My bil is shooting Hornady 7mm Rem Mag 139 gr interlock American Whitetail ammo. He stated a small hole goes in and a small hole out. I think he's used to a 30.06 leaving a big hole out. He wants a bigger hole out. I'm thinking he should go up to about 160gr bullet. Deer are mostly shot around 100 yards away but could be to 800 yds. Any thoughts or suggestions? He does not reload.
7mm Rem Mag hunting deer ammo
- Thread starter Boss-302
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MachIVshooter
Member
Are the deer not dead enough for him?
Seriously, who would want more meat damage??? I swore off 115 gr. ballistic tips in my .25-06 after taking an 80 yard Texas heat shot on a running pronghorn and finding that some skin was the only thing keeping her right rear leg attached to the rest of her.
Seriously, who would want more meat damage??? I swore off 115 gr. ballistic tips in my .25-06 after taking an 80 yard Texas heat shot on a running pronghorn and finding that some skin was the only thing keeping her right rear leg attached to the rest of her.
No animosity at all, just good frank talk among brothers...
Assuming he's human, he can select commercial ammunition with a lower copper-to-lead ratio like Winchester Combined Technology, or go to a heavier bullet (as you astutely suggest!) to slow down the velocity. But slower velocity means more bullet drop, which requires a 100 inch holdover for those 800 yard shots, which is frankly total bunk.
800 yards, brother Boss-302 is that a misprint? If your brother-in-law regularly shoots white tail at 800 yards he doesn't need your advice, nor mine. He's a god. He can shoot any ammo he wants, and he knows it.
Assuming he's human, he can select commercial ammunition with a lower copper-to-lead ratio like Winchester Combined Technology, or go to a heavier bullet (as you astutely suggest!) to slow down the velocity. But slower velocity means more bullet drop, which requires a 100 inch holdover for those 800 yard shots, which is frankly total bunk.
LeonCarr
Member
He should go up to a 160 Grain Bullet in a 7 Mag.
A buddy of mine has been shooting a 7 Mag exclusively for about 20 years, and used to swear by 139-140 grain bullets because they were fast and flat shooting. Then one morning a monster 10 point whitetail walks out at 35 yards. One broadside shot later and the deer looked like it was hit with an RPG. Both shoulders destroyed, bone splinters throughout the front half of the deer, and about a 6 inch exit hole. Destroyed it so badly he could not do a shoulder mount.
I taught him to handload and now he uses handloaded 160 Grain Sierra Gamekings. Since switching to heavier bullets he has never lost a deer or a shoulder roast
.
Also, if he is shooting deer at 800 yards the heavier bullets will have a higher ballistic coefficient and less drift.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
A buddy of mine has been shooting a 7 Mag exclusively for about 20 years, and used to swear by 139-140 grain bullets because they were fast and flat shooting. Then one morning a monster 10 point whitetail walks out at 35 yards. One broadside shot later and the deer looked like it was hit with an RPG. Both shoulders destroyed, bone splinters throughout the front half of the deer, and about a 6 inch exit hole. Destroyed it so badly he could not do a shoulder mount.
I taught him to handload and now he uses handloaded 160 Grain Sierra Gamekings. Since switching to heavier bullets he has never lost a deer or a shoulder roast
.Also, if he is shooting deer at 800 yards the heavier bullets will have a higher ballistic coefficient and less drift.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
140s are fine for deer, in my experience. Remington Core-Lokt (green and yellow) box are premium bullets at a less than premium price.
He shouldn't be shooting at anything farther than he can hit a 10" plate, from an improvised rest. In the wind.
He shouldn't be shooting at anything farther than he can hit a 10" plate, from an improvised rest. In the wind.
oneounceload
member
I have been using a 7mag since 1980 with 140 Sierra or Noslers for deer and 160s for elk. Personally, even before I got older, I would not have taken an 400 yard shot, let alone one at 800; I'm not that good of a shot to warrant that. Anything between 140, 145, 150, 160 will do the job.
ZWCoffindaffer
Member
Any 7mm RM ammo will kill a deer.
I personally didnt like the American Whitetail in my 7mm. I would say go to a 160 gn bullet. If he only uses factory ammo I would say Federal with a 160 gn Nosler Partition or Hornady Superformance with a 154 gn SST
I personally didnt like the American Whitetail in my 7mm. I would say go to a 160 gn bullet. If he only uses factory ammo I would say Federal with a 160 gn Nosler Partition or Hornady Superformance with a 154 gn SST
Steel Talon
Member
AFAIC..
The best killing ( performing ) premium bullets are the Barnes Triple Shock bullets. I've taking several LG.game animals including Buffalo.
Weight retention and petal blooming are supurb creating great entrance , internal cavitation damage and big exit wounds.even at long distances ( 500+) bullet performance is outstanding.
Give then a look,you and your friend just might become fans.
The best killing ( performing ) premium bullets are the Barnes Triple Shock bullets. I've taking several LG.game animals including Buffalo.
Weight retention and petal blooming are supurb creating great entrance , internal cavitation damage and big exit wounds.even at long distances ( 500+) bullet performance is outstanding.
Give then a look,you and your friend just might become fans.
Resist Evil
Member
I've been using 160grn Nosler Partitions for at least fifteen years on deer, elk, and puny antelope at distances ranging from 50 to ~300 yards with my 7mm Rem Mag Win 70. I have no reason to change out ammo. It always works when I do my part.
ETA: I use this ammo as loaded by Federal.
ETA: I use this ammo as loaded by Federal.
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outlawjw
Member
I've shot 7mm for at least 40 years & when I got my hands on the 140 red tip btbt I have once or twice missed my mark & damaged a ground burger front shoulder but I have never lost antelope,mule or whitetail, elk , or rabbit. It ko's them every time & no trailing. The bullet is usually just under the skin on opposing side, except with the antelope & rabbit
The difference in diameter between 30-06 and 7mm bullets is 24/1000". No animal will ever notice the difference.
Heavier 160gr bullets are designed for game much larger than deer. That would be a good long range elk or moose bullet. It is LESS likely to expand on a small deer at normal ranges.
The 139-140 gr bullets he is using are ideal for deer size game. I wouldn't change bullet weights, and Hornady Interlocks are known to be a good bullet. Not the most aerodynamic for long range shooting, but they typically expand well. Sounds like they are working just fine.
double bogey
Member
I like the 139 gr. interlock in 7 mag. Haven't had a deer go further than 30' from where he was hit using them.
d2wing
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The heavier bullets that are designed for Elk go through without much expansion and leave a small exit wound, you need a lighter bullet rated for deer that will expand quicker. Faster bullets tend to expand faster. Heavier slower bullets tend to penetrate more without expanding as quickly. Deer tend to run further using the heavy bullets that I have shot and my son.
I'm disagreeing with the general statement that heavier bullets are designed for big animals like elk, not small animals like deer.
Projectile engineering is much more technical than that.
Many bullets available heavy-for-caliber (example - like Nosler Ballistic Tip Hunting) are designed with thinner jackets at the nose to expand more quickly on lighter game. In fact, many shooters complain that Nosler Ballistic Tip open up too easily, even though they are available in rather heavy weight-for-caliber. Opening up quickly isn't just weight, it is also jacket construction.
Conversely, many bullets (like Nosler Accubond) are designed with thicker jackets to expand more slowly to get deeper penetration before opening up, if ever opening up. Even if an Accubond is lighter weight, it will open up more slowly than a Ballistic Tip Hunting.
My choice of BT and Accubond as comparative examples will help you understand that jacket construction is extremely important, in fact vitally important. Even if you don't use Nosler, comparing the construction of those two bullets (and then seeing that BOTH are available in the full range of bullet weight) are good for personal education. It's not just the weight, it's also the jacket.
Oh, but it's not just jacket design. Some hunting bullets are bonded, some not. And some use the cannelure to help lock the jacket to the core, even if you don't use the cannelure to crimp the case mouth. (Hornady Interlock is an excellent example, in Hornady's words the cannelure "works with InterLock® ring to ensure the core and jacket remain locked during expansion".)
So how does bullet weight make a difference, even if construction is the same? Heavier bullets often carry more energy while travelling slower. If that's what you need, bullet weight may be the answer.
So it's not just bullet weight. It's not just jacket. It's not just core. You need to learn everything about the design of each bullet when making your choice.
I know I disagree with some of you, but no animosity intended. Any of you who think I'm just a stupid idiot who doesn't know that heavy bullets are always designed for elk, you may ignore me. I won't be hurt. I like all gun guys and especially those who hunt. Even if we disagree, we're still brothers here.
Projectile engineering is much more technical than that.
Many bullets available heavy-for-caliber (example - like Nosler Ballistic Tip Hunting) are designed with thinner jackets at the nose to expand more quickly on lighter game. In fact, many shooters complain that Nosler Ballistic Tip open up too easily, even though they are available in rather heavy weight-for-caliber. Opening up quickly isn't just weight, it is also jacket construction.
Conversely, many bullets (like Nosler Accubond) are designed with thicker jackets to expand more slowly to get deeper penetration before opening up, if ever opening up. Even if an Accubond is lighter weight, it will open up more slowly than a Ballistic Tip Hunting.
My choice of BT and Accubond as comparative examples will help you understand that jacket construction is extremely important, in fact vitally important. Even if you don't use Nosler, comparing the construction of those two bullets (and then seeing that BOTH are available in the full range of bullet weight) are good for personal education. It's not just the weight, it's also the jacket.
Oh, but it's not just jacket design. Some hunting bullets are bonded, some not. And some use the cannelure to help lock the jacket to the core, even if you don't use the cannelure to crimp the case mouth. (Hornady Interlock is an excellent example, in Hornady's words the cannelure "works with InterLock® ring to ensure the core and jacket remain locked during expansion".)
So how does bullet weight make a difference, even if construction is the same? Heavier bullets often carry more energy while travelling slower. If that's what you need, bullet weight may be the answer.
So it's not just bullet weight. It's not just jacket. It's not just core. You need to learn everything about the design of each bullet when making your choice.
I know I disagree with some of you, but no animosity intended. Any of you who think I'm just a stupid idiot who doesn't know that heavy bullets are always designed for elk, you may ignore me. I won't be hurt. I like all gun guys and especially those who hunt. Even if we disagree, we're still brothers here.
d2wing
Member
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Well Ants, I agree with you. Bullet construction is very important. My point is also valid. Given equal construction a light bullet moving faster will expand quicker in a smaller animal, and a heavy bullet moving slower of the same construction will tend to expand slower and penetrate more. Also heavier bullets are generally constructed for bigger game.
But as you said, bullet design can over ride general rules about bullet performance. Some ammo makers will tell you on the box what animals the bullet is designed for.
But as you said, bullet design can over ride general rules about bullet performance. Some ammo makers will tell you on the box what animals the bullet is designed for.
Clark
Member
477 yards
I have killed 6 mule deer and 2 antelope with the 7mmRemMag.
I like 140 gr nos ballistic tips the best.
139 gr SST, 120 gr BT, or 150 gr BT will work too.
I have used; Ruger #1 [stock], VZ24 [I built], Rem700 [I built], and Browning 1885 [stock].
Clark
Member
I think there is a skill level question.
Some putz like me [50 long range shots a year] is better off stalking deer to 400 yards and shooting a light fast flat flying 140 gr 7mm bullet. That bullet may have the ballistics of a ping pong ball at 1000 yards, but I don't care.
But if your name is David Tubb [master of doping the wind, shooting thousands of long range shots], you would be better off with a heavier slower arcing bullet and lobbing heavy bullets into the deer at much longer ranges.
Some putz like me [50 long range shots a year] is better off stalking deer to 400 yards and shooting a light fast flat flying 140 gr 7mm bullet. That bullet may have the ballistics of a ping pong ball at 1000 yards, but I don't care.
But if your name is David Tubb [master of doping the wind, shooting thousands of long range shots], you would be better off with a heavier slower arcing bullet and lobbing heavy bullets into the deer at much longer ranges.
It's unethical to hunt at more than about 400y no matter how good a shot you are or how good you are at estimating wind. Bullet flight times get up towards the 1s range very quickly, and an animal can move a LONG ways in 1s if it decides too. It's simply impossible to guarantee a clean kill under those circumstances.
Clark
Member
Every year I build an average of 3 rifles and take them out into the desert and see how far away I can keep all the holes in a 12" kill zone.
Up until 2015, I found that 270, 260, 257RA, and 300 Win Mag were good to 400 yards, but any of (4) different 7mmRemMags were good to 500 yards.
This year I had a 6.5-06 qualify out to 600 yards, a 300 Win Mag out to 500 yards, and my brother's new 7mmRemMag out to 300 yards.
My brother was shooting so well. He got holes touching hundreds of yards out. He is a better shot than me. But he was nuts for food. We would just start getting work done, and he would accuse me of trying to starve him to death, and we would have to drive back to town.
He got lots of animals, see pic, but he got them all at less than 300 yards.
Up until 2015, I found that 270, 260, 257RA, and 300 Win Mag were good to 400 yards, but any of (4) different 7mmRemMags were good to 500 yards.
This year I had a 6.5-06 qualify out to 600 yards, a 300 Win Mag out to 500 yards, and my brother's new 7mmRemMag out to 300 yards.
My brother was shooting so well. He got holes touching hundreds of yards out. He is a better shot than me. But he was nuts for food. We would just start getting work done, and he would accuse me of trying to starve him to death, and we would have to drive back to town.
He got lots of animals, see pic, but he got them all at less than 300 yards.
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