6.5 Creedmor more popular than .300 Blackout?

[CoalTrain49]

So you think competitors are using the 6.5 due to marketing? You think all those guys are using a cartridge they 'think' is better but really isn't? Wrong. They're using the 6.5 (Creedmoor and Lapua) because they shoot flatter and drift significantly less than the .308. They even have a slight advantage over the .300 magnums. With the huge advantage of not burning through barrels as fast or beating the hell out of the shooter. Not marketing, fact.

No, competitors are using 6.5 mm and 6 mm because they are the best long range (500 yds >) cartridges. They are using custom rifles and custom ammo for competition. They aren't buying their rifles at Cabelas and they aren't using Hornady ammo, are they? The buying public reads that so-in-so won a 1000 yd match with a 6.5 Creedmoor so he thinks that has to be the cartridge although that individual will probably never shoot at anything over 500 yds. (not that many BR shooters) and the rifle he purchased would never demonstrate that 1000 yd 1 MOA accuracy especially with factory ammo.

So again, it's a BR cartridge and has no real advantage for anyone who isn't a BR competitor or someone who doesn't routinely shoot beyond 500 yds. You might as well just shoot a .308 and save about 0.50/rd to buy more ammo. That is also about the price difference if you reload because .308 OF brass can be found for 0.10 all day long. I pick it up at the range where I shoot for zero. Never seen a creedmoor case at my range. Another thing to consider if you shoot a lot is barrel life. 2-3X the barrel life with .308.

Hornady has some pretty good marketing execs, that's for sure.

 

[rayatphonix]

Hornady also have some good engineers...

The Creedmoor isn't a fad and will be around for many years.

 

[eastbank]

i like and shoot and hunt the 6mm-6.5-.308 calibers along with many others, but i think the hype is put out to sell the new cartiges to the regular hunter-shooter. and we all can,t be expert long range hunters-shooters due to health issues, money issues or the time to pratice. most experts are not born,but made by putting in a great deal of effort to get to that level. i have a good friend who bought a savage 338 Lupula and night force scope and he bragges alot about his skills, but i have seen him shoot and he,s not realy to good. just be cause you own and drive a corvet doesn,t mean your a race car driver. eastbank.

 

[CoalTrain49]

i like and shoot and hunt the 6mm-6.5-.308 calibers along with many others, but i think the hype is put out to sell the new cartiges to the regular hunter-shooter. and we all can,t be expert long range hunters-shooters due to health issues, money issues or the time to pratice. most experts are not born,but made by putting in a great deal of effort to get to that level. i have a good friend who bought a savage 338 Lupula and night force scope and he bragges alot about his skills, but i have seen him shoot and he,s not realy to good. just be cause you own and drive a corvet doesn,t mean your a race car driver. eastbank.

Good analogy.

 

[LoonWulf]

But you are more likely to run a faster quarter than the guy with the prius

 

[eastbank]

thats sure true, but when you run out of gas the prius will get two fat girls home before dark. eastbank.

 

[LoonWulf]

Actually yeah...they are spacious....,.....

 

[ridgerunner1965]

to me and its just my opinion, the 6.5 creed is fine, its a good cartridge, but is it that much better than the 260 rem or even the 6.5x55?i mean really?

why do we keep trying to reinvent the wheel?

the 300 bo is a joke. 10 years from now no one will know what it is. my savage 30 30 bolt with 125 grn bullets makes a fool out of it.

why do we even keep having these arguments?

 

[CoalTrain49]

to me and its just my opinion, the 6.5 creed is fine, its a good cartridge, but is it that much better than the 260 rem or even the 6.5x55?i mean really?

why do we keep trying to reinvent the wheel?

the 300 bo is a joke. 10 years from now no one will know what it is. my savage 30 30 bolt with 125 grn bullets makes a fool out of it.

why do we even keep having these arguments?

Actually, I don't think the shooting public does. I think the firearms and ammo mfg's do so they will have something to sell. The powder companies do the same thing even tho they've already created a powder for every conceivable cartridge in existence numerous times. They have so many listed that only about half of them are available for purchase yet we get new ones every year. Are they any better? Nope, just new.

I swear the gun industry is starting to look like a 5th Ave fashion show.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

.22 LR is more popular than .300 Black Out. It is a cartridge in search of a purpose so even though you are a big fan it is still a yawn for most shooters. I have a .30 carbine so I have no need for a wanna be clone. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[CraigC]

to me and its just my opinion, the 6.5 creed is fine, its a good cartridge, but is it that much better than the 260 rem or even the 6.5x55?i mean really?

why do we keep trying to reinvent the wheel?

the 300 bo is a joke. 10 years from now no one will know what it is. my savage 30 30 bolt with 125 grn bullets makes a fool out of it.

why do we even keep having these arguments?

The 6.5Creedmoor runs through an AR10 action, the 6.5x55 does not. The 6.5CM is more accurate and more efficient than the .260, which is all but dead.

Yeah, how well does that .30-30 run through an AR? How many boltguns chambered in it, besides the outdated 340? Got the right twist for 220gr bullets?

The .300 was never meant to replace the .30-30 or the .30Carbine and to make that argument is simply absurd.

 

[CraigC]

CoalTrain, I am still waiting for you to name previously existing cartridges that do everything the 6.5 and .300 do.

No, competitors are using 6.5 mm and 6 mm because they are the best long range (500 yds >) cartridges. They are using custom rifles and custom ammo for competition.

Exactly and that is the purpose for which the cartridge was intended. Was that so hard?

The buying public reads that so-in-so won a 1000 yd match with a 6.5 Creedmoor so he thinks that has to be the cartridge although that individual will probably never shoot at anything over 500 yds. (not that many BR shooters) and the rifle he purchased would never demonstrate that 1000 yd 1 MOA accuracy especially with factory ammo.

So what? So if people buy a viable long range cartridge but never use it for that purpose, that's the cartridge's fault? How is that an indictment against he cartridge? Or a result of marketing? Surely you can point to this marketing you speak of.

So again, it's a BR cartridge and has no real advantage for anyone who isn't a BR competitor or someone who doesn't routinely shoot beyond 500 yds. You might as well just shoot a .308 and save about 0.50/rd to buy more ammo. That is also about the price difference if you reload because .308 OF brass can be found for 0.10 all day long. I pick it up at the range where I shoot for zero. Never seen a creedmoor case at my range. Another thing to consider if you shoot a lot is barrel life. 2-3X the barrel life with .308.

Hornady has some pretty good marketing execs, that's for sure.

Sure, you can shoot a .308. Or a .260, or a 6.5x55, or a 7mm08, or a 7x57, or any of the other myriad similar cartridges that might fill the same ROLE.

Is it always about what you can shoot the cheapest? I buy new brass. Both the ranges I use require members to pick up their own brass and I would never use range pickup brass anyway. So I see little difference, considering that I WILL be shooting up to 1200yds with a cartridge that shoots significantly flatter with less wind drift than the .308.

Let's be honest. YOU have no use for the 6.5 and are unable to accept that others might have wants & needs different from your own. So you choose to be condescending and cynical instead. Seems like some shooters reach the point where they stop enjoying the process of buying and shooting guns and start getting their kicks out of being a cynical critic.

 

[eastbank]

the firearm makers hope enough people will read how great the 6.5 cm is doing at long range target shooting and hope they fall for the macho long range sales pitch, now i can see thats where the 6.5 cm shines . 95 percent of the hunters will read about it and think thats sure a super cartridge and go on shooting their regular hunting rifles. i,m not knocking the 6.5 cm, just stating the facts as i hear them at several gun clubs i belong too. to kill all the game in north america(except maybe big bears) along with most in the world out to 500 yards, and a good 140gr bullet shot out of a .260 at 2700 fps will do that and 99.9 percent of those animals will be shot at less than 500 yards. start asking every hunter you meet or know how far their longest shot was at game and you will come up with a idea how many realy need a 1200 yard rifle. and 6.5 cm rifles built to be hunters are not the same ones build to shoot 1200 yards targets, oh you could use your hunter 6.5 CM at the long range matches, but you aren,t going to win much. eastbank.

 

[rayatphonix]

Good post Eastbank.

One problem firearms manufacturers face is modern guns last a long time. New chamberings sell new rifles and that keeps manufacturers in business. If we only had 4 or 5 chambers to choose from I expect there'd be a lot less companies building firearms. Can you imagine if our only choices were between Remington, Winchester, and Browning? New products benefit the manufacturers and allow shooters to have lots of choices. That works out well for everyone.

 

[mavracer]

the 300 bo is a joke. 10 years from now no one will know what it is. my savage 30 30 bolt with 125 grn bullets makes a fool out of it.

Care to put some money on that first part, and your justification is real weak my bolt 308 with 125s will smoke your 30-30 and my win mag will smoke that.

I have a .30 carbine so I have no need for a wanna be clone.

I have a 30 carbine too and it wishes it could do what the blackout can, 300 is much easier to load for has much better downrange ballistics and is darn near as efficient with powder.

a idea how many really need a 1200 yard rifle.

People just can't get out of their own heads. Not everybody is a hunter some folks do actually shoot competition.

 

[CraigC]

The fact that people buy 6.5's and never use them as intended is entirely irrelevant. Doesn't change the fact that it's a better long range cartridge, matching the .300WinMag's trajectory with a fraction of the recoil. Seems to me that 'some' folks are more concerned with having the appearance of being too smart to be "duped by marketing" to actually take the time and judge something based on merit.

Seems to me that 'some' folks are also way too concerned with how others spend their money.

The 6.5 also makes a dandy short action medium game cartridge. Like so many others. Who cares if brass costs more? Hard to find and expensive brass doesn't keep me from enjoying my .250Savage and it's a very old cartridge, the very first to break the 3000fps barrier.

 

[CoalTrain49]

CoalTrain, I am still waiting for you to name previously existing cartridges that do everything the 6.5 and .300 do.

The Creedmoor is a good midrange cartridge but isn't real popular with F class shooters presently.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ming-cartridge-types-for-f-class-competition/

To summarize,
Mid-range F Open Dasher, 6.5x47 Laupa
Long Range F Open 284 Win
Long range Only 300 WSM

In F-TR competition, the choice is clear — a .308 Win throated for Berger 185gr BTLRs and 200gr Hybrids will win in mid-range AND long-range comps. Many championships have been won, and many records set with those two bullets in the .308 Win.

The Creedmoor was not mentioned one time in this 2016 article. It's not the real barn burner that you suggest with those shooting competitively. It can't do anything that several existing cartridges can't for this application.

As far as an AR cartridge I suppose it works but with a 16-18" barrel and a lousy trigger what's the point? All of that midrange accuracy is lost so why spend the extra 0.50/rd on a cartridge that can't do anything a .308 can't at midrange.

So what? So if people buy a viable long range cartridge but never use it for that purpose, that's the cartridge's fault? How is that an indictment against he cartridge? Or a result of marketing? Surely you can point to this marketing you speak of.

I can't address that. If you want to throw your money away on the latest fad cartridge, be my guest.

Is it always about what you can shoot the cheapest? I buy new brass. Both the ranges I use require members to pick up their own brass and I would never use range pickup brass anyway. So I see little difference, considering that I WILL be shooting up to 1200yds with a cartridge that shoots significantly flatter with less wind drift than the .308.

If you are buying new brass then you can shoot a Dasher, 300 WSM or a 284 Win like the big dogs.

Let's be honest. YOU have no use for the 6.5 and are unable to accept that others might have wants & needs different from your own. So you choose to be condescending and cynical instead. Seems like some shooters reach the point where they stop enjoying the process of buying and shooting guns and start getting their kicks out of being a cynical critic.

No, Creedmoor is a good midrange cartridge as I said. Probably going to make it as a hunting cartridge. If you want to buy one it's your business. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to buy. I'm also not going to let an ammo mfg's marketing hype make my decision on a cartridge, I'll do my own research. The truth is Hornady wants people to believe they can compete with their factory ammo. I give them credit for a new marketing concept but in the real world of AR's and competitive shooting it's just another cartridge that has no real advantage anywhere.

 

[Llama Bob]

They aren't buying their rifles at Cabelas and they aren't using Hornady ammo, are they?

Actually the Hornady ELD ammo has pretty low SD and good accuracy with certain chamber reamers. I know several long range competitors that shoot it some of the time. You have to check velocity and accuracy by lot #, but that's still much faster than loading for people who value their time.

 

[CraigC]

The Creedmoor is a good midrange cartridge but isn't real popular with F class shooters presently.

Who said anything about F-class? This is the second time I've posted this link.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/10/12/best-rifle-caliber/

As far as an AR cartridge I suppose it works but with a 16-18" barrel and a lousy trigger what's the point? All of that midrange accuracy is lost so why spend the extra 0.50/rd on a cartridge that can't do anything a .308 can't at midrange.

Where's this fifty cents a round crap coming from? If you're talking about factory ammo, that's dirt cheap.

I guess the real question here is, why does any cartridge other than the .308 even exist???

If you are buying new brass then you can shoot a Dasher, 300 WSM or a 284 Win Imp like the big dogs.

And where are these factory rifles chambering these cartridges? Oh yes, I forgot, there are NONE. the "big dogs" are shooting $5000 custom rifles or similarly priced custom jobs. I bought into the long range game with a $1250 factory rifle.

If you are buying new brass then you can shoot a Dasher, 300 WSM or a 284 Win Imp like the big dogs.

Hypocritical. Shouldn't you be deriding the .300WSM for being a new cartridge that does nothing the .300WinMag doesn't? It's only 6yrs older than the 6.5, surely it must be crap too. How about the 6.5x47 and 6x47 Lapua cartridges, they're new, aren't they crap too? Or maybe the .300WM is crap for not doing anything the .300H&H didn't. Where does this nonsense end?

I can't address that. If you want to throw your money away on the latest fad cartridge, be my guest.

I didn't buy a fad. You can keep repeating that crap over and over again, it won't make it any more true. I bought into the 6.5 because it's the better tool for the job. BECAUSE IT MATCHES THE .300WinMag's TRAJECTORY WITHOUT THE EXPENSE AND RECOIL. I've repeated this several times now. Are you listening??? I don't even know the source of this marketing hype you accuse me of falling for and apparently, neither do you. You don't like anything new, I get it but if you're going to participate in discussions like this, be prepared to counter with facts, not uninformed opinions. Which is all you've brought to the table.

I'll do my own research.

And apparently you're so arrogant as to think you're the only one. Surely anyone who makes a choice that conflicts with yours is an idiot duped by marketing.

 

[Llama Bob]

I bought into the 6.5 because it's the better tool for the job.

And as it stands it remains the best off the shelf tool for long range PRS-type shooting (tied with 6CM and .243 essentially). The state of the art hand-loaded solution right now is just 6/6.5CM in small primer brass loaded way above SAAMI. I don't like the safety situation there, so for practical purposes Hornady factory ammo in either caliber is as good as anything I'm going to use.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Who said anything about F-class? This is the second time I've posted this link.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/10/12/best-rifle-caliber/



Where's this fifty cents a round crap coming from? If you're talking about factory ammo, that's dirt cheap.

I guess the real question here is, why does any cartridge other than the .308 even exist???



And where are these factory rifles chambering these cartridges? Oh yes, I forgot, there are NONE. the "big dogs" are shooting $5000 custom rifles or similarly priced custom jobs. I bought into the long range game with a $1250 factory rifle.



Hypocritical. Shouldn't you be deriding the .300WSM for being a new cartridge that does nothing the .300WinMag doesn't? It's only 6yrs older than the 6.5, surely it must be crap too. How about the 6.5x47 and 6x47 Lapua cartridges, they're new, aren't they crap too? Or maybe the .300WM is crap for not doing anything the .300H&H didn't. Where does this nonsense end?



I didn't buy a fad. You can keep repeating that crap over and over again, it won't make it any more true. I bought into the 6.5 because it's the better tool for the job. BECAUSE IT MATCHES THE .300WinMag's TRAJECTORY WITHOUT THE EXPENSE AND RECOIL. I've repeated this several times now. Are you listening??? I don't even know the source of this marketing hype you accuse me of falling for and apparently, neither do you. You don't like anything new, I get it but if you're going to participate in discussions like this, be prepared to counter with facts, not uninformed opinions. Which is all you've brought to the table.



And apparently you're so arrogant as to think you're the only one. Surely anyone who makes a choice that conflicts with yours is an idiot duped by marketing.

I think I've made my point.

I'm not going to get into a shouting match and personal insults.

Have a good day.

 

[eastbank]

boys,boy,s.

 

[CraigC]

I think I've made my point.

I'm not going to get into a shouting match and personal insults.

Have a good day.

You have yet to make a valid, truthful point or successfully counter any point that I have made. You've been asked repeatedly to answer direct questions and have repeatedly ignored them. All you've shared here is closed minded prejudice against something you clearly have no knowledge of.

 

[Llama Bob]

You have yet to make a valid, truthful point or successfully counter any point that I have made. You've been asked repeatedly to answer direct questions and have repeatedly ignored them. All you've shared here is closed minded prejudice against something you clearly have no knowledge of.

Agreed. Mr. 49 should be ashamed of his behavior.

 

[Gtscotty]

Where's this fifty cents a round crap coming from? If you're talking about factory ammo, that's dirt cheap.

I guess the real question here is, why does any cartridge other than the .308 even exist???

I'm always confused when folks bring up cost in these discussions as if that argument favors the .308. I shoot a decent amount of .308 and 6.5 CM, and honestly .308 is almost always more expensive for me to load, this is especially true of the pricey extra heavy bullets you have to use in the .308 to make it buck wind like a relatively standard 6.5 load. For me, the cases cost the same, primers are the same and the amount of powder used is pretty much the same with the CM using a tiny bit less. Decent bullets are by far the largest cost, and at least around here, within brands and types of bullets, heavier pretty much always equals more expensive. Sure you could buy cheap trash .308 and run it through your precision rifle, but what's the point? If I'm pulling the trigger on either my 6.5 or my .308, there will be a decent bullet on top of a carefully prepared load in the chamber.