9mm Parabellum Loads for Browning Hi-Power - Opinions Sought

[Anthony]

Hello Everyone,

I bought my wife a beautiful Browning Hi-Power Mark II made entirely in Belgium. Before sending it off the Cylinder & Slide shop for a few custom touches I was trying to settle on a load to have the new sights regulated for. As I have very little experience with the 9mm Parabellum my knowledge is somewhat limited in defensive ammunition in this caliber.

So what do you Parabellum fans stuff in your nines?

Why do you prefer this particular load?

FYI...I am only interested in 115 and 124-grain loads as I have read enough to be disinterested in the 147-grain flavors. I am particularly interested in any loads that have historically be especially accurate in the Hi-Power.

Thanks for the help.

- Anthony

 

[Zip06]

My FN High Power which is a Mark II is fed Federal 9BP exclusively. That is standard pressure, 115 grain JHP. It is extremely accurate and reliable and is the benchmark for standard pressure 9mm rounds.

 

[ThePerfectOne]

our Belgian army is equiped with the HP, and the only ammo they shoot in it is 9mm para 124 grain +p: gives you 1250 f/s and a rough 420 footpounds.

I shot it once, and it was not very accurate, it had a tendency to go to the left, but I think it were just those crapy sights. it was a military one, made in 1952, and still in service

you actually can't go wrong with any sort of factory ammo, these things are build to last and to survive your great-grandchildren

 

[BHP9]

I would do some serious Re-thinking in regards to having fixed sights put on your High Power.

I own High Powers both ways with fixed and with adjustable sights and the fixed sights are nothing but a pain in the you know what.

As you mentioned they have to be regulated for a certain velocity and bullet weight as well as a certain fixed distance. If the load you are using ever becomes unvailable or if you decide you want to switch to another more advanced round that may yet to be invented you are basically up the creek.

Most people use their guns the most on the target range and you simply cannot beat a good pair of adjustable sights. Contrary to old wives tales most adjustable sights are every bit as rugged as the fixed sights and have non of the drawbacks of fixed sights.

If you have the extra money their is no need to put up with the restraints of having a gun with fixed sights. It may not be the trendy" in thing" right now but it still is the most practical by far.

People with adjustable sights put the sights dead on and hit what they are aiming at while people who are stuck with fixed sights are constantly using Kentucky windage and elevation on the target range to try and hit what they are aiming at.

 

[Al Thompson]

Anthony, can't exactly help with the HP, but I've become a real fan of the 124 grain Gold Dots. Accuracy from several different guns was great. I've also used this load as a finishing shot on deer and higs with good expansion and penetration.

Currently I'm using Georgia Arms 124 +P GD loads. I have found no difference between these and the Speer LE ammo. From all reports, Pro Load seems to be the midwest equal of Georgia Arms.

As regards BHP9's insightful remarks about sights, I'd just add that it depends on what you want to do with the pistol. If your going to shoot IDPA style matchs with the occasional paper punching, I'd go with fixed sights. For more precision, I'd look at adjustables.

 

[RON in PA]

From what I know of the HP, I would advise the use of primarily standard velocity rounds as the life of the pistol will be inhanced considerably. Federal 9BP and Winchester white box 115gr JHP work well.

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't have a BHP, but my other 9mms get Federal 9BP and equivalent reloads; 115 gr at 1150 -1200 fps.

I have guns with adjustable sights that have not been touched since their second or third trip to the range. When I got them set for my usual load, I left them alone. I have guns with fixed sights that were drifted and filed for my usual load that have been perfectly satisfactory. The main use for adjustable sights is for a target shooter who must be right on at different but known distances or for somebody who changes ammo a lot. On the other hand, if you are getting it extensively customized, an adjustable sight won't add that big a % and will be there if you change your mind.

 

[Chris Rhines]

I carry Black Hills standard pressure 124grn JHPs. Cheap, accurate, and very reliable.

- Chris

 

[Wildalaska]

Hi I have fixed sights on my HP, I never have to use Kentucky windage although sometimes elevation, my usual practice load is 115 grain ball from HSM, my carry load is Ranger 124JHp

 

[BHP9]

For those of you that like the Space Age look of Novak sights he has just announced that he will be marketing a sight that looks just like his fixed rear sight but is adjustable for elevation. It is only drift adjustable for windage which is a big drawback as compared to the elite sights like the Bomars but for those that like to turn the 1911 or High Power into a new wave looking weapon this may be the sight for you.

 

[Dave R]

The Remington 124gr Golden Sabre grouped best in my BHP (clone) and also performed well in my informal expansion testing. So that's what I carry in mine.

 

[Harold Mayo]

Don't listen to BHP9!!!

Novak sights just LOOK cool on hi-powers. Don't worry about anything else. Just get fixed Novak sights.



Anything is fine but fixed sights ARE more rugged than adjustables. ONE piece of steel as opposed to multiple pieces tied together with other pieces...hmm...

I have nothing against adjustables on an intellectual level but won't have them on a handgun. For what I do with a handgun and what it's purpose is to me, fixed sights are the only way to go.

 

[Neal Bloom]

Ditto on the Golden Sabres for my BHP.

 

[Zak Smith]

I always use the 124gr Gold Dot in either standard pressure or +P form. It operates 100% in my BHPs and has good terminal ballistics.

-z

 

[Zak Smith]

As for adjustable vs. fixed sights, the difference in trajectory due to different velocity is virtually nothing. If your pistol is sighted in at 10y with a 1100fps load and you shoot a 1300fps load, the difference in POI is only 0.05" at 10yards, and 0.36" at 30 yards. (Assuming a BC of 0.10, and same POA.) Do you really care about 0.36" at 30 yards?

-z

 

[Wildalaska]

Do you really care about 0.36" at 30 yards?

I cant even see 30 yards

 

[Bob C]

The Federal 9BP's often do very well, but sometimes they don't. Over the years I've found them excellent in about one half the guns I've tried them in, mediocre in the other half.

Triton +P 115's have been good in most guns I've tried them in, as have the W/W Silvertips. The W/W USA white box HP's have also done well in most guns, and are relatively inexpensive.

For most applications I strongly favor adjustable sights, but other than one tangent sight model I had, all HP's and clones I've tried have been just fine with the fixed sights.

 

[Coltdriver]

Make sure you get in contact with our own Mr Stephen Camp before you settle on your final choice.

He is extraordinarily knowledgable about these guns and I would say has probably fired more rounds through his exquisite collection of HP's than any other poster on this forum, and that is saying a lot!

I learned everything I know about HP's from Mr Camp and www.fnhipower.com and now own an 89 MKIII and a perfect 68 T Series.

You have a great gun, let us know what you settle on

 

[JohnBT]

Georgia Arms 124 +P GD

Fixed sights

2001 black epoxy finish

Whatever the buffer was that Mr. Camp recommended.

John

 

[Tom B]

Winchester 115gr Silvertips non +P

 

[AK103K]

I use the Federal 9BP or Hydra Shoks. I think Federal is the most consistent manufacturer out there. As for sights, fixed is the only way to go on a gun you carry. Most fixed sight pistols I've ever shot have been pretty much on at reasonable pistol distances. Once you know they are on, they dont go anywhere.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello, Anthony. You've been given some pretty darned good advice on ammunition usage. As I mentioned in my PM to you the other day when I couldn't get my response to post right, I've had extremely good luck with:

Federal 115 gr JHP std pressure
Federal 124 gr Nyclad HP std pressure
Hornady "Custom" 115 gr XTP
Hornady "Custom" 124 gr XTP
Triton 125 gr Hi Vel +P JHP


Let's toss Remington's 115 gr +P JHP in the mix as well after reviewing some targets fired with various BHPs.

Now I'll give what I have seen with each of these in animals I've shot with each as well as in informal expansion testing. For some pretty detailed poop on bullet performance, you might want to drop by www.ammolab.com and click on "Test Results," pick 9mm and you'll see how many of the rounds for 9mm did in various gelatin tests.

Federal 115 gr JHP: As has been mentioned, this one's usually pretty darned accurate, but can turn in mediocre accuracy depending upon whether or not the particular pistol "likes" it or not. It will still be grouping smaller than "minute of human heart" in any quality pistol and certainly in a Browning HP. It's not particularly "hot," but the older bullet design does seem to work well in the 1100 ft/sec range it generally flies at . It's proven an expander in jackrabbits, raccoons and fox for me and while not "scientific" in how that translates to human aggressors, it did work better than some rounds in both this and other calibers.

Federal 124 gr Nyclad HP: This one's proven exceptionally accurate in some pistols and just "good" in others. The lead hollow point is nothing fancy, but generally expands in tissue or at least deforms due to its soft nylon jacket. The problem is that it's not for sale to the general public anymore. Both it and the load above are not hard-kickers for a non-shooter, either. I've killed a few fox and saw a coyote shot with this load from a Browning. It worked well.

Hornady Custom 115 & 124 gr XTP: Both of these loads have proven extremely accurate in the Browning with the standard bbl. I'd give the 124 gr the edge in terms of accuracy, but remember that I'm speaking of slow-fire groups, not the fast and furious shooting likely in a defensive shooting. Both are accurate. The XTP bullet is always a first choice when searching for an accurate load having some velocity. At the 1100 to 1150 ft/sec, the bullet goes to about 1.5 calibers in diameter and is NOT as aggressive an expander as many other 9mm JHPs. I've had better luck with it than its "controlled expansion" characteristics would lead one to expect. Loaded to higher velocity (1250 to 1300 ft/sec) in an older Corbon +P load or handloads, it's proven most effective. I've taken javelina, a deer, and various other critters using it.

This 124 gr XTP was loaded to about 1250 ft/sec and was recovered from a javelina shot at about 30 yards from a 9mm Browning MkIII Hi Power.

If I remember correctly, penetration was approx. 14" or so. I didn't take a lot of time measuring due to jumping fleas!

Triton's 125 gr +P JHP: Hits velocities well over 1200 ft/sec from the Browning HP, usually around 1250 ft/sec or a bit better. It's bullet looks like the XTP, but expands more aggressively and does not penetrate quite as much as the XTP. If overpenetration concerns are there, I think they're pretty minimal with the Triton or either of the Federal loads. I do think that the XTPs would penetrate a human torso front to back in most instances. How much "oompfh" it has left, I'm not sure. Triton's 125 and 115 gr Hi Vel +P JHPs have proven extremely effective on quite a few javelina. My defensive HP would be loaded with 125 gr +P Triton JHPs and my wife's gun has them in it right now.

Remington 115 gr JHP +P: This one frequently produces very nice accuracy and gets over 1200 ft/sec in every HP or CZ75 I've tried it in. Expansion's been satisfactory in fox, jackrabbits, and informal testing. I would not be afraid to use this load for my own protection, either. I understand that Remington offers this same bullet style in 125 grs now and in a +P loading, but I've not seen nor shot any of it so I cannot intelligently comment on it.

Chronograph Results: I don't know how much use this will be, but it should give you some pretty close data to what your HP will do with various loads.

Unless otherwise noted, the 9mm loads were fired from a Browning HP w/ factory bbl.
The CZ-75 also had std. factory bbl.

9mm Cor*Bon 115 gr. JHP: Ave. Vel. = 1381 ft/sec
9mm Cor*Bon 124 gr. XTP: Ave. Vel. = 1258 ft/sec CZ-75: (125 gr. Sierra Bullet): 1220 ft/sec
(ES: 21 ft/sec!) (ES: 36 ft/sec!)
IMI Samson 115 gr DiCut JHP: Ave. Vel. = 1251 ft/sec (ES:36.25 and SD: 11.95)
9mm Triton 115 gr. HiVel: Ave. Vel. = 1332 ft/sec CZ-75: 1337 ft/sec (ES: 10 ft/sec!)
9mm Triton 125 gr. HiVel: Ave. Vel. = 1281 ft/sec (ES: 27.54 and SD: 11.70)
9mm Triton 135 gr. Quick Shok Ave. Vel. = 1182 ft/sec
(ES: 27 ft/sec!)
9mm Hirtenberg 100 gr JSP: Ave. Vel. = 1299 ft/sec
9mm WW USA 115 gr. FMC: Ave. Vel. = 1161 ft/sec
9mm Glaser Blue 70 gr. Pre-Frag Ave. Vel. = 1534 ft/sec
9mm Handload w/115 gr. Sierra
JHP/6.2 gr. Unique Ave. Vel. = 1242 ft/sec
9mm Handload w/124 gr. Hornady
XTP/6.0 gr. Unique Ave. Vel. = 1243 ft/sec CZ-75: 1238 ft/sec
Same w/moly XTP Ave. Vel. = 1285 ft/sec
9mm Handload w/124 gr. Rainier
PRN/6.9 gr. Blue Dot Ave. Vel. = 1166 ft/sec CZ-75: 1168 ft/sec
9mm Federal 124 gr Nyclad HP Ave. Vel. = 1079 ft/sec CZ-75: 1109 ft/sec
9mm Speer 124 gr GoldDot +P Ave. Vel. = 1199 ft/sec CZ-75: 1243 ft/sec
9mm Remington 88 gr. JHP Ave. Vel. = 1526 ft/sec CZ-75: 1504 ft/sec
9mm Remington 124 gr. Golden
Saber +P Ave. Vel. = 1157 ft/sec CZ-75: 1169 ft/sec
9mm Federal 115 gr. JHP (9BP) Ave. Vel. = 1130 ft/sec
(ES: 25 ft/sec!)
9mm Hornady 115 gr. XTP Ave. Vel. = 1161 ft/sec CZ-75: 1167 ft/sec (ES: 7 ft/sec!)
(ES: 23 ft/sec)
9mm Remington 115 gr. JHP +P Ave. Vel. = 1251 ft/sec CZ-75: 1265 ft/sec
(ES: 24 ft/sec)
9mm Federal M882 Ball Ave. Vel. = 1146 ft/sec
9mm Speer 124 gr TMJ Ave. Vel. = 1141 ft/sec
9mm Magtech 115 gr . Ball Ave. Vel. = 1167 ft/sec
9mm PMP 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel. = 1125 ft/sec Glock 19: 1110 ft/sec
CZ-75: 1124 ft/sec
Handload: Speer 124 gr GDHP/6.0 gr Unique/WSP/Mixed cases
LOA: 1.12†Ave. Vel. = 1234 ft/sec ES ~ 12 ft/sec
Handload: IMI 115 gr Die Cut JHP/Same as above. Ave Vel = 1277 ft/sec

Below, you can see the different POI vs POA for the lighter or faster bullets @ 15 yards from a fixed sight MkIII.

Here's a few more fired at the same distance.

While I do recommend the use of a Wolff conventional 18.5lb recoil spring rather than the factory 17lb standard, IF your wife has a problem of not holding the gun firmly enough, the heavier spring can lead to possible malfunctions, particularly with the standard pressure loads. A spring is minimal in cost, so I suggest that you might buy an 18.5lb standard recoil spring from Wolff (www.gunsprings.com) and then have your wife shoot the pistol with whichever load you choose using both springs. If you use the standard pressure loads from here on out, the factory is just fine, anyway.

Best and good luck.

 

[Dr.Rob]

115 gr Winchester Silvertips––the cost of the hornady "custom" loading kept me away but its a well-made bullet (have a bunch for reloading).

My BHP clone is rated for 124 gr +p but I have never had a desire to test it. (Denver PD issues a 124+p Gold Dot)

It gets a steady diet of 115 gr Winchester and UMC ammo. After all the bad things I read about the 147gr ammo I have no desire to ever buy any.

 

[Jeff OTMG]

I run standard pressure RBCD in my Browning. Not known to feed HP's well until the MKIII version these work well. Compare this RBCD 9mm 60 gr. TFSP 2010 fps / 539 flbs to the Glaser that Mr. Camp listed. There is a new 'Tactical' version coming out, but I don't have the figures on it.

 

[Tacblack]

In my 9mm's which is my favorite round I use 115 Cor-bons. But hard to go wrong with Hydro-shocks or Golddots. I have and have used them all with out a problem.