Am I just getting old here?

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A 14" barrel, I don't even have a 20" barrel. All of my shotguns have 28" barrels. They seem like good tools for the job.

I've been meaning to get a 20" barrel for the 870 and/or the 1100, but keep thinking it won't matter when I'm barricaded on the second floor or in the attic. Or when I move from the attic to the roof through the trapdoor and start jumping house to house until I decide it's safe to come down by way of one of the neighbor's porches (front or back.) And yes, I've jumped house to house many times over the past 26 years - it's barely 3 feet from brick parapet to parapet. Once or twice a year I do metal roof painting, flashing maintenance and gutter cleaning for the exercise and the view (and the savings.)

My 81-year-old neighbor certainly isn't going up there. :)

John
 
I'll have to disagree with most of the posts here, and yes you seem cranky this morning. :)

I'm as old as most on the boards, but I do appreciate some of the technology. Sure I'd be happy without the extended mag tube on my Mossberg 500, if it was just for the house. But it's also good for three gun where more is better. I also have a light attached to mine, makes a huge difference shooting at night (you do practice shooting in the dark don't you?). And I replaced the crappy little gold bead with a fiber optic front sight, amazing how much better these old eyes work with the fiber optics. And yes, a 20" barrel is much better inside the house than a 28", I can't believe anyone would even argue the point. It's not that a 28" won't work, it's just not ideal for moving around a house, as I recall all of our shotguns were 18-20" barrels in the USN of the 70's.

A lot of you seem to think that just because someone modifies their weapon they are ninja wannabes with no skill, I think that is a bad general assumption. Sure there are a lot of folks that don't have a clue and want to look cool, but some people change from stock to meet a specific need.
 
I'll ride with Okiecruffler. You know us okies have to stick together. My HD guns are as simple as they get. A mossy 500 loaded with 00 buck and an old stevens 16ga with only #6 bird shot. Now I would like to get an 18" bbl for the mossy. I figure with the very short distances that I have in my home anyone that catches a load from either shotgun is going to be hurting in a bad way.

I don't need any lights on my SG because the yard light is bright enough I can see in the house just fine in the middle of the night. It could be a bit problematic for someone not knowing the lay out of the house or just coming in from outside though. Just my $.02 worth
 
I'll agree with the OP. When I bought my shotgun, it came with a tacticool stock and surefire forend. I shouldered it once, grimaced in disgust, and put on a new proper walnut stock and forend. Much better.

I now have a couple of tacticool bits with an original retail value roughly equal to what I paid for the gun sitting on my bookshelf, gathering dust. I also have a shotgun that's actually worth a damn.

I kept the extended mag tube, though. I like the thought of being able to put a half-pound of lead downrange without a reload. Also added a Wilson Combat follower, mostly on account of I'm fond of green.


I hate the perpetuation of the idea that you can't used a shotgun for defense unless it's all loaded down with crap. It seems most guns nowadays have at least three rails, two lights, a laser, a collapsing stock, three reloads worth of shells (don't forget the dragon's breath and flechettes,) a bipod, a tripod in case the bipod breaks, Ghost Ring sights, a red dot scope, and enough sling webbing to mummify a gorilla.

Ugh. Does it still shoot?
 
Hey you can find everything you need for REAL traditional home defense at this link :neener:

In all seriousness though, I think a shotgun with a laser is probably the deadliest close range weapon you can have. Place the dot and pull the trigger. Other than that I don't buy into much of the other "swiss army knife" stuff you can put on a gun.
 
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This is fun....

I do not agree with Awerbuck because I think a light is a beacon on a shotgun, or any gun for that matter. There might be more than one of em.

Gadgets, naw. Gadgets are great for the military and I am glad to see that the boys, and girls now, are finally getting good equipment. I do not see the need for a AGOG or whatever it is on the top of an AR. Whenever some elitist sniffs at my A2 I tell him I can still hit at 500 yards, even with these old eyes.

Now you want to see me make all of the old timers mad let me make a remark about the price of doubles......someone may have a stroke. :eek: Just kidding guys.
 
This is a great thread. I also agree with the OP. My father liked to keep it simple in about every area of life and I followed in his footsteps. About the only parts that I add to guns are scopes and slings, and that's about it. The more stuff on there, the more stuff to go wrong. To me there is something beautiful about a nice wood stocked, blued rifle or shotgun.
Oh, and on the cars, I can't agree more. I had to drive 1000 miles to find a truck with a manual transmission, manual locks and windows. They don't even make cars any more that aren't optioned up the wazzoo. Its just more to break and maintain.
I am only 32 and glad that I haven't gotten swallowed by the tacticool monster. There will always be people that want the latest and greatest and look for an advantage so they can justify it. When it all comes down to it, knowing how to handle your weapon is the most important, not how many tricked out features it has added to it.
 
Okiecruffler,

America has become the land of excess.. For some reason adding bells and whistles, accessories and/or farkles has become the norm. The term, 'supersize me' has reached the gun world.

To each his own. Yep, you are getting older; and perhaps wiser!
 
I like my 870s & AR-15s with 2-point slings as the only accessories, but I don't think a coach shotgun has any advantage to a 870/500/590/1300.
 
OKIECRUFFLER,

I don't anticipate much failing on my 12ga pump. Even if the light and laser quit working, it will still paint the walls red. You see, I don't NEED those things to be effective, they are just nice to have.

But I do see your point. I know a lady that CC's a 2 shot Derringer in .22 magnum. She says she only needs one of those shots. I believe her.

but I don't think a coach shotgun has any advantage to a 870/500/590/1300.
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It does have one advantage... in a survival situation. You can put bird shot in one and a slug in another. Feed the family with anything that comes your way. My 870 can only have one type of round chambered at a time. Lets not mention that a coach has less moving parts to rust and break. I love my 870, but the DB is still alive and well.
 
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Betting 95% of HD situations can be taken care of with a plain ol 870 and a mindset of being PO-ed they're in your place instead of being scared and the willingness to pull the trigger on a perp if need be.

Not old here---but not exactly young either.
 
Well, if nothing else I guess the folks buying all those gadgets are helping the economy. And I don't doubt that they're handy if you play those 3 gun games. But 90% of the new shotgun post sound like they were posted by a 14 y/o with alot more time pushing the button on the remote than pulling the trigger under his belt. My point is, gadgets fail. Murphy lives and he's a funy camper (in fact, from the sound of it he's living in my dryer right now). If you can't take a bone stock 870, throw it to your shoulder and hit what needs hitting, all the doodads in the world ain't gonna make a tinker's dam. And most people would have been better served taking the money they spent on that dohickey and spending it on shells and range time.


Geesh, and I thought a nap would help. Nope, still cranky this morning.
 
IMO/IME one has to think to the lowest level, and keep in mind where something will be used and whom all might have to use it.

Ug,
Family lost all in a natural disaster, except the CCW handguns. Big dad, petite wife and teenage daughter. Immediate need and I took the shotgun out of his hand, and handed him a a lever action in .357.
Wife handled it, then teenage daughter. They stepped out back, and shot it and this was the first Home Gun and the fact one CCW was a .357 was a bonus.

Warehouse setting, two ladies.
I set them up with Bounty Hunters with one barrel being 12 ga and the other being 45-70.
To go with Lever action 30-30's
Now the "office" looks over the warehouse. Pallets, drums and typical warehouse needs.
Steel plates and brick as part of the cover up there , that will keep 30-06 and 12 ga slugs at bay.

You ain't lived until you let loose with a Bounty Hunter inside a Warehouse, to test this in the setting it will be used in. *Fun!*

1100 in .410 with slugs is used by one older lady with physical limits.
She used to shoot skeet and bird hunt back in the day, I mean the old gal can flat shoot this .410!

Here is something that gets me into trouble, and that is keeping things real simple, reliable, and worst case.

I grew up with Vets from previous Word Wars, Korea and such. Some had amputations, some lost an eye, others had limits due to scars, burns and all.

One has to have a gun they can shoot if they get down. - Period.

Vietnam hit, and again all the lessons from the Vets, applied to 'Nam Vets, and the same damn things apply to current Vets from current conflicts.

Add, We are a aging society, just the way it is with ages today.

Yes I know a shotgun, long gun, rifle is best - I also know a lot about detached retinas, neck, back, shoulder, hand, wrist and other surgeries.
I know about Osteo so back, a person steps out of bed and breaks a foot.

Doctor's Orders /Physical Therapist's Order of NO Recoil is serious!

Preacherman is one that has been in War, has a huge amount of hours of training, still with his back surgeries, he could not use anything but a .22, as Doc's orders and he has enough common sense to know more permanent damage will occur.


One fella, almost 30, slipped on his icy porch, broke both hands, and arms, and busted one knee, could not even feed himself. Forget guns, he could not even go to the bathroom.
One second 6'2" and stropping, next he is down.

He had no guns his wife or kid could use, none. This was a wake up call in many areas.
Not only for him, also for the wife and daughter that they too needed to get into gear - as husband/daddy was not always going to be able to protect them.

I can get someone up to speed fast with a 20 ga single shot, as I have for so many years.
That was the first gun , and the second was a Model 10 until I and mine could get the gals better prepared and lessons given.

Reality hits fast, and in the blink of an eye, simple has to be the answer!
 
My HomeLand Security shotgun is a Maverick 88, darn near from-the-factory-box-stock. I did replace the 28" Mod Choke barrel with the 18-1/2" Cylinder bore, and added one of those butt-cuffs that holds 5 slugs.

Mrs. Foggy is much happier now, since I don't poke extra holes in the walls with that 28" barrel.....Long story about nuthin', except it finished with some dire and not so veiled threats about some gettin' whomped upside the head with that long barrel should another 12-Ga muzzle-sized ding appear.
 
If you can't take a bone stock 870, throw it to your shoulder and hit what needs hitting, all the doodads in the world ain't gonna make a tinker's dam. And most people would have been better served taking the money they spent on that dohickey and spending it on shells and range time.
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But to be fair (not always in the spirit of these conversations), there's no necessary contradiction between the two.

I think it's just as much a mistake to interpret doodads (such as an extended magazine tube, sidesaddle, synthetic stock, and light) as meaning that the owner hasn't spent the time on shells and range time. Or that he or she can't take a bone stock 870 and hit with it.

I haven't seen Louis Awerbuck's favorite Old Betsy but I have benefitted from his showing me how and why the LED Surefire on his belt beat the hell out of the incandescent Surefire in my left hip pocket. Took a second, he was right, and I immediately switched technologies. I don't see Louis as a Luddite. Neither are Massad Ayoob, Randy Cain, or others as far as I can tell. Their point, I think, is that technology doesn't substitute for skill. That's a good point, and if it's your point too I'll ride with it comfortably and enjoy the ride.

When I see a grizzled old stranger show up at the range with a well used stock 870 my immediate reactions are different from when I see a younger stranger show up with a shiny new Scattergun Technologies version. From there on, though, I look to see whether they hit. I have seen grizzled old guys with old 870s who couldn't hit the side of a barn from inside. I've also seen some Wilson guys who could. Mostly, though, I don't see a lot of good defensive shotgun work from anyone on the ranges I inhabit. What I usually see is people standing still, blasting away at paper targets that also are standing still. The guns don't seem to make any difference and one is about as good for the purpose as another.

If you're saying that a tricked out shotgun can't substitute for years of hard time developing one's abilities, count me in on that. But I don't agree that a Surefire forend is the surefire sign of an incompetent and that the modifications pile up as increasing indications of incompetence.

I have some prejudices too but I know what they are and often why they are. Pistol-grip-only shotguns scare the hell out of me: when a young stranger shows up with one at the range I go offline and take a break, every time. Flashlights clamped to the barrel or magazine tube send me offline too: invariably the guy is going to spend time refastening that thing between shots, and often the muzzle waves around while he's doing it, and I have a hard time getting any work done while I'm shivering in fear. Anyone who says "Oh darn" or the equivalent after every few shots gets me going backwards fast, and I pack up to leave when I hear words that sound like "The ____ fell off again!" or "I wonder what this does." Show up with a bayonet on a shotgun and watch me throw my stuff into the trunk of my car and make a fast dash for the highway. Prejudices based on years of living, with a burning desire to remain so.

It's a strange feeling not being the crankiest guy in a discussion. :)
 
Hairless makes some good points. Just because you have a light on your 870 does not mean that you are trying to compensate for lack of competence (or lack of genitalia for that matter).
Come to think of it, I never practice with my mounted light or my laser... even when I shoot at night. Therefore, if I ever do need to use them, they will come as an added bonus, not a crutch that I count on.
 
I have to admit that my HD shotgun is indeed black. When I was looking for one I came across pretty good deal on a Mossberg 590A1. That said, if I had found a smoking deal on a coach gun I might have that in the closet instead.

In short: whatever works for you. If what you can afford and/or what you're comfortable with is a single shot break action, then that's what you should use. If you want the Saiga 12 great.
 
I'm not saying that everyone who has a decked out SG is a closet ninja (just most of them). Ands I'll stand behind this statement. The best, and I mean BEST, shotgunner out there would benefit more by spending the money on range time over a laser.
 
The best, and I mean BEST, shotgunner out there would benefit more by spending the money on range time over a laser.
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How do you know I cannot afford to do both? Also, what is this obsession with being "The best, and I mean BEST".

What are you compensating for?

We learned from the recent Super Bowl that "The Best" don't always win.

I'm not saying that everyone who has a decked out SG is a closet ninja (just most of them).
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Since when does putting a light on a gun constitute "decked out". You seem to have some emotional issues that are subconsciously being redirected as hatred towards guns with lights. Tell me about your mother. ;)
 
"you do practice shooting in the dark don't you?). "

Not much, there's no dark in my neighborhood or my house between the front and back streetlights, 7-11 lights a half-block away, the parking lots lights on the other side of the alley and whatever lights the neighbors have lit up on their rowhouses.

I don't even turn a light on to wander around my house in the middle of the night. I can have all the light I want in the bedroom by opening one blind. I keep the bedroom dark and the hall/stairs well lit.

"it's just not ideal for moving around a house"

I don't want to move around. I just want to sit out of the way, behind cover, with a clear view of the top of the single flight of stairs. An extra 8 or 10 inches on my 2 second-floor shotguns isn't going to matter. Won't matter much if I need to haul one through the trapdoor in the hall closet to get to the attic to access the roof. I can get 8' stepladders up there and I'm 6', so a 50-odd-inch shotgun is a breeze. The attic has a 15' ceiling and trapdoor to the roof is a stepout.

FWIW, I'm doing a test as we speak and it will continue into the summer. I have an old cooler with some bagged ammo in the attic. I'll take it to the range long about August and see how it does.

John
 
you do practice shooting in the dark don't you?
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Not like I used to, still yes.
Oh I should mention, back in the day before lasers, lights and all the new offerings, we were doing lessons to replicate real world events.

Not only did I see a mentor shoot with a shotgun in low/no light a firebomb heading for a porch, I would later shoot one too.

I have been in the dark, when a disaster struck, and no 911, no cell phones, and evil is coming in , shooting, to scare off those so they could steal and loot.

My 20 bore slugs turned evil away, and I was young, either still in elementary school or just started Jr High (forget).

See, the deal is, history shows folks survived with simple guns they were one with.

WE, again w-a-y before 3 gun, and other things, really did have folks bring whatever they had, be it a single shot shotgun, lever action, hardware store 32 cal pistol - whatever, and actually set up situations and run through.
them.

From kids to grandparents. Situations that had happened, or could happen.

Escaped convicts from a jail down the way, or chain gang having some get loose, or pack of rabid dogs getting onto property in the evening with a cookout, hot dawg roast with a bonfire - whatever.

Various ways we signaled, and we come running to each others aid, and if that meant dark , in the bed of a moving truck, shooting threats, we did it.

Kids, running the bolts on .22 rifles at night to provide hits and cover fire to allow someone to get where they needed.

Don't tell me a six year old cannot run a bolt so an adult can get to where they need to be, at night - we taught kids this.

Mindset, SKill sets, and way before a lot of what is offered today, came to be.

FWIW they did not have lasers, or lights for handguns, when I was a kid and in the low/dark stopped 3 adults that busted down the front door and tripped trigger to stop that threat to me, and my sibs.

I used a .22 revolver, and my hits went where they were supposed to go!
I first shot that pistol at age 3.

Folks are welcome to do as they please, as Awerbuck says, I ain't gonna be at your gunfight.

None you folks were around when I had incoming...

Re: 28" barrels. I know better,I;ll just mention one shotgun - like the one I have put 300,000 rds through , and this 300k round count gun still works, and it has been in serious situations, and has been the go-to shotgun.

It has also been in a helluva lot of night shoot offs, too.
Including hitting a hand thrown live pigeon near dark worth $2,000.

I do not do AR stocks, nor lasers, as I have too many years, and know about moving targets, and I want to be pointing, not aiming when the firebomb or whatever is tossed my way.
I want to be mobile when in the back of a truck doing 40 mph and making hits too...
 
I'm not saying that everyone who has a decked out SG is a closet ninja (just most of them). Ands I'll stand behind this statement. The best, and I mean BEST, shotgunner out there would benefit more by spending the money on range time over a laser.
Click to expand...

I'm not picking on you, OC, and I don't have a laser on any of my shotguns but I'm also not the best shotgunner out there. I'm everyone else's admiring audience, which makes me very popular and also gives me the opportunity to tell bad guys "Don't worry about me. I'm a lousy shot. Those are the guys you need to take out."

If you can't shoot, and you can't run, you need to be strategic. :)
 
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