Ok, I know im opening up a a never ending debate, and without going thru all the archives of info in gun forums, can some body tell me with reasons ,what is it best to go with on SD 45ACP HP AMMO, im speaking in terms of the size of the load in grains, 160-230 , feel free to give me suggestions on a specific type of ammo, (fed,gold-dot,golden sabre,win etc) you get the picture. thx in advance.
45acp Hp SD Ammo,Best Grain Weight? etc And Why.
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CoRoMo
Member
I don't know if I have the answer you're looking for. Whenever anyone asks for the 'best' __________, there is usually a lot left out in regard to desired ballistics. Do you want the penetration that goes along with lighter/faster bullets? Or would you prefer the energy of the heavy bullets?
I load my XD with 230gr. Hydra-Shoks.
Reason: They are inexpensive, and they never jam in my gun. The latter is the most important reason to me.
Honestly, I'd carry almost any weight of JHP as long as it cycled flawlessly through my gun.
I load my XD with 230gr. Hydra-Shoks.
Reason: They are inexpensive, and they never jam in my gun. The latter is the most important reason to me.
Honestly, I'd carry almost any weight of JHP as long as it cycled flawlessly through my gun.
wnycollector
Member
I currently has doubletap 230gr gold dotd in my SIG P220. I also have stocked up on some fiocchi 230gr JHP's since I'm down to my last box of DT's. The fiocchi is very accurate and very low recoil.
wally
Member
I'm a firm believer in the heaviest bullets for the caliber. The three most important things in a shots effectiveness is bullet Placement, Placement, and Penetration.
Your light weight, higher velocity JHP are impressive on water jugs, fruit, and such but if they don't have adequate penetration, they won't get the job done.
This is incorrect.
All things being equal (which they never all in the real world) penetration in a given material is proportional the product of sectional density times velocity. When your light weight JHP opens up, sectional density goes south fast, if they open up more than the heavier bullet things become even less favorable. Almost never does the lighter bullet gain enough velocity to make up for the reduced sectional density, especially after expansion.
But bullet placement is overall far more important than which particular bullet you put there, so if your uber SD load is too expensive to practice with, IMHO you are handicapping yourself far more than some magic bullet can make up for.
--wally.
Your light weight, higher velocity JHP are impressive on water jugs, fruit, and such but if they don't have adequate penetration, they won't get the job done.
This is incorrect.
All things being equal (which they never all in the real world) penetration in a given material is proportional the product of sectional density times velocity. When your light weight JHP opens up, sectional density goes south fast, if they open up more than the heavier bullet things become even less favorable. Almost never does the lighter bullet gain enough velocity to make up for the reduced sectional density, especially after expansion.
But bullet placement is overall far more important than which particular bullet you put there, so if your uber SD load is too expensive to practice with, IMHO you are handicapping yourself far more than some magic bullet can make up for.
--wally.
ljnowell
Member
I like the 200gr Gold Dot. However, if you are going to go below that weight, you may as well be using a smaller caliber gun too, while you are at it.
As long as a 230 has reliable expansion its probably the best round.
I wouldnt be afraid to use 230 FMJ for the very reason that it will penetrate as far as needed.
As long as a 230 has reliable expansion its probably the best round.
I wouldnt be afraid to use 230 FMJ for the very reason that it will penetrate as far as needed.
outerlimit
Member
230gr. +p is best as it has the most momentum, though I don't feel too badly about using high powered 200gr. loads, they're just not my preference. The penetration of the lighter weight, less than 200gr. loads is often lacking. I believe the lighter weight 165-185gr. loads also contribute to the reliability problems of the shorter barreled 1911's they are often used in as they have less barrel dwell time and less back pressure to cycle the gun.
That said, I'm not always a fan of the heaviest round in the caliber.
That said, I'm not always a fan of the heaviest round in the caliber.
trailblazer
Member
i have read several posts about the effectiveness on certain ammo.
i.e., heavier grain FMJ, as opposed to lighter grain JHP in the same caliber.
so my question is, has anyone ever loaded more than one type of ammo in the same mag to take advantage of the differing characteristics of each ammo choice?
i.e., heavier grain FMJ, as opposed to lighter grain JHP in the same caliber.
so my question is, has anyone ever loaded more than one type of ammo in the same mag to take advantage of the differing characteristics of each ammo choice?
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Ive found i like this guys perspective on ammo: http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4121
I too lean towards the heaviest grain a caliber can hold and it has a +p rating.I dont feel a .45 has over penetration issues,especially with a hollowpoint.
ATM i have Cor-Bon 230 +p jhp's in my 1911,but i havent had time to order any from DoubleTap since i just bought the gun.
My 10mm is fed DT also in the 180gr Bonded GoldDot's.
i have the 200gr DT's also,in controlled expansion.They wouldnt be the best for HD as id almost guarentee they will exit anything they hit.
I really feel a .45 needs as much power it can get in the powder charge,unless its a fmj load.
This is what ill be ordering: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=95
That is the Bonded defense load that will expand as much as possible,but for more penetration they have a controlled expansion 230 jhp also.But i would only use that if there was a chance id have to fire threw a car door first.
I too lean towards the heaviest grain a caliber can hold and it has a +p rating.I dont feel a .45 has over penetration issues,especially with a hollowpoint.
ATM i have Cor-Bon 230 +p jhp's in my 1911,but i havent had time to order any from DoubleTap since i just bought the gun.
My 10mm is fed DT also in the 180gr Bonded GoldDot's.
i have the 200gr DT's also,in controlled expansion.They wouldnt be the best for HD as id almost guarentee they will exit anything they hit.
I really feel a .45 needs as much power it can get in the powder charge,unless its a fmj load.
This is what ill be ordering: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=95
That is the Bonded defense load that will expand as much as possible,but for more penetration they have a controlled expansion 230 jhp also.But i would only use that if there was a chance id have to fire threw a car door first.
hillbillydelux
Member
I like the 230gn XTP bullet or the 230gn gold dot. Both seem to perform very well and are the most accurate hollow points in my 45. XTP is cheaper so I tend to practice much more with them.
mljdeckard
Member
I use the cartridge in the barrel length and pressure it was designed for. 230 gr HSTs in a full-size 1911.
If I were to use a compact .45 I would consider something smaller. I am not at all sold on +P ammo. The cartridge loaded as designed works just fine.
If I were to use a compact .45 I would consider something smaller. I am not at all sold on +P ammo. The cartridge loaded as designed works just fine.
CoRoMo
Member
...what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity.
wally's right.
wally's right.
HoosierQ
Member
230 all the way in a .45 ACP.
outerlimit
Member
I agree. In fact, I haven't looked lately, but I believe all of the fast Double Tap .45acp loads are standard pressure. I guess they're able to do it somehow with a special powder mix.
The extra recoil of +P makes follow up shots a little more difficult, when standard pressure is good enough. That said I still prefer a standard bullet weight, but faster than standard specs in this caliber.
Redlg155
Member
I've always gone with the maxim of "the shorter the barrel, the lighter the bullet".
With my full size Kimber 1911 I use 230 Grain Golden Sabers. I always want my velocity to at least be in the neighborhood of 850 to 900 minimum. With a shorter barrel .45 I would definitely use lighter bullets to achieve this velocity.
Is this based on evidence, both real life and controlled experiments? No. It is based purely on personal preference. Confidence in your chosen weapon and ammo combination is 99 percent of the task.
With my full size Kimber 1911 I use 230 Grain Golden Sabers. I always want my velocity to at least be in the neighborhood of 850 to 900 minimum. With a shorter barrel .45 I would definitely use lighter bullets to achieve this velocity.
Is this based on evidence, both real life and controlled experiments? No. It is based purely on personal preference. Confidence in your chosen weapon and ammo combination is 99 percent of the task.
ScareyH22A
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Since I shoot a USP fullsize, the hotter load +P doesn't bother me. So I'm very content with 12+1 rounds of Federal HST 230gr +P.
Snowdog
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I've chosen the 230gr Winchester Ranger for my 1911s as it has a rounded ogive and is of good quality. I chose the 230gr as the 1911 was designed to fire a projectile of this weight and it give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
Seriously though, both my Kimber and RIA print great groups with the Ranger, so I have no reason not to use 'em. Besides, I bought a few hundred rounds before this shortage, so it's practically the only factory JHP I have on hand.
Seriously though, both my Kimber and RIA print great groups with the Ranger, so I have no reason not to use 'em. Besides, I bought a few hundred rounds before this shortage, so it's practically the only factory JHP I have on hand.
there is no reason not to shoot the heaviest grain in any caliber for SD. mass x velocity the heavier bullet will always win because the lighter one gains a marginally higher FPS but its close to the terminal velocity anyway so it doesn't really mean the gain is a better trade off.
I use 230g golden sabers for a reason, because even if they don't have 90+% of weight reduction, its still more bullet going in than many other calibers. Even the smaller calibers have much more velocity but half the weight or less.
1225 fps from a 9mm at 115 grains. that is exactly half of 230. the 230g 45 has a velocity of 880 fps
1225 x 115= 140875 /7000=20.125 pounds of force
880 x 230= 202400 /7000=28.91 pounds of force
http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/handgunlist.aspx?bn=4&type=7
from winchester.
Even if you get into +p rounds, the velocity upgrade isn't that much. its not even worth it imo. why shoot a lighter more recoiling round because it goes a little faster? how did the 9mm get a reputation of going through people? because its fast. I like mine slow and heavy.
I use 230g golden sabers for a reason, because even if they don't have 90+% of weight reduction, its still more bullet going in than many other calibers. Even the smaller calibers have much more velocity but half the weight or less.
1225 fps from a 9mm at 115 grains. that is exactly half of 230. the 230g 45 has a velocity of 880 fps
1225 x 115= 140875 /7000=20.125 pounds of force
880 x 230= 202400 /7000=28.91 pounds of force
http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/handgunlist.aspx?bn=4&type=7
from winchester.
Even if you get into +p rounds, the velocity upgrade isn't that much. its not even worth it imo. why shoot a lighter more recoiling round because it goes a little faster? how did the 9mm get a reputation of going through people? because its fast. I like mine slow and heavy.
DAVIDSDIVAD
member
I use the 185 grain DPX round since it is simply the most accurate out of my gun.
The amount of hurr in this thread is directly proportional to the amount of durr.
The amount of hurr in this thread is directly proportional to the amount of durr.
PAPACHUCK
Member
230gr JHP
'nuff said.
'nuff said.
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