A possible lesson from the Rittenhouse trial I've not seen discussed

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He did not have any expertise and seems driven by a need to be seen as heroic. He got himself in over his head. The only question is how bad the sentence will be.
This is not a good argument. He was a certified lifeguard. There is some training involved for that. Is he an expert...no. There is repeated testimony that he was continually looking to help people and Kenosha was also his community because that is where his Dad lived. He felt a need to stand up for his community. The kid has "protector, guardian" running through his blood. He's a "wanna-be", but SHOLDN'T a 17 year old kid aspire to be something positive??? I will agree he got in over his head, but his trigger discipline and RELUCTANCE to shoot someone were fantastic as illustrated by his defense attorney in the cross-examination of Grosskreutz.

Your last statement didn't age very well...

The only question left at the time you wrote that was "guilty, or not guilty". It would seem you were premature in your conviction of Kyle...just like the media.
 
I wonder...

If one of the take aways from all this is that we see less armed "militias" out during protests in the future.

I mean, even if Rittenhouse is found not guilty, he has put himself at great risk and has accumulated significant legal fees. I wonder if that fact alone will quench the fire in the hearts of like minded individuals.
I hope you're right.
 
I wonder...

If one of the take aways from all this is that we see less armed "militias" out during protests in the future.

I mean, even if Rittenhouse is found not guilty, he has put himself at great risk and has accumulated significant legal fees. I wonder if that fact alone will quench the fire in the hearts of like minded individuals.
I hope there are MORE men and women willing to stand up and protect their communities from RIOTERS (not simple protestors) if/when the police fail.

I'm fairly sure Kyle will be a wealthy man in the not-so-distant future from all of the defamation that happened to him as a result of the irresponsible media and our "President" calling Kyle "racist, white supremacist, and vigilante". Sandman (the Catholic kid) set a great precedent that the media, and the left in general, still hasn't learned from yet.
 
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He put fires out and gave first aid treatment because he wanted to impress people. He had no training in self defense or firearms. He dove headfirst into a cesspool with no mask or snorkel. He is not evil. He was just emotionally a 17 year who wanted to,I’m-tress people. I knew a youngster like him—me. At 17 I wanted recognition. I joined the Marines where I,learned not to be stupid.
There's nothing criminal in wanting to impress people or any other motive for that matter. I'm by no means denying that the situation he put himself into was bad judgement at best and sheer stupidity at worst, but in the end that doesn't matter. He lived through it and learned a lesson. A big one at that.

I enlisted at the age of 19, tactical mobility, as did my oldest son, long range recon, and while it all was a crash course in evaluating situations you willingly put yourself into, I can't deny I STILL do some things to impress people. Just the people I care about, not any demographic in general, nor do I exist in social media in any shape or form.

People are people and some things are only human. Stupid, maybe, but no-one should be judged by their stupidity when they've undeniably learned a lesson. If they repeat the mistakes they've already done once, they're fair game for any criticism for all I care.
 
Perhaps another valuable lesson was learned by all those that think that rioting, looting and hurting other people and property can go on without any consequences. If the law will not take care of law abiding citizens then law abiding citizens can and should defend themselves, at least as long as we have our guns to do it with.
 
I've mentioned several times that there is a rethinking of SD and property defense along with the responsibility of the civil authorities to respond to property destruction with alacrity as compared to letting it happen for political pandering. That goes for the left and right, BTW.
 
What would evidence Rittenhouse was "looking for trouble" look like to you? To me it's deciding to go to the riot, bringing your AR, lying your ass off about your qualifications as a medic and not having any connections to any of the property or owners he said he was there to protect. And then shooting people. That's not to mention previous statements he made that were ruled inadmissable.

Rittenhouse would have saved himself from his current predicament by the simple expedient of avoidance of stupid people, places and things.

Rittenhouse was at time I’d the incidents an immature boy. Confused between being a medic and a guardian. He did everything wrong. Not because he was evil. But because he wanted to make sn impression on people. His social media posts show that. He wanted be. Looked up to. He lied about his EMT credentials during the incident because he wanted to impress people. He slung an AR 15 across his chest because he wanted to impress people.

He beat the rap but what an idiot! His legendary stupidity is not less so for having gotten away with it. If you do any training or study of tactics (and the law) at every opportunity to be wise or stupid he chose stupid. You'll so see often a trainer point out that he's not going to get in a shootout to protect the money or a bank or convenience store, which is wise. So breaking curfew to do freelance "security" work for free when you're too young to own the rifle you're using...simply epic stupidity. My firearm is to protect me, and my family if they're with me. I hope this doesn't inspire a wave of further stupidity but it probably will. Getting lucky is not the same as being good. If we admonish someone for using an ATM at 1:00 am in a "bad neighborhood" how can we call it anything but asinine to drop off your minor child with at a riot with a rifle? His mom outta be smacked upside the head.
 
Maybe if the alleged adults who are supposed to be maintaining law and order would do their f**** jobs then kids wouldn't feel the need to come in and do it for them....

All I can say is if you're feeling froggy go ahead and jump. I'm not gonna roll the dice like that but maybe you'll get lucky. Don't let your feelings be your skill set.
 
Another Non Sequitur.
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Please enlighten us, professor. I've actually aced many logic classes while studying philosophy and computer science in college, but perhaps I'm rusty given the span of years since school. Your protestations aside, it's hard to see how anyone involved in this soup sandwich had the brains god gave a goose. If I knew ahead of time that skipping a trip to the ATM would prevent two deaths I'd do it, even if I was well within my rights. It's not hard to foresee the risks in a minor taking a rifle to a riot/protest. This is dead simple stuff, guys. Don't do stupid stuff with stupid people, at stupid times and places. No trainer in their right mind would have suggested any of the actions taken, at least up the point where he pulled the trigger.

Anyone that's been at THR for any length of time should understand that a holistic defense plan has hardware and software components. We have at least a half dozen mods here that are lawyers and a deep bench of LE types. For all the bluster about being judged by 12 or carried by six, it's smart to at least attempt to behave in a rational, intelligent fashion. I do understand that children don't have the mental development at that age to make rational decisions which is why they generally can't buy guns or booze or vote.

I can't count the number of times that THR has admonished us to avoid ATMs at night in bad neighborhoods or told that "nothing good happens after 10 pm". Don't answer the door with a gun. Don't be standing around at a shooting holding a gun. Don't grab a gun and walk out the back door in the middle of the night to investigate a noise. Don't clear your house alone. Don't shoot at a dark shape standing in your kitchen. These principles don't go out the window just because you gotta get your pound of flesh in the culture war.
 
Rittenhouse was very foolish & immature to do what he did -- carry a highly-visible weapon
into what was easily foreseen to be a riot -- without training or experience.

"Check"

At the same time, those officially charged with the safety & security of lives and property --and
paid & trained to do so -- are held absent from those clearly foreseeable riots.

"Check"

Leaving the general public -- their lives and their life's work -- as prey to the rioters.

"Check"

Most all of that general public are similarly foolish, immature, untrained and ill-equiped in dealing
with riot. looting, arson, mayhem, violence against themselves, their women & children, and their
life's work.

"Check"





I really don't see the problem.


,
 
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He beat the rap but what an idiot! His legendary stupidity is not less so for having gotten away with it. If you do any training or study of tactics (and the law) at every opportunity to be wise or stupid he chose stupid. You'll so see often a trainer point out that he's not going to get in a shootout to protect the money or a bank or convenience store, which is wise. So breaking curfew to do freelance "security" work for free when you're too young to own the rifle you're using...simply epic stupidity. My firearm is to protect me, and my family if they're with me. I hope this doesn't inspire a wave of further stupidity but it probably will. Getting lucky is not the same as being good. If we admonish someone for using an ATM at 1:00 am in a "bad neighborhood" how can we call it anything but asinine to drop off your minor child with at a riot with a rifle? His mom outta be smacked upside the head.

Sorry, but what have you done about 2020?
 
This is the Strategies, Tactics and Training forum. Comments on the media and the political climate in the US are not on topic.
Unfortunately gun, caliber and load selection are no longer the only issues involved in use of deadly force to save our life. In spite of all the evidence Kyle Rittenhouse could have easily been convicted to spend the rest of his life in jail simply because he was on the "wrong side". I think this is perhaps the most valuable lesson we gained from the Rittenhouse trial. Just trying to make a very significant point.
 
Another lesson might be the affirmation that open carry doesn't always deter bad guys.

I'm starting to understand that. I wish more people would take a hard look at when and where people open carry. A riot or protest on public property may not be in everyone's best interest. CC if you just have to be at the party.
 
Unfortunately gun, caliber and load selection are no longer the only issues involved in use of deadly force to save our life. In spite of all the evidence Kyle Rittenhouse could have easily been convicted to spend the rest of his life in jail simply because he was on the "wrong side". I think this is perhaps the most valuable lesson we gained from the Rittenhouse trial. Just trying to make a very significant point.

ST&T is not the place to make that point. Politics are not on topic here. PERIOD!
 
Please enlighten us, professor. I've actually aced many logic classes while studying philosophy and computer science in college, but perhaps I'm rusty given the span of years since school. Your protestations aside, it's hard to see how anyone involved in this soup sandwich had the brains god gave a goose. If I knew ahead of time that skipping a trip to the ATM would prevent two deaths I'd do it, even if I was well within my rights. It's not hard to foresee the risks in a minor taking a rifle to a riot/protest. This is dead simple stuff, guys. Don't do stupid stuff with stupid people, at stupid times and places. No trainer in their right mind would have suggested any of the actions taken, at least up the point where he pulled the trigger.

Anyone that's been at THR for any length of time should understand that a holistic defense plan has hardware and software components. We have at least a half dozen mods here that are lawyers and a deep bench of LE types. For all the bluster about being judged by 12 or carried by six, it's smart to at least attempt to behave in a rational, intelligent fashion. I do understand that children don't have the mental development at that age to make rational decisions which is why they generally can't buy guns or booze or vote.

I can't count the number of times that THR has admonished us to avoid ATMs at night in bad neighborhoods or told that "nothing good happens after 10 pm". Don't answer the door with a gun. Don't be standing around at a shooting holding a gun. Don't grab a gun and walk out the back door in the middle of the night to investigate a noise. Don't clear your house alone. Don't shoot at a dark shape standing in your kitchen. These principles don't go out the window just because you gotta get your pound of flesh in the culture war.

All valid points, but after your diatribe about Rittenhouse being a stupid kid who had no business there, I made the comment
Maybe if the alleged adults who are supposed to be maintaining law and order would do their f**** jobs then kids wouldn't feel the need to come in and do it for them....

I did not address Rittenhouse's tactics, skill set, experience or wisdom. Perhaps I misunderstood your response but it didn't seem to have anything to do with the observation that when law enforcement won't do their job, others will.

Somehow, you must have taken some kind of personal offense because you had to look up my profile to find out where I'm from so you could make some snarky comment about "problems in Texas." That doesn't follow either.

"Problems in Texas?" Yeah, well we don't seem to have the same kind of widespread looting and arson going on elsewhere. Here, the cops are still doing their job.

In Houston, the Mayor (who, incidentally has a D by his name and who also was a State senator representing much the same area as Shelia Jackson Lee) and the police chief (who the Mayor hired and who is a real cop, not a politician) have both made it abundantly clear they won't put up with the nonsense. They'll support your right to protest all you want but you get violent and they come after you.

We're not hearing much about armed vigilantes shooting "peaceful protesters" down in Texas, are we?
 
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