Almost had a KB, but not quite

[EdJennings]

I was at the range yesterday shooting plates and just generally plinking around.The ammo I was using was some .45 ACP 185gr JHP that I had reloaded many years ago. I finally decided I needed to shoot some of it. After several magazines full without incident, the gun (S&W 1911 E series full size) appeared to fail to fire. Keeping the gun pointed down raqnge, I thumbed the hammer back and let it fall again. Nothing. Still keeping the gun pointed down range I waited a few seconds, fearing a hangfire. After waiting 10-15 seconds, I racked the slide and an empty casing poped out. At the same time a fresh round chambered, with the slide going fully into battery. At this point, some folks would have probably assumed some sort of feeding glitch and simply gone back to shooting-for one shot. You guessed it. There was a bullet lodged in the barrel, far enough in that the next round chambered without difficulty. Pulling the trigger would have resulted in a disaster. I have had 1-2 rounds go off before that lacked a powder charge (out of 10's of thousands of reloads), but always had some sort of clue, like a popping noise. This time, I would have sworn that the gun simply did not fire at all. Word to the wise, if something doesn't feel right stop and check it out.

 

[wally]

Well done!

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

It seems odd that you didn't even hear the primer as these are fairly loud by themselves. Whatever happened, however, you were right to stop shooting at that point. I would also suggest checking the rest of your loads to be sure you didn't double-charge one.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

It seems odd that you didn't even hear the primer as these are fairly loud by themselves. Whatever happened, however, you were right to stop shooting at that point. I would also suggest checking the rest of your loads to be sure you didn't double-charge one.

I had a primer only with a Walther PPK/S once. It was a click with a hiss.

 

[EdJennings]

There were several other people shooting nearby and that may have masked the report from the primer.

 

[ObsidianOne]

Did you feel any kind of strange recoil or lack thereof?

Seems like there have been a lot of these lately.

 

[ilmonster]

Had the same thing happen today. Firing some reloads from my Glock 19, and got a pop instead of a bang! Took the barrel off and looked down it, and there sat a the round 1/2" from where it was originally chambered. Another round could/would have resulted in a KB.

Now my issue is to find a rod of some type to hammer the stuck bullet out of the barrel without damaging the barrel.

 

[9mmepiphany]

When on the line at a range, I've found it a good practice, when shooting reloads, to drop the magazine before racking the slide. If you were concerned about the possibility of a hangfire, opening a path for excess gasses to vent isn't a bad idea.

Seeing an empty case ejected would be the first sign that a bullet was still in the bore...especially if the slide didn't cycle.

Whatever you use to drive the bullet out, don't use a wood or fiber rod...they can shatter

 

[JRH6856]

Now my issue is to find a rod of some type to hammer the stuck bullet out of the barrel without damaging the barrel.

I've used a 3/8" hardwood dowel for this but a brass rod would be better

 

[1SOW]

Shipping cost is high (*), but If you order two or more of these it's a good buy.
I made two punches and a squib rod with some left.

Amazon.com
Brass 385-H02 Round Rod, ASTM B455, 1/4" OD, 12" Length
Sold by: ThyssenKrupp OnlineMetals
Condition: new
Quantity: 1
$1.67 each
+8$ shipping*

 

[JRH6856]

OR you can probably pick up a brass or bronze brazing rod at the hardware store.

 

[eldon519]

I've used a wooden dowel rod before, but to protect against shattering as 9mmepiphany warned, I wrapped the tip tightly with duct tape.

 

[vaupet]

this is were HK pays of, they are tested for this situation,
the second bullet clears the barrel and accuracy is not affected afterwards

(from the testreports for the mk23)
should be sold with the warning 'don't try this at home' imho

 

[intercooler]

Reloading can save money but could cost you too.

 

[JRH6856]

this is were HK pays of, they are tested for this situation,
the second bullet clears the barrel and accuracy is not affected afterwards

(from the testreports for the mk23)
should be sold with the warning 'don't try this at home' imho

Doesn't quite work that way on the 1911 as I found out.

Gun. Colt 1911A1 Mk IV Series 70
Load 210gr Bridges LSWC, 7.2 gr Unique


What happened: While firing a double-tap drill, I had my 1911 lock up on the second shot. Upon inspection, I found the slide jammed about half way back with a case partially extracted. The case was heavily scorched. The slide would not move in either direction. Dropped the mag and carefully inspected the weapon. A rod down the barrel revealed no obstruction--the rod went all the way into the case. But the rod also indicated that the barrel was bulged about 1 inch behind where the barrel busing was jammed.

A few whacks with a nylon hammer applied to the rear of the slide drove the slide forward. I could then field strip the gun. Upon removing the barrel, I found a bulge at exactly the point indicated. Looked like a snake that had just swallowed a rat. The slide had jammed on this bulge--actually the fingers of the MK IV bushing had jammed around it. Other than the bulged barrel and damaged bushing (1 broken finger) there was no damage to the gun. I replaced the barrel and bushing and the gun ran perfectly.

What appears to have happened is that the first shot was a light load that drove the bullet a little over halfway down the barrel but was sufficient to cycle the slide. The second bullet drove the first one out of the barrel but not before the pressure between the two bullets (just compressed air) bulged the barrel. The pressure of a full load of 7.2gr of Unique behind the second bullet was sufficient to drive both bullets out of the barrel and the recoiling slide jammed on the bulged barrel.

 

[RogersPrecision]

Another account of a squib cycling the pistol for a second shot!
I've also seen pigs fly, but they were assisted by high explosives.

 

[dom1104]

Another account of a squib cycling the pistol for a second shot!
I've also seen pigs fly, but they were assisted by high explosives.

Lol....those hks really are something arent they?

 

[rcmodel]

Reloading can save money but could cost you too.

Not if you do it right.

As for the squib?
I'd be more concerned about the missing powder.

Is it in another round for instance?

rc

 

[JRH6856]

Another account of a squib cycling the pistol for a second shot!
I've also seen pigs fly, but they were assisted by high explosives.

It was the secong shot of two in quick succession.
The barrel had a bulge.
The bushing was jammed on the bulge.
There was no obstruction in the barrel.
There were no pigs around.

If a squib did not cycle the pistol for the second shot, please tell me what might have happened instead.

 

[jerkface11]

If a squib cycled your gun you need a heavier recoil spring.

 

[JRH6856]

^^^^ I probably changed the spring out when I replaced the barrel. I know I did put one but all this happened over 30 years ago.

And it is possible for a below minimum pressure load to fully cycle the slide but it has to be the right combination of factors.

A slightly oversized bullet that increases resistance

A fouled barrel that increases resistance

A light load that pushes the bullet only part way down the barrel,

Yet still generates pressure that has to go somewhere for relief. Since the bullet is in the way, the pressure drives the slide rearward to completely cycle.

Yes, all of the gasses escape rearward as well when the case ejects, but it is a low power load and in this case I was already more concerned with getting a quick second shot than noticing the recoil from the first.

 

[eldon519]

A bullet stuck in the barrel should not cycle the slide. The impulse (or momentum change) is what drives the slide backwards. If the bullet doesn't leave the gun, there is no momentum change on the overall system. No momentum change, no slide cycling. Maybe it would knock it slightly out of battery. If you watch a slow motion video of a 1911 firing, you see that the slide just BARELY begins to move as the bullet exits the muzzle.

Pressure trapped at both ends also doesn't push a slide in either direction the same way a sealed gas bottle isn't pushed in any direction. If the gas is truly vented out of the chamber, if anything it would have a slight tendancy to push the slide forward, but then again we aren't talking about that much pressure or the bullet wouldn't be stuck in the barrel in the first place.

 

[vtuck2]

Quote:
"Another account of a squib cycling the pistol for a second shot!
I've also seen pigs fly, but they were assisted by high explosives."

The exact same thing happened to me while shooting a Russian Makarov with some premium "self defense" ammunition. The gun cycled and went into battery. However, the report and recoil had been odd so, rather than pull the trigger again, I took a look. Sure enough - there was a bullet stuck half way down the barrel. Later in that same box I had a second squib.

So I can tell you it doesn't just happen with reloads.

V

 

[wildehond]

10/10 for catching that one. Not sure I would have caught that problem!

 

[eldon519]

A Makarov makes more sense for cycling with a squib since it is a blowback firearm. The barrel and slide are not locked together when in battery.