Am I just getting old here?

Status
Not open for further replies.
If you can't shoot, and you can't run, you need to be strategic.
Click to expand...

Wise words worth being read again!

Physically limited folks, those expectant moms, the person at home after hip surgery,...

11 pound shotgun is difficult to move with , one better suited with less bolted on works better.

Like a double barrel, or 1100 in 20 ga, or 1400 in 20 ga, or ...

I hope some never get down, as their eyes will be opened.
 
All my guns are bone stock...and I do mean all of them. I shoot 3 gun with them just the way they are. The only thing I ever change are the springs, i.e. recoil, mag tube, magazine, firing pin, etc. I do not and never will hang lights and gadgets on them. I have a Surefire light and know how to use it with handguns and long guns. HD is an 870, plain and simple. If you wanna play with gadgets, more power to you, but some of us simply don't like them.....just my opinion, and everybody has a right to one of those.
 
If you're not striving to be the best, what's the point? If and when TSHTF, do you wanna come in second?

My biggest problem with guns with lights has to do with the fact that if you're using the light to identify a target, you've already made it a target.

If you can afford to spend plenty of range time and bolt crap on your gun, good for you. But if you're bolting a light or laser on there because you're having trouble hitting, you're missing more than the point.

Case in point, tho it doesn't involve SG's with doodads or without. Just the other day I was shooting beside a fellow who had a nice looking 300 wthby mag with a 6-24X target scope. When I first saw him I figured "Guy must know what he's doing." I was wrong. Turns out he missed a deer this year with his 30-30 and a 4X scope and he didn't want t it to happen again. I asked how far away the deer was, he states, "Don't know, wasn't that far." Rather than work on the fact that he can't judge distance or his mediocre shooting skills, he upgrades equipment. I believe too many people do the same thing. "I can only hit one out of three shots, logical solution I need more shots."
I don't what other ranges are like, but I shoot at 3 ranges locally. 9 times out of 10 the guy who shows up all tackticool will shoot 3 inch groups at 50 yrds from the bench with his AR15, can't keep a load of buckshot inside the black at 10 yrds and somehow manages to catch his thumb in the slide of his glock.
 
I don't what other ranges are like, but I shoot at 3 ranges locally. 9 times out of 10 the guy who shows up all tackticool will shoot 3 inch groups at 50 yrds from the bench with his AR15, can't keep a load of buckshot inside the black at 10 yrds and somehow manages to catch his thumb in the slide of his glock.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you shared that.

I thought I was the only one seeing that.
 
As I already mentioned you need to forget the idea that guys with "gadgets" can't shoot. And I'm also older than a lot of you, so I remember what shooting was like in the 60's.

We're not allowed to practice on bad guys down here in Texas (in spite of what you might have heard), but we are allowed to hunt pigs at night. My rounds to pigs ratio is excellent with a 105 lumen light mounted on the .50 Beowulf, not so good without a light. We usually night hunt with a full moon, but trying to hit a running pig at 50 yards in the dark is tough for me. A lot easier with the light. It's not exactly the same as bad guys, but I can't come up with any better practice, and I get fresh bacon.

Lights and lasers are not gadgets, although I personally have never met anyone with a laser on a shotgun. I, and plenty of the guys I shoot with, do have a laser gripped pistol, definately not a gadget, unless shooting faster and more accurately is what gadgets do. There are so many real world advantages to lights and lasers I can't even believe people are still arguing about it. As an example they don't allow these in IDPA (which I do shoot) because THEY GIVE THE USER AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE. And that's exactly what I want in an altercation, every advantage I can get. While lasers are of no advantage to me at 2-3 yards, at 10 and 20 yards I am significantly faster on follow up shots and on head shots. I guess if you guys are all grandmaster IPSC shooters it probably won't help you at all.

Who cares what they used 100 years ago, or 50 years ago, or even 20 years ago. I started shooting junior NRA competition in 1963, do you think anyone is competitive with that technology today? Learn to use the available tools and you'll be better off. Sure your battery might die one day, but does that keep you from driving a car? There are just as many guys with a plain old coach gun that can't shoot as there are with a Scattergun or Wilson. After all, many of the guys with the Wilsons happen to have enough money to buy good quality ammo and practice .

I know many of you don't think pig hunting, or shooting the games is real world. But what regular practice do most people have access too that's better. I'm a firm believer that if you can't do it on the range, you won't majically be able to do it when it counts.
 
Hey Browningguy, I'm an older guy too. Yours is the best post I have read in a long time. I agree with all you have said, I just couldn't word it as well as you.
My favorite quote is " You don't grow old, you get old when you stop growing"
 
Posit a dangerous situation.

Add sm, Lee, PJR, Yr Humble Scrivener, or any other shotgunner who has trained properly and/or glimpsed the Proverbial Pachyderm.

Add one reliable shotgun holding at least 2 shots of good quality buck with more nearby. It can be a 311, 97,12,37,870, 500,SX1, 1100, or whatever. Total modifications consist of fitting the stock and removing the mag plug(if applicable).

And wear marks.

Note that the situation is now dangerous only to the werewolves.

IOW, we OWN this.

No F/O sights, lazers or addons needed. The shotgun does not need to passed through the portals of Vangland or been inscribed with runes of dread by the wizards of Wilson.

It just needs to have been shot.

Lots.
 
Last edited:
I myself am too cheap to add a bunch of crap to a gun. I shoot IPSC with a bone stock revolver where everyone else seems to show up with the latest wizbang. Hell, some of the guns look like they came off a Star Wars set.

Anyway, the money is better spent at the range. Practice is good. Good practice is better.

Did I mention I'm a wippersnapper?
 
Don't learn on a crutch!

Tornadoes Hit tonight

Now one of my irks, is folks learning with a crutch.
NO.
If one learns with a crutch, and loses that crutch, they will fall down! Mentors.

I get angry about new folks learning to shoot with AR stocks and gadgets!

Learn the correct basic fundamentals of gun fit, pattern boards and everything, then , if your situation suggests, use accessories.

Dead Serious and I admit being a bit ticked.
History repeats itself and I know about having simple guns, for serious situations, and having these handy.

Too many times folks have come to the aid of neighbors, when Tornados hit, and more than once gun were lost in a tornado.

Some of my bunch have those they care about in areas hit tonight.
WE had simple shotguns and other equipment done up for them.

Tonight, with 18 wheelers and other vehicles being thrown into bean fields...

One of them single shot 20 ga shotguns and Used Model 10s with 158 gr LRN is being used by a neighbor of one we know.

His gun safe is gone! His shotgun with light, his AR, all his stuff is nowhere to be seen!

He and these others have to get through the night, and with simple tools by golly they will.
Mag-lites, Red Coleman lanterns, $2 plastic flashlights, Disposable Garrity lights, Single shot shot guns, Revolvers....

Do not LEARN on a frigging crutch! This has always pissed me and mine off.

Learn to shoot a frigging shotgun like you are supposed to, Learn to shoot a pistol , rifle like you are supposed to.

That way when your guns are gone due to tornado, fire, flood, with lasers, lights , night sights and all, you can still use a damn gun!

This fella is a nice fella, and real damn appreciative he was raised right, and learned to shoot right.
I assure you he is NOT talking down a single shot shotgun with only a bead or a Used Model 10 with LRN .

Screw all this gear BS! Some of us have BTDT and while good gear is fine and dandy, for some spending $100 on one Surefire is not as wise as using that $100 for another light and other gear.

$1200 for a shotgun? Fine, still for some $1200 buys a shotgun and other needed gear.

Oh yeah, you look at your wife, kids, tornado damage and really have need for stuff and then tell me how damn nice that $1200 shotgun feels at a time like that.

I've seen it more than once, tonight others are finding out the hard way.

Damn Internet, is a faster means of communication with others and it really pisses me off at times Armchair BS-ers get to post.

Screw 'em, feed 'em fish heads and rice.

I assure you, if I have to run into harm's way tonight, which I might, I am running whatever is tossed to me and I know I can do what needs doing as I have done it before.

Most likely a Win SX1, as I know that gun will run in all sorts of weather, and I can run it one handed. This one with slugs thru the factory slug barrel.
I have only put 300,000 thru a SX1 I have.

Sidearm will be a Gov't Model of 1911 with Gold bead front sight.
Model 10 or 19 for backup again with gold bead front sight.
I do not wear silly ass camo, as me an mine never owned any, still don't.
I don't do silly ass TEEM SEEL attire.
I know how to blend in, and move in the dark and black shows up too well in the dark.

One more thing, I and mine ran guns and supplies during Katrina....
Simple guns, simple ammo, and these worked.

You folks do what you want, I may be wrong, but I do have my convictions.
 
OKay, I went back over all my posts just to make sure. I never said a good shooter can't use all those gadgets, just that too many people are relying on them to make up for P-poor skills. And those are the same people who will pipe up to tell folks with less than science fiction guns that their choice isn't adaquate. They back this up with quotes from umpteen internet articles. Might as well use proof from the latest Terminator movie.
 
Steve, my thoughts are with you and yours. Got a couple of buddies I'm trying to get in touch with in the same area. Old school boys, no doubt they're alright as well as those with them.
 
I never said a good shooter can't use all those gadgets, just that too many people are relying on them to make up for P-poor skills.
Click to expand...

If they are than they will fail at the appropriate time and be faced with the results of that. I think serious shooters will learn to shoot and non-serious shooters will sell their shotgun to the pawn shop when the time is right.

Not practicing low light level shooting is foolish. To assume you will never have to defend yourself in the dark is the same assuming that you will never have to defend yourself. If in your entire life the light switch has turned lights on every time you have switched it than I wonder where you live?
 
I'm armed with a coach gun and don't feel I need 500 rounds from a drum magazine to kill an intruder. I'm with ya! The tacticool guys think I have a death wish, but really, I can hit what I point at and in low light, I find a rib/bead and the natural point of my hunting shotguns superior to open sights. I've killed a LOT of teal just after shooting time, 30 minutes before sun up on a cloudy morning when you can't see your watch, yet, without the flash light. You think a BG is going to stand a chance? He ain't even flying! This sort of low light practice is about the best confidence builder you can get! Go shoot your paper with your ghost ring sighted 870 and your tacticool flashlight and delude yourself that you can handle the gun well enough, instinctive enough, for that quick low light shot.

KISS is indeed a proven principle. :D I'll add I really prefer to use a weapon I have actually KILLED something with. I have more confidence in the gun. I hunt with that side by side, I have drawn blood with it. It is as natural as my arm when pointing. You say "hunting isn't combat, the birds ain't shootin' back." To this I say, shooting paper isn't combat and the paper ain't shootin' back and, add to this the ease at which the paper is to hit! It ain't even decent marksmanship practice! Go out and kill something. Get bloody. Learn to hit a bird on the wing. You'll lose some of that tacticool crap when you figure out it just gets in the way and ruins the natural point of the gun.

My heart goes out for the tornado victims. We don't get a lot of 'em down here except with a hurricane. Prayers are out for all those suffering in the aftermath.
 
KISS is indeed a proven principle. I'll add I really prefer to use a weapon I have actually KILLED something with. I have more confidence in the gun. I hunt with that side by side, I have drawn blood with it. It is as natural as my arm when pointing.
Click to expand...

Sort of reminds me of when as a young teenager, I could hit a running rabbit with my single shot .22. As I got older I saved up and bought a semi auto .22(this was tacticool back then) the first rabbit I shot at, I had seven near misses rather than one hit. :D

I learned something from that experience. ;)

No matter how many gee whiz futuristic doo dads you have on a gun, it just can't compare with a firearm that fits you and you have shot to the point where it's just an extension of your body.
 
unless you are weathy or famous a home intruder is not going to be a paramilitary type they are going to be some one looking for money to buy their next fix or a coward looking for an easy target, unarmed I am not an easy target.I know my house like the back of my hand I have basic pump guns but don't feel under gunned with a single shot shotgun if there are 2 intruders in your home do you really think that when bad guy #1 head explodes bad guy #2 is going to take time to see if you are armed with a tacticool gun or a single shot to decide weather to fight or run?.
Roy
Disclaimer : this is the opinion of a middle aged hillbilly plumber that has been down the road a time or two and are based on my personal knowledge and experiences offered to hopefully help you since we live in a free country you have the right to have a different opinion, Some one asked the question
I am just trying to help
 
Tacticality is a pet peeve of mine when not born of actual exigent need. I don't begrudge our soldiers or marines a single piece of gear because if they didn't gain some advantage from it, they wouldn't tolerate it hanging off their rifles. The question then becomes whether the rest of us benefit from similar accoutrements.

In general, I'm happy letting others decide for themselves. The proliferation of parts and aftermarket accessories lets everyone custom-tune a firearm for his or her own tastes, whether for ergonomics (new stocks or grips), usability (extended controls), shootability (different sights), durability (polymer or fiberglass stocks), flexibility (adjustable stocks for different users or layers of clothing), or just plain aesthetics. Everyone has different needs and tastes, and though it may be fun to tease people about their plastic pistols or aluminum poodle-shooters, at the end of the day it's their choice to make and they don't need to justify it on that basis.

However, the tactical crowd do need some justification when they start flinging accusations of insufficiency at "non-tactical" firearms. The general argument put forth is that the newer or augmented solutions are better and therefore offer an advantage over the older alternative. Assuming this is, in fact, the case (which is itself debatable), the superiority of one system has no relevance to how effective the less-tactical alternatives are. Sure, you could do it better, but if the way it's done now works fine, there is no advantage in upgrading.

But that's not how it works. Too often, someone's perceived best is set as the bar and everything short of it is summarily characterized as insufficient. Arguments advanced in defense of this position range from fair assessments that aren't necessarily applicable, to the wildest flights of juvenile fantasy. Almost inevitably, the arguments are put forth with astonishing amounts of fervor and bluster. It's as if the tactical crowd feel defensive about their choices or something.

To be fair, having one's firearms choices questioned put everyone on the defensive. But the gadget-oriented have another reason to be defensive: Whether they believe it to be the case or not, they're treating equipment and practice as fungible.

Every piece of gear purchased comes with the implicit assumption that this single piece of equipment will provide more of a boon than the same amount of money spent on practice ammo. Will a vertical foregrip costing $60 make someone a better shooter than 180 rounds' worth of practice? (I'm using .223 as the hypothetical ammo here, and further assuming that the expensive brass-cased stuff is being used.) How about a reflex sight costing $350--does it instantly grant the equivalent boost to skill that 1,000 rounds of practice would confer? The argument goes that one can buy both the gear and practice ammo, but this argument is patently untrue: You can't spend the same money twice. The tradeoff must always be made. So if a piece of gear doesn't give someone an edge, he's just wasted money that could have been put toward practice. Admitting that someone can do well without the gear has negative implications for his own judgement and skill; hence, the defensiveness.

The fact of the matter is that everything above a minimalist firearm is a crutch. It can be a useful or even necessary crutch (e.g. scopes for precision rifles, IR lasers for night-vision goggles, or foregrips for full-auto), but it's still only augmentation for the basics. Equipment breaks, runs out of batteries, or is left behind, but the basics go with one from firearm to firearm. So, to me, training myself to the minimum equipment I can expect to use is the best investment. I might not do as well as someone with the latest high-speed, low-drag NinjaGear (tm), but what I can do comes from me, not my gear.
 
I'm not that old (41), but I tend to agree with your sentiments. I like K.I.S.S. whether it be for cars, guns, or just a general mission statement for my life. :)
 
I agree with KISS also. My SHTF guns are bone stock with very little to possibly go wrong. I have two cars, one is the computerized monster of a recent Toyota, the other is an older American truck. Guess which one I would take if I had to bug out?
 
i have owned 6 shotguns in my lifetime...first shotgun was a whinchester 1300 defender...bought it at a gunshop...worked perfectly and never malfunctioned once...then i discovered internet forums...

i read how winchesters were fragile and how the 870 was the way to go...i sold my 1300 and got a 870 express hd model...870 had problems ejecting spent shells and had problems feeding shells from the magazine tube...sold that one and got a marine magnum...marine magnum worked perfectly, but i still don't trust it because of the problem i had with the 870 express...for reasons unknown, i bought another 870 express and a 870 police magnum...the express model worked fine, so i gave it to my brother for hd...works to this day...the police magnum had a problem releasing shells from the mag tube..same problem as my first 870 express...my confidence in 870's were shot...and the police mag had not even been fired once!!!

i decided that the 870 was not for me..too many issues...i bought a ttn 1878 double...works perfectly...only two shots, but i know each barrel will fire when they need to...

lesson i learned was that i should use what works for me...internet is great for gathering info, but you need to test your own guns and trust should be earned from experience...

i still wish i had my winchester, and to hell with these remingtons...i know alot of people swear by the 870, but not me...

now i feel safest with an antiquated old double...go figure...when funds allow, i will get one for my brother also...

don't know why i posted this, but...
 
To each his own.

Way back when I first started shooting rifles,pistols and shotguns at the age of eight. I never thought that now,at almost 39, I'd have become a mall ninja with my side saddle equipped ,folding stocked, black 500A :eek: :scrutiny:
 
Hey, Boots, 870s don't do much for me, either, but they used to work well. Remington has been in a slump of late, though, saddens me. But, it's true, and the express models are the cheap ones, less attention to detail and rough finish.

I love the old Winchesters mainly because they do work better for me and they FIT me so danged well right out of the box. I have a 1400 auto and my son-in-law to be has a couple of 1300s I'd like to talk him out of. :D That 1400, though, is just a sweet shootin' machine. I don't really care for cross bolt safeties, but I put up with it on that gun.

Yeah, you read the boards and the only shotgun worth owning is a Remington. :rolleyes: Well, I'm not a Koolaid drinker and have shot other shotguns. I have preferences and they ain't spelled 870.
 
amen brother...for being a peice of junk, the 1300 was one sweet shooter...

not one single problem...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Grandpa Shooter
  • Locked
Am I getting old, or just lazy?
Replies
22
Views
817
jeepmor
J
V
  • Locked
Must be getting old since I am thinking of reducing my small collection of handguns
2 3
Replies
71
Views
5K
Ohen Cepel
O
il.bill
  • Locked
Life Is Too Short To Waste On Threads With Non-Descriptive Titles - Or Am I Just Old And Crabby?
2
Replies
42
Views
2K
45Frank
45Frank
Back
Top