almost shot the maintenance man this morning

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Krinkov

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I had some repairs done last week due to some water damage in my bathroom.

The maintenance man came by this morning without calling ahead and when he knocked on the door I ignored it.

I couldn't see who was at the door and I had just woke up...heck I was still in my boxers...I just didn't feel like messing with it right now. So I ignored the knock on the door. I fugured whoever ti was would go away.

Well the next thing I notice is that the door handle starts jingling and I realize someone is either picking it or keying it.

At this point I I felt it probably wasn't the maintenance man since they will just go away and come back later.

So I grabbed a PPK/s I had in my desk drawer and cocked it after the person opened my door and was fiddling witht he chain lock at the top. They then shut the door and walked off.

I immediately opened the door and looked out ands it was the assistant maintenance guy who is pretty much half-retarded. He then turned back and was coming back to me. When he saw the pistol in my hand he froze. I yelled at him and told him he almost got shot.

I then called and yelled at the apartment manager.

Stupid idiots.
 
He then turned back and was coming back to me. When he saw the pistol in my hand he froze. I yelled at him and told him he almost got shot.
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A creative and motivated DA might make a case for assault out of this.

Plus five points for being ready to defend yourself. Minus ten points for being aggressive and confrontational while holding a gun.

-BP
 
wrong. In Oklahoma any unauthorized entry into your home is subject to lethal force.

The maintenance man had no right to make entry into my dwelling.

The fact that I could not see him and therefore could not identify him as an employee of the complex is in my favor.

Furthermore, any employee should have said "hello..maintenance!" not just make entry into the dwelling.

Furthermore I did not aim the pistol at the guy except while he was behind the door. Once I established he was the maintenance guy I was merely holding the pistol in my hand.

You could call that brandishing but no prosecutor around here si going to pursue this. If I had called the cops they would have sided with me and told the maintenance guy that he should have announced himself.

Don't tell me if you were sitting in your apartment and suddenly sommeone made entry into it that you wouldn't react.
 
Don't tell me if you were sitting in your apartment and suddenly sommeone made entry into it that you wouldn't react.
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uh, that isn't the way you said it went down, dude. You said there was knocking and then the door handle jingling, etc. You never said "who's there"? or made any attempt to identify the 'intruder'. You live in a rented apartment. The owner has the right of entry, under certain conditions. Sorry if you don't like it, but I think you over reacted, especially brandishing the gun after the 'threat' had left.
 
wrong. In Oklahoma any unauthorized entry into your home is subject to lethal force. The maintenance man had no right to make entry into my dwelling.
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Ok. Granted. He had no right to enter, and if he had actually entered, you might have had lethal-force justification.

However, comma, once he had ceased attempting entry, even in a state such as Oklahoma, your right to resort to lethal force evaporated.

Don't tell me if you were sitting in your apartment and suddenly sommeone made entry into it that you wouldn't react.
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If I were in my house and someone suddenly made entry into it, absolutely I would react. But if they stopped trying to gain entry, or left the premises, then one of two things would happen: If it turned out that I knew the person, and I didn't feel threatened, I'd put the gun away (holster, gunsafe, wherever), and then go and tell them they were a knucklehead for having tried to come in unannounced. If I didn't know the person, or I felt they presented a continuing threat, I'd be inside, on the phone to the police. The "hold a gun while shouting about how I almost shot them" option just wouldn't ever occur to me.

If you were safe enough from the guy to go shouting at him, you were safe enough not to have a gun in your hand. If he presented enough threat for you to have a gun drawn and in-hand, you had no business confronting him.

-BP
 
I don't have to verbally challenge the intruder.

I don't know what state you live in but in Oklahoma you have every right to defend yourself.

I aslo worked as a law enforcement officewr for the Oklahoma City Housing Authority. We were required to announce ourselves upon making entry.

Anyone who doesn't announce themselves is an idiot.

I told you exactly how it went down.

He comes to the door, knocks but says nothing. I am not required to say anything.

He then opened my door with his key but from inside the apartment I had no way of knowing if he was picking the lock or keying it. Then he keeps fumbling witht he chain lock.

The whole time he says nothing...no identification from him.

Furthermore, brandishing a firearm is different from holding it merely in your hand.

I can contend that as I opened the door to se who was trying to make entry into my apartment and therefore I still had reason to be in fear of my safety and having the firearm in my hand would be reasonable.

I did not aim the weapon at him or wildly wave it about.

Once Identified him as maintenance I slamed the door on him and called the apartment manager.

I guess you live in an area that is a bit different legally, but I know the law here and I would have been justified.
 
Justified in shooting a retard? Legally, perhaps, but morally? Wouldn't you feel a little bad?

Chewing the guy out is one thing, fine. But put the gun away first. Or at least don't let him see it. Especially if he really is slow.
 
You know this whole post has rubbed me the wrong way. As I see it you did something that at the very least made gun owners look like idoits. Standing in the hallway yelling at a, as you put it, "half-retarded guy". I don't care if YOU think you were justified or if YOUR interpretation of the law point you in the clear. It boils down to the DA and what the public thinks when they read about it prior to either your crimnal or civil trial.

I guess my question is this once you saw who it was why did you yell at him? If the gun (a PPK which is a small gun) wasn't real obvious how did he see it.

One thing that really bugs me on here is when someone posts a event such as this and then when anyone disagrees with them they get mad. If you don't want to have your decisions questioned then don't post them on a internet site.
 
I could care less about your opinion.

Feel free to express it, buddy.

Have a nice day.
 
I am hardly a troll.

I just could care less because some guy bashes me for something that I know I am right on.

He wasn't there..I was.

If it makes you feel better to dismiss me as a troll then so be it.

Just what makes you think I am a troll anyways? I have only posted about 7 posts here and all have been firearms related.

People like you make me tired.
 
I have to side with Krinkov on this

As I understand the issue in Colorado, the actual owner of a rental property has the right to enter said unit for routine maintenance and the like, but must provide advance notice of the entry. The only exception to this is an actual emergency, such as water flooding into another unit or the like. In every apartment I've rented before buying my own home, the Management has done JUST that, provided written, advance notice of need to enter.

Jiggling on the door, opening and entry w/o notice or announcement is a good way to get oneself shot here (Colorado, not just my home). The only fault I see in Krinkov's actions were in NOT changing the locks as soon as he took possesion of the apartment.
 
i have been noticing a disturbing no. of these threads recently and I must tell you guys - COOL IT!! You make it bad for other gunowners and give people ammunition for their anti-gun fight :what:

The sequence works like this- BRAIN THEN GUN!!

Your story does not add up either for e.g.

1. You opened the door before looking out after you suspected a potential lethal encounter (that's why you went for your gun, right? )..why not look out first???

2. Why did you not conceal the weapon and why yell to the man that he could have gotten shot.. those 2 actions could be interpreted as aggravated assault.. Be careful!!

..
 
I'm sure you couldn't care less about my opinion, either, but I'll try reaching out anyway.

Your post is titled "almost shot the maintenance man this morning", which immediately brings up the idea in the reader's mind of, "Oops! well that's doesn't sound too cool, unless the maintenance man was assaulting Krinkov. Let's see what happened, maybe Krinkov has some wisdom for us here about lessons learned from the incident."

Then we find the lesson learned from your story is that everyone in it but you are "stupid idiots", and you seem to feel that you handled the situation perfectly.

Now in my (probably unwanted) opinion, the "pretty much half-retarded" maintenance guy obviously should have declared who he was- and you had just awoke, so you may not have been at your peak.

However, since you were armed and ready to go, it would have been a good idea to ask who it was. If he then said who he was, you may have recognized his voice and told him to wait a minute. Then you could have checked to see that it really was him (the whole time being armed and prepared in case it wasn't).

Seeing it was him, you could have covered up your gun and then talked to him, letting him know the danger of entering apartments without identifying himself (not neccessarily mentioning firearms), and then called the manager to inform them as well.

Just adding to the discussion.
 
First off, I've noticed a distinct lack of civility in this forum lately. That stops now! Everyone needs to re-read the Strategies and Tactics rules and the THR user agreement and rules. If everyone here follows those rules we can have good civil discussions about very contentious issues. We've had long civl threads on gaming vs. training and point shooting vs. sighted shooting, subjects that normally degenerate into online shouting matches and end up in closed threads.

Krinkov said;
I could care less about your opinion.

Feel free to express it, buddy.

Have a nice day.
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If you don't care about someones opinion on your actions, why did you post it here? Isn't the purpose of an online forum to discuss these things? We're a big online community here and there are plenty of opinions. Don't be surprised if someone doesn't agree with you.

I don't think that anyone here says you were wrong to prepare to defend yourself. I think this is the point of contention here:

originally posted by Krinkov:
I immediately opened the door and looked out ands it was the assistant maintenance guy who is pretty much half-retarded. He then turned back and was coming back to me. When he saw the pistol in my hand he froze. I yelled at him and told him he almost got shot.

I then called and yelled at the apartment manager.
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I don't think anyone would have a problem with looking out the door to see what was going on. However it may not have been the most tactically sound thing to do, to just open the door and step out. If there was someone intent on a home invasion and they knew you were inside, they could have been waiting in ambush. I don't know if you have a peephole in the door or if you checked it first, your post doesn't say.

What would have been wrong with keeping your pistol in hand, but holding it behind your thigh so it wasn't visible to the maintenance man or anyone else who might have been in the hall? I know over the years I've used just that technique many times as a peace officer to be very ready if a situation felt wrong, but not alarm the people I was dealing with unnecessarily.

You have to admit, that to charge out into the hall with a firearm in hand and yell at the maintenance man, no matter how much he may have deserved it, could escalate the situation. You never know how someone might react to that. What if the maintenance man had lost his temper and attacked you at that point? Would the state's attorney have declined to prosecute had you shot him then? Ahh...problem 2 as my friend El Tejon refers to it.

The fact of the matter is, that how people who weren't there percieve your actions will mean everything. No one who was there will be involved in judging them. The law isn't consistantly applied. A police officer and a prosecutor and maybe a grand jury...who weren't there when it came down, are going to decide if your actions were lawful or not. Public opinion will have a lot to do with it too. Anyone who is making blanket statements like:

originally posted by Krinkov:
I know the law here and I would have been justified.
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Is kidding themselves. The law means what the prosecutors and judges say it means....Your read on it is almost meaningless. Unless you are up on all the court decisions made pertaining to that law you really can't have a clue on what it really means. I can point you to a case where I live where an agricultural trucking company owner shot shot two people fleeing his property after stealing anhydrous ammonia and was not charged....and I can point you to a case in Missouri where a woman was charged with murder after killing her son in what most THR members would consider lawful self defense, and she plead guilty and is now doing time in the state mental hospital rather then face the trial that most probably would have aquitted her.

Jeff
 
VERY DUMB! and reflects badly on gun owners. I hope you don't react in such a way next time some little thing happens. If somebody did that to me I'd think they were a lunatic.
 
How did you know it wasn't an ambush when you opened the door.
Bad tactical mistake. Stay in your dwelling, call 911. Report that someone just tried to break in.
Call the apartment manager, report same.
By poking your head out, you took away your element of surprise and broke cover. Bad boy.
Oh, and telling someone they 'almost got shot' could very well get you in over your head....because by the time they repeat it to the Po-Po, it might come out as 'I'm going to shoot you' or something else. Verbal assault, terroristic threats....jail time, no more guns.
 
almost shot the maintenance man this morning

"Well, good for you!"

(Guessing that this may have been the response Krinkov desired when posting.)



Come back Krinkov!
 
geeeezzzz guys this is a forum, if we all agreed all the time, it would be dull..anytime you wash the laundry in public... it goes everywhere... just present your vews, in an honorable fashion, be it pro or con.... no matter how you open, someone will assume to much...and try to paint you in a corner...or re-write the post.. less coffee, more respect. Arc-Lite
 
.... no matter how you open, someone will assume to much...and try to paint you in a corner...or re-write the post.. less coffee, more respect.
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Also... no matter how you open, someone will read the words that you presented...and comment using the information you gave...and possibly may not agree with your posted position, but instead has advice on how to handle that situation differently. This is not an attack, nor an invitation to cop attitude, just an honest response to the situation you put forth.

(With no coffee, and much respect),
-Torpid
 
Krinkov.......


I've read your post objectively and you were borderline assault when you yelled at the maintenance guy with a gun in your hand. The better part of police procedure is actually going to be officer discretion. You may be found innocent AFTER being arrested, but the arrest will remain on record and you will still have lost probably thousands of dollars in the mean time.

Secondly, there is the chance of civil liability to the assistant. He may decide that he has nightmares and can't sleep because of this and sue you for damages, in this case, he would have a decent case.

Third, THR is a place where people may disagree with you, they disagree with me once in a while, so be it, it's still fun to communicate and express opinions and experiences with others who are interested in the same things as me.

Personally (were I a cop) ;) , if I recieved a call like that, and you had told me your story and the maintenence man told me his, I would have arrested you for assault depending upon your attitude. I believe everyone makes mistakes, but if I am lead to believe that you are going to do the same thing to someone else, I would go ahead and make the arrest then and there. Just me.

Of course there is also disturbing the peace, public nuisance....etc.
 
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