6.5 Creedmor more popular than .300 Blackout?

[Dr T]

Why has the 6.5 CM gotten popular so quickly while the 260 Rem went nowhere fast? Who knows. I suspect it may have something to do with Hornady marketing coupled with its success in competition. Both are great cartridges, but I just like it. A non-scientific reason is that the case is based on the 250 Savage and I have always liked the 250 Savage--but about the only way to get a new one is in a custom gun now. BTW, I also like the 221 Fireball so by the same reasoning I SHOULD like the 300 BLK--but it just doesn't fill a niche that I am particularly interested in.

 

[Newtosavage]

ppl need to read what 1stmarine is writing.

The 7.62x39 is great if you're plinking with cheap Russian ammo. When you move beyond that, it's not quite as rosy. It simply doesn't do everything the .300AAC does and most of that is due to the odd bullet diameter.

My 7.62x39 shoots steel case $5/box ammo into 1.5 MOA groups all day long, and turns around and sends 160-grain handloads out of the tube at 2250 fps. with sub-MOA accuracy.

Show me a .300 that can do that.

 

[1stmarine]

ppl need to read what 1stmarine is writing.



My 7.62x39 shoots steel case $5/box ammo into 1.5 MOA groups all day long, and turns around and sends 160-grain handloads out of the tube at 2250 fps. with sub-MOA accuracy.

Show me a .300 that can do that.

You can also launch 110gr ttsx to 2,600fps with reloads. IMO Lapua is the best brass for nice reloads.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

ppl need to read what 1stmarine is writing.



My 7.62x39 shoots steel case $5/box ammo into 1.5 MOA groups all day long, and turns around and sends 160-grain handloads out of the tube at 2250 fps. with sub-MOA accuracy.

Show me a .300 that can do that.

The 5.56 AR can be converted to run .300 Blackout with just a different barrel using the same mags. Show me the 7.62x39 that can run through a Lancer L5 mag in an AR.

I think a lot of folks are seriously missing the point. The .300 has a specific niche that it fills extremely well. Is it poised to break out to the point where every Wal-Mart and Ace Hardware carries it? No, of course not. Same as 6.5 CM, they're both niche rounds that occupy very different niches. And no one is bashing the 7.62x39 at all but be honest- it mostly exists because there are tens of millions of AKs billions of rounds of cheap steel ammo floating around. Who in their right mind would chamber a purpose-built bolt gun in 7.62x39? I guess maybe someone sitting on a thousand pounds of surplus ammo but there's nothing it does that isn't done better by something else, save run through a Comm Bloc AK.

Bear in mind that ammo companies still crank out rounds far more obscure and unpopular than the .300 Blackout. Since cases can be fireformed from 5.56 casings there's no reason to expect that it will ever go away so long as civilians are still permitted to own firearms.

 

[<*(((><]

I had assembled a 8.2" Noveske 300BO and while it was fun, when I got down to researching it compared to the 7.62x39, I sold it and assembled a 7.62x39. No comparison in my book, more case capacity and one can still reload subs if they want to. The savings in money on ammo over a short amount of time pays for the BCG and specialized mags. Let's see $.22/round compared to $.45-50/round. And one can get 7.62x39 brass ammo for $.50-.60/round. But if one enjoys the 300BO and it fills their roles for it, mm ore power to them, it's great to be in America where we all have choices.

But back to the OP, I would go for the 6.5CM before a 300BO these days. I think the 6.5CM checks a lot more boxes than the 300BO. But all of this is subjective to the needs of the individual.

 

[1stmarine]

The 5.56 AR can be converted to run .300 Blackout with just a different barrel using the same mags.

If this is the goal then why not use the 6x45L, 6mm TCU, 25x45 or even the 270x40? They all use the same bolts and magazines, shoot flatter and hit harder. The 6x45 is so easy to reload
that it is even easier than the 223 itself. Very forgiving and extremely accurate. On average a 25%-30% boost w/o investing much and lots of speed on the target.
Even the 223 itself with premium ammunition it becomes a flatter shooting harder hitting round specially at a distance. 80gr amax from double tap or Black hills 77gr TMK
are good examples. They offer more power, speed and flatter trajectories than the whisper/blackout from popular 223 uppers and rifles.
hornady 75gr hpbt superformance is a coyote smasher. For hogs TTSX and the 75gr swift is another amazing round when stout rounds are needed.
If one reloads then they are cost effective and one can get better ballistics other than subsonic obviously.

 

[midland man]

so I wonder if the 6.5x55 Swedish is better than the 6.5 creed??

 

[Newtosavage]

You can also launch 110gr ttsx to 2,600fps with reloads. IMO Lapua is the best brass for nice reloads.

I bought 100 Lapua 7.62x39 cases a while back. First time I've been complimented on my choice of brass was at the range on Saturday. LOL

Who in their right mind would chamber a purpose-built bolt gun in 7.62x39?

Savage, Ruger and CZ to name three. And I love my Savage.

When you really start looking hard at a 7.62x39 in a bolt action, you will wonder why it's not more popular. It is literally the ideal hunting rifle for smaller framed shooters who will rarely - if ever - take a shot past 150 yards.

 

[midland man]

I bought 100 Lapua 7.62x39 cases a while back. First time I've been complimented on my choice of brass was at the range on Saturday. LOL



Savage, Ruger and CZ to name three. And I love my Savage.

When you really start looking hard at a 7.62x39 in a bolt action, you will wonder why it's not more popular. It is literally the ideal hunting rifle for smaller framed shooters who will rarely - if ever - take a shot past 150 yards.

wouldn't the 30-30 be better than the 7.62x39??

 

[LoonWulf]

wouldn't the 30-30 be better than the 7.62x39??

Yep, but your limited to levers or singles in NEW rifles.
Not that its much of an issue unless your really want a bolt or semi.
Personally lever .30-30s dont hold alot of interest for me, but similar balistics in a compact bolt do. Same as 2250 from a 125 dosent hold my interest but scratching 2500 does.
Its all personal preference when were talking 150 and in.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

If this is the goal then why not use the 6x45L, 6mm TCU, 25x45 or even the 270x40? They all use the same bolts and magazines, shoot flatter and hit harder. The 6x45 is so easy to reload
that it is even easier than the 223 itself. Very forgiving and extremely accurate. On average a 25%-30% boost w/o investing much and lots of speed on the target.
Even the 223 itself with premium ammunition it becomes a flatter shooting harder hitting round specially at a distance. 80gr amax from double tap or Black hills 77gr TMK
are good examples. They offer more power, speed and flatter trajectories than the whisper/blackout from popular 223 uppers and rifles.
hornady 75gr hpbt superformance is a coyote smasher. For hogs TTSX and the 75gr swift is another amazing round when stout rounds are needed.
If one reloads then they are cost effective and one can get better ballistics other than subsonic obviously.

Sure, you could set up one of those. I'll confess I have never heard of even one of those rounds nor have I ever seen them in any store. Going by the names I will surmise that they're all 5.56 brass necked up for larger bullets? I suppose you're looking for problems instead of solutions. Who cares how easy it is to reload for a given round if you don't reload? I can walk into Scheel's tomorrow and walk out with .300 Blackout; that isn't true of any of those other rounds. You'll get no argument from me about the 5.56- it's a great round. But it has no loadings at all that are subsonic. I feel like everyone has lost sight of the entire point of the .300 Blackout. It's not out there to replace the .223 or be the "best" all-around cartridge. It was designed to perform a limited role very well.

As for the 7.62x39 it's also a good round. I've owned a few guns chambered in that caliber over the years although I don't have one currently. But as midland man says, a thirty-thirty would be superior in a bolt gun. Wouldn't almost any .30 cal rifle? In a bolt gun it's hard to imagine why you'll get a 7.62x39 over a 7.62 NATO, especially if you reload, but even if you don't. Vastly superior ballistics, still pretty economical.

Personally I think this is a fascinating topic for discussion! It kind of explains why there are so many different cartridges in the world- even though many are near duplicates each seems to have dedicated adherents.

 

[eastbank]

my ruger in 762x39 shoots as good as my rem 7 aac in 300bk and does offer more speed and energy. and if rem made a model 7 aac 6.5x45-6x45 i would buy one. i have a heavy barreled rem 40XB in 6x47 and think a light rifle like the aac rem model 7 in thoses calibers would be a dandy rifle. and any of those three calibers would offer more for me in field use( i do reload) and would be as cheap to reload as the 300 bk. i don,t want to get into the rut of trying to make the 300 bk into a catch all cartige, it realy shines in a short light weight auto surrpressed with heavy sub-sonic bullets. eastbank

 

[horsey300]

so I wonder if the 6.5x55 Swedish is better than the 6.5 creed??

That really comes down to preference in action (long or short) on paper, neither beats the other enough to matter, to beat the .260 rem/Swede/creed/ you need the 6.5-06....6.5-284(commercial production now via Norma in custom or savage guns) or 6.5 rem Mag(obsolete) .264 win Mag, or 26 nosler. If I were ever to be tempted by the blk, a certain perfect scenario must happen. 1.I must be hog hunting in confined areas. 2. It must have a short barrel and suppressor. 3. I must suddenly decide that I have polar reversed on personal views of an ar platform (ruger minis and benelli r1s trip my trigger MUCH easier than an ar for semiautomatic). Finally, 4. Literally NO other chambering can be available to me at that time (Grendel, beo, socom, bushmaster, .308, .260, 6.5lapua and creed, .243 win, .300 Mag.etc etc etc). Is tc jumping on a bandwagon here? Yup, but they picked one that will carry more sales forward. Bolt blk would be something I would only buy if I intended on customizing/wildcatting the cartridge to begin with, it would probably never see a TRUE .300 blk case in its life. The bolt .223, Grendel, and x39 offerings already available will make for tough competition for ANY bolt .300blk

 

[Newtosavage]

wouldn't the 30-30 be better than the 7.62x39??

I love my pre-64 Winchester. Had that gun since I was 14 and have killed a ton of critters with it. Having said that, the x39 has significantly less recoil, produces almost identical ballistics, and enjoys $5/box plinking ammo that will shoot tighter groups than my 30-30.

A few Sundays ago, I dropped a 225# boar literally in his tracks with a cheap steel case hollow point to the brain at 110 yards with my x39. I'd have to reload my 30-30 to get ammo anywhere near that cheap (if I even could) and I doubt it would be that accurate.

People who only know the x39 in cheap AK's and SKS rifles really have no idea what that round is capable of IMO.

 

[Newtosavage]

When I get time, I gotta get on my 7x39 AI project... Personally I think it would be the ideal low-recoil deer/hog gun.

 

[CraigC]

It doesn't always have to be either/or. I've always wondered why so many have to have a single answer to every question. Pick any possible purpose for a rifle and there are going to be lots of different potential tools for the job. All will have their advantages and disadvantages.

I have always liked the 250 Savage--but about the only way to get a new one is in a custom gun now.

Ruger recently did some runs of 77's in .250Savage. Here's one from 2012.

 

[Dr T]

Nice RSI. And I missed that 2012 run. And the run before that. I nearly got one during the run in the early 90's (M77 Lightweight), but for some reason I can't remember I got the 223...

Come to think of it, the only way I can conceive of a 300 BLK configuration that would appeal to me would be on a CZ 527 action... But it would be way down on MY list (behind a 7.62x39 on the same action, which in turn is behind a 221 Fireball on that action, for example). I will also point out that this is purely a matter of personal taste and says nothing about the ballistic merits.

 

[Ibmikey]

I am quite anxious for the snow to recede for awhile and make my pilgrimage to texas for a visit and hog hunting. The 300 BO as i have indicated before is my choice to put the critters down in the dirt, this year i have a Ruger American with a Tru glo luminated 3x9 that i hope to initiate into the fun of Hog hunting. I shoot supersonic rounds of 125 gr while after hogs, it seems to put them down just fine.
The AAC Handi Rifle is about as compact as they come, even with my standard length camo replacement stock, and a barrel of fun to shoot at cans and steel. At this point in my life the minimal recoil of the .223 and 300 Blackout and limited range wooded areas where 100 yds is a long shot suggests both calibers are perfect for me.

 

[hdwhit]

The .300 Blackout has established itself and already cemented it's popularity.

Since I will not return to read the inevitable reaction, let the flaming begin.

The .300 Blackout was the AR Community's answer to the .30 Carbine. And it likewise suffers from the limitations inherent in all .30 and .32 caliber small capacity cases.

 

[LoonWulf]

Since I will not return to read the inevitable reaction, let the flaming begin.

The .300 Blackout was the AR Community's answer to the .30 Carbine. And it likewise suffers from the limitations inherent in all .30 and .32 caliber small capacity cases.

Agreed, it pretty well is everything the .30 carb wanted to be and more....but not in nearly as cute a rifle

 

[Tirod]

We're missing an important element of the OP's request - he concentrated on what rifle and two distinctly different cartridges without telling us what he intended to DO with it.

The selection process, as typical as it may be, is backwards. It's how you wind up with a gun you like, in caliber you don't, because it doesn't meet expectation. To do it right, you have to be honest - is this just another cute gun in the rack, or is it a tool to project bullets? If the first, whatever. Buy it in either cartridge as it won't make much difference. If the latter, then it's time to put down "on paper" exactly what the shooter intends out of it.

That means acknowledging what ranges - the distance it will likely be shot out to - and what kind of target. The choice is paper, or live. If the range and target isn't specified, all the internet arguing in the world means nothing.

OP: What are you going to shoot at, and how far away? Describe it. Otherwise we've wasted three pages with empty meaningless drivel. We know that cartridges are different and we can post ballistic charts of their effective range and drop all day long - which will have no bearing until we specify concrete terms of where and what we are shooting.

The range and target determine the bullet, what powder charge is behind it, and how much bullet drop you are willing to put up with. .300BO vs 6.5 Creedmore is really pushing the limit of what is covered with those effective ranges. Time to step back and reconsider what is needed to be done. After a short look it should be more than obvious which fits better.

 

[LoonWulf]

Im pretty sure the OP is already a blackout fan, and was just surprised (and perhaps miffed) the Compass wasnt offered in it. We all took it as an opertunity to start a cartridge discussion....

 

[mavracer]

People who only know the x39 in cheap AK's and SKS rifles really have no idea what that round is capable of IMO.

Most of the problem is not the guns even, most people only know cheap steel cased ammo in the X39.
I still love my BO though and have no use for a X39, if I want more range and power than my BO provides I have a 308.

 

[CraigC]

Since I will not return to read the inevitable reaction, let the flaming begin.

The .300 Blackout was the AR Community's answer to the .30 Carbine. And it likewise suffers from the limitations inherent in all .30 and .32 caliber small capacity cases.

Except that it propels a 110gr spitzer about 400fps faster than the Carbine propels a roundnose.

 

[Newtosavage]

Most of the problem is not the guns even, most people only know cheap steel cased ammo in the X39.
I still love my BO though and have no use for a X39, if I want more range and power than my BO provides I have a 308.

A perfectly reasonable approach.

I don't own a single "black gun" and prefer bolt actions for hunting, so the x39 made more sense to me. I don't feel the 300 is an adequate deer rifle, but with my handloads, the x39 is more than capable. I have no interest in subsonic rounds, otherwise I would have chosen the 300.