzleloader/flintlock. Bought one last year for late season. Never made it out. The week leading up to muzzleloader season, I thought well better get to range and get it sighted in and learn how to shoot it. Not a centerfire rifle. That's for sure. Got some good hits. After some learning. First shoot at 25 yds did hit paper. Low to the left. Anyway. Sure by now everyone knows about Goex. Heartbreaking to all. Being new kid here, so it says use 2f for anything above 50 cal in the book that came with the Lyman DeerStalker 54 cal. rifle. I did get a pound when I bought the gun(new). And a small bottle of 4f. I got 2 pds from Midway a week or so after the announcement of the closing. Believe i even got a pd of 4f. However I bought a pd of the 3f Royal Blend Goex at local Agway. Will 3f be ok to use, like safely and shoot good? Thought I would ask, prior to trying. I do like shooting the flintlock! it really is a good time.

 

[hawg]

3F will work just fine.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Yes 3F will be fine.

I use 3F in my .58 with no complaints.

It’s pretty accurate at 50 yds with some upgraded Marbles sights.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

As previously eluded to, 3F will work, and be safe.
However, all other things being equal, you will get higher pressures with 3F so you may need to readjust your load for optimum performance.
A charge of 3F about 10% less than 2F will likely perform closer to your 2F load than an equal charge does.
A trip to the range should tell you.

 

[NY Yankee]

There was a time when gunpowder was not sorted by size, it was just "gunpowder". They used it in everything. The notion that you have to use a certain granulation in a certain caliber is about as backward as the common misconception that we need to "season" the bore. What you need to do is understand the properties of 1f, 2f, 3f, 4f granulation and load accordingly and find out what works well for you in your gun. You hear a lot of things when it comes to ML shooting. Do your research and do what you feel is right.

 

[hawg]

There was a time when gunpowder was not sorted by size, it was just "gunpowder". They used it in everything. The notion that you have to use a certain granulation in a certain caliber is about as backward as the common misconception that we need to "season" the bore. What you need to do is understand the properties of 1f, 2f, 3f, 4f granulation and load accordingly and find out what works well for you in your gun. You hear a lot of things when it comes to ML shooting. Do your research and do what you feel is right.

This is true. BP wasn't granulated for specific purposes until 1825.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

It's just a very general rule of thumb. I seem to get better accuracy in one of my .58's (1861) with 3fg. In my super-stubby-short-snorter .58 I use 3fg just because the barrel is so short, I think I'd just be wasting some of the load if I used 2fg or bigger.

In my flintlocks, (.62 and .75") I like 2fg or bigger as it "stacks" against the touch-hole instead of dribbling out. But 3fg does not always dribble out. ! And that just depends on what size the touch-hole is.

 

[Mike OTDP]

3F works fine. FWIW, a tip for flintlocks...insert your touch-hole pick in before loading. Load normally. Remove the pick. This will keep powder from dribbling out, and leaves a flash cavity in the charge.

 

[armoredman]

Does that rule also apply to the substitutes, like Pyrodex P being able to be used in rifles in a different load?

 

[Appalachiannative]

My crazy dad used to shoot 3f 100 grains in his .54 and nothing bad ever happened. This is before I was born so idk how well he did but from what I've heard over doing it like that is bad for accuracy. As far as safety goes the old man is still around. I shoot 50 or 60 sometimes of 3f in my .50 cal and it does great in the accuracy Dept. For 2f I do 60 or 70 grains

 

[hawg]

Does that rule also apply to the substitutes, like Pyrodex P being able to be used in rifles in a different load?

You can use Pyrodex P in a rifle just like you can 3F bp except flintlocks. Flinters won't ignite Pyrodex unless you use a bp booster.

My crazy dad used to shoot 3f 100 grains in his .54 and nothing bad ever happened. This is before I was born so idk how well he did but from what I've heard over doing it like that is bad for accuracy. As far as safety goes the old man is still around. I shoot 50 or 60 sometimes of 3f in my .50 cal and it does great in the accuracy Dept. For 2f I do 60 or 70 grains

100 grains isn't bad for a .54. I use 90 grains of 2F in my .54 but it's something of a light charge. I wouldn't hesitate to use 3F if it was all I had. I also used 90 grains when I used a .50.

 

[Appalachiannative]

You can use Pyrodex P in a rifle just like you can 3F bp except flintlocks. Flinters won't ignite Pyrodex unless you use a bp booster.



100 grains isn't bad for a .54. I use 90 grains of 2F in my .54 but it's something of a light charge. I wouldn't hesitate to use 3F if it was all I had. I also used 90 grains when I used a .50.

Really? Ill have to try it. Thanks

 

[Appalachiannative]

Oh and just to set the record straight I was talking about a percussion gun I don't have a flintlock but I'd like to get one. Figured since the topic was just about powder charges I figured they would be the same except for what hawg mentioned about pyrodex. As unreliable as I found it to be in my cap lock I can't imagine using it in a flintlock.

 

[hawg]

Oh and just to set the record straight I was talking about a percussion gun I don't have a flintlock but I'd like to get one. Figured since the topic was just about powder charges I figured they would be the same except for what hawg mentioned about pyrodex. As unreliable as I found it to be in my cap lock I can't imagine using it in a flintlock.

I never found Pyrodex to be unreliable. I've shot a lot of it. When I can't get Swiss it's all I'll use.

 

[Appalachiannative]

I never found Pyrodex to be unreliable. I've shot a lot of it. When I can't get Swiss it's all I'll use.

I've been told every black powder gun is different. Just seems like I bust fewer caps without ignition using the real deal black powder maybe my caps.

 

[hawg]

I've been told every black powder gun is different. Just seems like I bust fewer caps without ignition using the real deal black powder maybe my caps.

You should never ever bust a cap without ignition no matter what powder you're using. If you do then something else is wrong.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

All things considered, any flintlock is going to work better with real black powder. Yes, you can use it if you first pour around 20 grains of black in, (around/about) and then put the Pyrodex or whatever "substitute" over that, a duplex load, but...why? If you have black for priming and the "booster", you would not need to use a substitute for any reason. Or...am I missing something. ?

No, 100 grains in a .54 is not an over-load. On accuracy, there is a "sweet spot" where a specific charge will produce the best accuracy, which as you know is determined by increasing the load 5 grains at a time until accuracy starts to fall off, then back it down to the "sweet spot". But first you have to find the most accurate ball size and patch combination. Fun!

My .58's take 100 grains easy, but I've found that 80 grains seems to be the sweet spot in all three of them.

My .62" is up to 110 grains without accuracy falling off, but I think that's plenty of powder (2fg Swiss) and power for anything with four legs...so I've stopped there.

My Brown Bess "Ranger Carbine" is kind of backwards. Accuracy falls OFF with powder charges under 120 grains. So her preferred round-ball load is 130 grains of 1fg. !!!

 

[armoredman]

You can use Pyrodex P in a rifle just like you can 3F bp except flintlocks. Flinters won't ignite Pyrodex unless you use a bp booster.



100 grains isn't bad for a .54. I use 90 grains of 2F in my .54 but it's something of a light charge. I wouldn't hesitate to use 3F if it was all I had. I also used 90 grains when I used a .50.

Interesting - I might have to try that if the rifle I am eyeing comes through. I have a pound of Pyrodex P laying about doing nothing, but that would be last choice well after the OE.

 

[paul harm]

My 72 cal Trade Gun smoothbore shots best with 65grs of 2F, the 62 German Yager with a H&H barrel, 1 in 72 twist shots best with 125 grs of 2F, and my 54cal Bill Large 1 in 48 twist barreled Hawken best with 85 of 3F. As said, you'll have to play around with ball, patch, and powder charge for best results.

 

[hawg]

You will have to play around with powder charges and bullet weights/lengths. The Deerstalker has a 1:48 twist. It will probably work best with short stubby bullets. 1:48 is kind of an in between twist. It's not ideally suited for either round balls or conicals but should do well with either one.

 

[alsaqr]

Will 3f be ok to use, like safely and shoot good?

The difference between measured 100 grain loads of 2F and 3F: The 3F load is about 100 fps faster. There's no harm to the rifle.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

I use 60 grains of GOEX or OE 3F in my 54 cal Deerstalker.
She's a shooter!

 

[Nipty]

I used say 76 grains and I had hit bullseye 100 yards. Now I also used a little less and seems it shot a bit lower. 80 or a tad more also hit the center. 2f goex. I do want to try the 3f tho. Thanks everyone. Like I said, I am new to b.p. and flintlock. I really do enjoy shooting that rifle! I already want another. Haha

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

You will like that Old Eynsford 3f. You will likely see more velocity and a cleaner burn with it. That's been my main powder since it was introduced but with the closing of Goex I guess I'll have to go to Swiss in order to get comparable powder.

 

[Nipty]

Yes to my surprise..well I thought wth...with... did all this grease come from haha .the very first time I fire's my flintlock. Cleaned it all off. Then it would not shoot . Blah blah, took to gun shop. He laughed an explanation followed. Took it home. Bang. Good to go. Been loving it since. Cleaner you say? I doubt but I suppose next time I get up to where I found it I can ask if any remains. Can one have too much powder?