acquiring a small frame tanfoglio elite

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priler

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is there any way at all to buy or order a small frame tanfoglio elite stock 2 in 9mm here in the USA?(or any other of the elites for that matter)

it bugs me to no end knowing that just over the border in canada these exist and that we here in the USA have to deal with what eaa DECIDES to import. i really wish that eaa would just simply die and go away.

i would not be interested in conversion kits for this stock 2.

a small or large frame elite of a specific model,are exactly the same gun,...so if eaa is already importing the model,they should have no problem importing the small frame.(from a legal point of view)

do any of you americans own a small frame elite,and if so,how did you get it?

also,the issue is not small hands.i have medium to large hands.the issue is better trigger control,a better feel in your hands and spending my money on what i actually want.if you want to know what i mean,hold in your hand,back to back,an armalite ar-24,a witness classic 1 or a ria/armscor map1 and then your elite.any of these cheap three will put to shame how your expensive elite feels in your hand and the type of trigger technique i use in DA mode for no lateral/horizontal pulling.

i would also not be interested in changing to SAO or drastically modifying the grip on this particular buy.

thanks.
 
Don't know how to get one but I'm with you... The Tanfoglio Elites are awesome, fumbling around with the large frame in 9mm and .40 sucks when they're supposed to be born small frame...

I went to the CZ Shadows in 9mm and now I'm happy, but yeah an Elit Match is near as good for half the price, but in large frame they also cause headaches while the CZ's do not, it's actually kind of worth the premium IMHO.
 
a cz shadow isn't a tanfoglio/witness elite,..is it.

your basically paying more and getting less quality and features.

i'll grant that the entire related family,whether it be cz,tanfoglio and others,tend to have above average combat accuracy because of the basic design,..but the shadows,as nice as they are,are still just service grade pistols with added improvements to help it become more focused and facilitate improved accuracy.(some of those improvements have already been addressed in tanfoglio's basic design.)(and you don't have to eliminate any safeties on the tanfos to get a good trigger,which adds to what you may want to use it for)

the tanfoglio elites are in another ball league all together.the way they're made,the versatility to add or make changes and the ease of working on them far surpass any of the cz shadows,..not to mention that they are hand fitted pistols and some even have more specialized barrels and lock-up.of course,it's the shooter behind the pistol that makes the biggest difference,similar to fighter aircraft,but your still comparing an apple to an orange.


...but more than that,it doesn't address the thread. a cz shadow in your hand is about exactly the same as a large frame elite.the small frames are different.(all part of many improvements made by tanfoglio to the basic design)
 
EAA has an agreement to sell only the one-large-frame-fits-all Witness pistols.

RIA has the US exclusive on the original Witness pistol, and sells them as the MAP1 (steel) and MAPP1 (polymer). While they don't sell an "Elite" version, it wouldn't hurt to drop them a line.
 
in that case,i'd prefer an ar-24-15c.


....still would prefer an elite though.
 
Having owned a couple Elite Match's and a Limited I'd agree they're incredible guns, for the money I don't know if they can be beat really, but I wouldn't say a CZ Shadow is inferior having experience with those as well, I'd say the Tanfos are a way better bang for the buck or perhaps that the Shadows are overpriced but performance-wise they're pretty equal and here in tge US the CZ's are better supported... Now if EAA aspired to reach the level of a CZ-USA or if Tanfo just used Henning as their importer and got away from EAA that could change astonishingly quickly.

For $300 and then maybe a little more $$$ in parts from Henning and that "classic" might be a good path to try...
 
supposedly,there's a new distributor that's coming here to the US,..i.f.g.(italian firearms group=tanfoglio,pedersoli,fair,sabatti)

i'm hoping that they have the strength of will and courage to import everything that tanfoglio produces,including their small frame elites. they will distribute,import and take care of warranties but they will be located in central florida and that's where eaa is,which makes me wonder how much influence eaa will have.

i hope they get here sooner rather than later to see what develops.
 
railroader said:
nalioth said:
EAA has an agreement to sell only the one-large-frame-fits-all Witness pistols.
Click to expand...
I just got a new small frame witness that says EAA. on it. They are selling on gunbroker right now. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=227295283 Mark
Click to expand...
Ever hear of "new old stock"?

How about "business liquidations"?

I didn't say EAA never sold them, I said they no longer sell them.

The fact that this gunjoker seller got hold of some NIB originals doesn't mean that EAA is currently selling them.
 
Before this thread, I never even thought about the idea that there *were* small-frame Elites -- figured that was just a model line based around their large frame. Now I want a 9mm Elite in a small frame. Decisions, decisions ...

Man, collecting of any kind can get expensive, and this is no exception.

timothy
 
Where did you hear about this IFG? I would love to have it just tear the heart out of EAA and take over the market. Witnesses are great guns, but EAA stinks!
 
EAA finally switched to a new magazine design by mecgar that actually works for the 9mm elite matches. (If that helps any.)
 
I had this same dilemma a few years ago, a desire for the small-frame Witness 9mm and no availability due to a marketing decision.

I found that the Armscor MAP pistols are the small-frame design. I was never able to verify whether they were made from Tanfoglio parts, but whatever they are they're a Witness assembled by Armscor, and it's the small-frame gun.
 
Rittmeister said:
I found that the Armscor MAP pistols are the small-frame design. I was never able to verify whether they were made from Tanfoglio parts, but whatever they are they're a Witness assembled by Armscor, and it's the small-frame gun.
Click to expand...
I've posted quite a bit on the RIA MAP/MAPP line of pistols.

They're Tanfoglio pistols, made under license. Since EAA has the "Witness" line for itself, RIA sells these original models as the MAP1/MAPP1 here in the USA. Elsewhere in the world, the same pistol is sold as the Tanfoglio Force.
 
yes,nalioth is correct.i'm not sure where this vendor/s is getting them from but the classic 1 is the witness that eaa use to sell.it's basically NOS and very nice pistols.these have the rounded slide.

yes,the ria map1 comes from tanfoglio parts sent to the philippines and assembled there by armscor and then imported here by ria as the map1(mapp1 is the polymer version).these have the more square,heavier slides.

just make sure you like the front sight on all of these small frames or you'll have to figure something out.

something interesting i've noticed is that when some people have had their slides crack(apparently only 10mm and sometimes .45acp) on their standard witness steel(rounded slide) from eaa and sent them in for repair,when they come back they have the more square slide like on the map1. just thought i'd mention that. it's definately not a problem in 9mm though.(and i am NOT saying a small frame slide will fit a large frame and visa-versa,they don't)

all new eaa guns(witness/elite line) shipped after 1/11/11 will come with the new mec-gar mags(i'm not referring to something a dealer may have got in before this date). they hold 17 rounds stock. the part number for the 9mm version is MGWIT9SFAFC(these are for all of the tanfoglio 9mm large frame guns,inluding elites,...not for small frames). you can also easily find mec-gar mags for the small frames.these hold 16 rds stock.the part number for these is MGGT2116B(small frame 9mm only and they fit and work perfectly for the classic 1,map1 and armalite ar-24). sorry,i don't have the part # for other calibers or for compact versions,but you should find that easily.

you can also use the henning H-141 base pad with spring and follower for the large frame mags and load 20 rounds,..with 21 rds and a closed slide,the follower will hang-up on the bottom.i can imaging that if you invent a spacer on the H-141 pad to fill the gap,you can probably load up to 23 or 24 rds. he also has a base pad version for the small frame mags without the spacer so it shouldn't have this problem(yet another reason to have a small frame elite).

also of interest to some might be that the ar-24 is not exactly in the same league.once you understand what it's all about,it actually falls somewhere between the service pistols(classic 1,map1,eaa steel) and a full blown competition/target gun(elites). just make sure that you like the front sight.it may have a dove tailed front sight but i know of no front sight that is a direct fit and you may have to figure something else out if you want to change it. i have studied the schematics on the ar-24 and it appears to me to use all the same parts,internally,as any small frame witness pistol(i can not assure this with 100% certainly,but i think this is correct).

also,eaa(small frame) and 22 conversion kits fit on the ar-24 but the LRHO does not work(who cares).

happy hunting.
 
You maybe thinking the full length frame Elite Match. I was referring to the Witness stock Elite and is similiar the earlier RIA MAP1 without the rail. The major difference between a Elite and Classic is the square slide vs round slide IIRC. I have a earlier no rail MAP1.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by railroader
Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth
EAA has an agreement to sell only the one-large-frame-fits-all Witness pistols.
I just got a new small frame witness that says EAA. on it. They are selling on gunbroker right now. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=227295283 Mark
Ever hear of "new old stock"?

How about "business liquidations"?

I didn't say EAA never sold them, I said they no longer sell them.

The fact that this gunjoker seller got hold of some NIB originals doesn't mean that EAA is currently selling them.
but it means they are new.
 
Well, it's great that Mec-Gar is making mags that actually work for the 9mm large frames, but now that the newer ones come with a rail and before that losing the Bo-Mar-style "super-sight" they're not the sleeper powerhouse they once were. While still the most gun a guy can get for $500 easy IMO, the rail makes them too heavy for IDPA and the newer adjustable Novak-style sight just plain sucks and in 9mm you're lucky if your gun doesn't shoot 6-12" low with it adjusted as far as it'll go... So now even if they get better importation straightened out they may also have to address if they've altered there products too much to be as desirable in the American market; their line is getting IPSC-compliant heavy for Europe, but models that'll work in IDPA as well as USPSA is their real ticket to $$$ (not to mention making us shooters happy).

Tanfoglio is and has been blowing it in the American market for a while now, they have a product that could make them a major player very quickly in the biggest handgun market in the world, but instead of giving us the best models, making money hand-over-fist and earning the owner or owners a couple Ferrari's or Lambraghini's they're settling for a mere fraction of a percent sized share of the market by doing business with probably the worst and commercially inept importer on the planet; EAA... If I were the owner or senior staff at Tanfoglio I would be f'ing pissed!

IMO they need to talk to a company like Ducati; an Italian company that after years of being under-represented in the American market, now owns a nice-sized slice of it, and maybe more important to longevity and continued success, a respected and influencial slice of it.
 
Last edited:
they're coming out with a stock 3 too. have you heard of this? it has a 5" barrel and a full length dust cover with rail and comes stock as a DA w/over-travel stop. it will also have the super-sight and square trigger guard.i've only seen pictures of it in gun-kote finish.

speaking of ducati,i love italian bikes. i have an aprilia super-bike.
 
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