An interesting news story from TN

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We don't know that the fine young man in the car with the gun wasn't hanging out the window firing back towards the fence after the car passed, do we?

No, we do not. We can probably reasonable conclude that he wasn't. Seems like that would have been mentioned by the shooter in the interview, had it been the case.

That raises an interesting question. If someone leaning out of a departing car is shooting at you, is shooting back appropriate, or should you move laterally as fast as possible? If the latter would suffice, there is likely no legal justification for the former.

Although it appears by the bullet holes in the rear of the car that the man defending himself was shooting at the fleeing car inappropriately, we don't know that to be the case.
Again, the questions are whether the man was in fact defending himself and whether deadly force was necessary.
 
You are all forgetting the felony murder rule. The attacker (the shooter in the car) is responsible for innocents that get killed accidentally, not the defender.

Sparse comfort to the victims and their families. In the words of a wiser person than I; there is a time to shoot and a time to cuss the button on your jeans for keeping your <specific body part> so high up in the air.
 
You guys know what the cool thing about this thread is?

For once we could probably ask the shooter whatever we want to. As I stated in the OP he is actively discussing the matter on TGO and probably wouldn't mind answering a few questions regarding the matter. He seems to be a nice and pretty easy going guy.

I'm on my cell at the moment, but when I get home I'll shoot him a PM and see if would like to join the discussion here.
 
As I stated in the OP he is actively discussing the matter on TGO and probably wouldn't mind answering a few questions regarding the matter.

The same thought had occurred to me, but I think the general rule is that if you're involved in something like this, you don't talk about it online. Be nice to buy the man a drink and discuss it in person, but I wouldn't go further.
 
As I stated in the OP he is actively discussing the matter on TGO and probably wouldn't mind answering a few questions regarding the matter.

That just could be what does him in....

Fortunately, he probably does not face much more exposure than that of being charged with some kind of a firearms violation.

It would be too bad if a man who seems to be a good citizen in a bad world were to face charges over this. Of course, had he hit, someone the potential consequences would be a lot more severe, and the likelihood of charges being filed a lot higher.

Incidents like this are what make training valuable.

Should anyone have the opportunity, they should advise him to quit talking and give him some guidance on the lawful use of deadly force,
 
Malcom,

I've always been lucky. I've either been able to talk an armed threat into surrender, or been able to bring enough force to bear that the suspect gave up to keep from dying himself. Some officers haven't been so lucky and have had to pull the trigger. Some officers will refuse to shoot no matter what the provocation. They are frauds who pretend to be defenders of the community and you don't want them defending your family when it matters.

With greatest respect for our Law Enforcement brothers, the job of the police is really not to defend anyone but themselves while they do their job of enforcing the law. Without getting too sidetracked, whether there are some cops who won't shoot under any circumstances seems to be off the point here.

But this is a differnet situation, a citizen is attacked on the street by individuals who use deadly force against him. He replies with deadly force in defense of his own life.

Does he? As pointed out before, the only evidence we have is his bullet impacts into the rear of the car. Maybe there was a current threat. Maybe. Maybe the threat had passed.

If you are on the jury with the facts you know right now, are you inclined to convict the defender for reckless endangerment because he chose to defend himself in a neighborhood against an attacker in a moving vehicle? From some of these posts you apparently would, though it is a minority view.
Hopefully there would be a lot more evidence presented so that we could make the most lawful judgment. I'm not ready to convict him of anything yet.

I'm ready to say that, based on the info that I have right now, I don't think I'd choose to shoot, if in that moment I didn't see something more than I see now.

But, let me turn this around and ask you a question as a law enforcement officer. (You are a law enforcement officer, correct?) If you get a "shots fired" call, and respond to the scene and find exactly the information we have now, can you use discretion at some level and not arrest the "painter"? I don't exactly how the law works in this situation. He fired shots in the city limits. Some hit a car. Some witnesses say occupants of the car fired first. Can you walk us through how you would handle this scene, and what should the "painter" expect from the police and D/A?

And how does it play out if there is other property damage caused by his bullets striking houses?

And how, heaven forbid, does it play out if he shot a bystander?

You may have noticed that we don't go in for anything that passes for bloodthirsty, rambo, chest-pounding stuff here. We try to give the application of lethal force the gravest respect that it is due.

So walk us through how this goes right -- from an officer's perspective.

Thanks!
 
Looks like the guy did good. Locals ought to organize a guard for him, a few guys with AR-15s or something of that sort watching his back while he keeps on painting over all of their gang signs and other graffiti. I think a show of force like that would keep the gang from thinking he is an easy target for revenge.
 
...which could lead to a most unfavorable outcome for the citizen who did that.



Yep--we are pemitted to shoot if immediately necessary in the face of imminent danger.

Too much television?

All of that is true whether we are firing in self-defense or in anger at someone who is driving away.

He replied with deadly force, but was it in defense of his own life? He would have to present evidence that his safety depended upon his immediate use of deadly force. It's hard to visualize how one could still be endangered by a car that had passed. On the other hand, it would probably not be very difficult at all to use re-enactment, testimony, forensic evidence, and simulation to persuade others that a reasonable person could not have reasonably believed himself to still be in danger when he fired.

Personally, I would not like to see that happen here, but that doesn't mean that I think the guy acted prudently or lawfully. The best news for the shooter so far is that he didn't hit anyone.
Why do you think that just because the car passed, he's no longer in danger? How could one prove that the car wasn't going to make a U-turn or that the shooter wasn't reloading?
 
Sam, OK, but I'd point you to TCA (Tennessee Code Annotated) first.

"39-17-1322. Defenses. — A person shall not be charged with or convicted of a violation under this part if the person possessed, displayed or employed a handgun in justifiable self-defense or in justifiable defense of another during the commission of a crime in which that person or the other person defended was a victim."
With the facts we know so far, from a criminal justice standpoint your defender is in a very good position. He was in a place he is lawfully allowed to be, enagged in lawful activity when he was attacked. He did not initiate the action, nor did he use an unreasonable amount of force. For example, if someone spits on you and you were to stab him in retaliation. His actions appear to be contemporaneous with the deadly force attack. By acting in the moment and not waiting until the threat had passed then possibly shooting the attacker at a later time at a different location he can show imminent threat. Unless someone can prove some pre-meditation, such as engineering the situation to make it happen, then this defender cannot be convicted of anything in Tennessee. He has a statutory affirmative defense. Any DA (we call them "Generals" often in Tennessee for Attorney General) would be foolish to seek charges in such a case. What will happen, if I put my swami hat on, is that the facts will be presented to a Grand Jury and "No True Bill" will be returned on the defender, while the attacker will get a "True Bill" for either Aggravated Assault or Attempted Murder. The police will thoroughly check the defenders story along with any evidence available and see how they match up. Any untruths or inconsistencies will stretch out the investigation until they have a clear idea what really happened as opposed to what someone says or thinks happened.

Now remember this is Tennessee Code we are talking about, not California or New York. I doubt this would go as easily in some of our more liberal states. But some things will happen to the defender.

1. He will certainly be detained for a period of time, short or long depending on how complex the scene is and how long his own statements take.
2. He will have to surrender his firearm as evidence and will likely not get it back for months or years while the case winds its way thru Circuit Court and possible appeals.

Before someone argues that the threat had passed, because the bullet holes were in the back of the car I would paraphrase The Princess Bride... I do not think it means what you think it means. Studies have shown that it is much harder to stop an activity while under stress than while calm. So, while the defender may have initiated his action while under imminent threat, at the immediate passing of the threat he will likely be unable to stop pulling the trigger until seconds after the threat has objectively passed. Thats often why newsapapers scream "Cop executes suspect!", when a suspect is shot in the back. The reality is that gunfights are messy affairs that strain the perception and reflexes of all involved. For more on that I would recommend the following link...

http://www.forcescience.org/
 
Why do you think that just because the car passed, he's no longer in danger? How could one prove that the car wasn't going to make a U-turn or that the shooter wasn't reloading?

A sound question, but similar to the same line of reasoning about an attacker that flees after striking. How do you know he isn't just repositioning for another attack? How do you know he isn't planning to turn around and attack you again?

Until he does, you don't. And absent that knowledge, proved by his actions, you can't shoot.

You don't shoot to stop someone from being a threat later. (Someday, eventually, or in a moment or two.) If their motion is away from you (assuming that firing has ceased in your direction of course) then you have to cease hostilities.

Yeah, if that car turns makes a u-turn and heads back your way, it's a threat again. If the attacker reloads and then leans out the car to begin shooting again, it's a threat again.

In either event, the first order of business would be to use the time those actions gave you to vacate the area. The average driver is going to be hard pressed to get that car down to the intersection, pull a u-turn, and get back to your position in under 20-30 seconds. Which would be plenty of time to be well on your way to somewhere else.

The best gunfight you'll ever have is the one you manage to AVOID. (Especially the second time around.)
 
I'd address the other questions individually:

"And how does it play out if there is other property damage caused by his bullets striking houses?" Trivial damages would result unless he hits a gas line, and even then the chances are that you only get a gas leak and no explosion. Not that I'm recommending shooting at gas lines you understand. A homeowner can sue for incidental, even trivial damages, but in all the cases I've worked that has never happened.

"And how, heaven forbid, does it play out if he shot a bystander?" As someone else has pointed out, you are responsible for where your bullets end up. The affirmative defense to prosecution, does not extend to civil actions, so you may end up with a judgement for monetary damages. I can only say that in all my years in law enforcement, I've never worked a case where the "good guy" hit someone who didn't need to be shot. Not saying it can't happen, just that its not as common as the media would have you believe. Also, bystanders are often shot by criminals who are targeting rivals or other citizens who have just pissed them off. The criminals are never sued, usually because they have nothing for the victims family to take. So a citizen who hits a bystander is unlikely to be sued based on the right or wrong of his actions, but whether he has an apparent ability to pay a substantial judgement. In this, the police do have a certain amount of immunity. But regardless, the sovereign (city/county/state) will likely pay a settlement to the family whether the individual shot was a bystander, an accomplice or the attackers themselves. This settlement usually exceeds any death benefits that might go to the family of an officer killed on duty. I'm not saying its right, its just what happens.
 
Malcom, I appreciate your taking the time to walk us through that. It is enlightening.

Under the scenario as given, I am cautiously optimistic that it would be handled that way in most places. (Certainly not all, as you pointed out... but most of the "good ones" ;))

How does TN handle questions of the felony murder rule and questions of liability for damages, injury or death caused by the "victim" in defending himself?

Your points about "shots to the back" are well taken and understood by a great many here.

---Hmmmm----

Tangential question spawned from your quote: "Unless someone can prove some pre-meditation, such as engineering the situation to make it happen, then this defender cannot be convicted of anything in Tennessee."

Bear with me and see if we can get a little more mileage out of this example. Some of our contributors to this thread have engaged in a little armchair vigilantism to the effect that folks aught to get together with their shotguns and go paint gang tags. Almost a "hunting over bait" kind of thing.

Now how would TN law be likely to treat the case? Engaging in an activity know to encourage violent reaction. Doing so while arguably(?) lying in ambush of whomever would take offense to the "cleanup" act. Would that be "engineering the situation to make it happen?"

What if it wasn't so clear cut? What if the painter in the original story is nutty enough to roll the dice again next week, and the week after? How tolerant will (can?) TN be about this?

In your opinion, of course.
 
The consensus among the best minds on the subject that I know of is that you do not want armchair gunfighters on your civil jury any more than you want anti-gunners. The anti-gunners will be against you on principle in a shooting case. The armchair gunfighters (of which I am one) are likely to hold you to an unreasonably high standard of conduct, because of what they think they could or would do in a given situation. I can tell you that I've been lucky enough to know many exceptional people in and out of law enforcement who might disagree with, but would never condemn the defender here.
 
I can tell you that I've been lucky enough to know many exceptional people in and out of law enforcement who might disagree with, but would never condemn the defender here.
Well, since joining THR yesterday, you now know quite a few more.
 
Probably seems alien to most people, but gangs really are not a joke. Lots of gangs are jokes, but there are some that deal with millions of dollars and that is not a game. There are some hardcore felons out there, that constantly keep a piece on them because some young buck could come up put a cap in his ass and get two stripes on his arm. I dont like the idea of gangs putting their signs up in a neigboorhood but before i painted over any of them i'd ask myself, "Was I here before the gangs, or did i move in after" If i was there before them, i could see moral justification for painting over it. If someone comes in after the gangs were there, they're just begging to get shot at by painting over their signs. I respect the bravity of doing that but at the same time i recognize its complete stupidity. He could have gotten himself killed, there is no justice for you when you're dead. The world won't care how brave you were 10 minutes after the news story airs, and nothing is going to change in the hood by you getting yourself shot. Don't be a retard.

The drug war will continue to make gangs a propserous, unstoppable force, there's nothing any amount of law abiding good citizens can do to stop it with force. Change the laws, that will make real progress. Dont get yourself killed. Gangs will come after your loved ones too if you piss them off to that point, dont put other peoples lives in jeapordy. Its important that the smart people actually use their brains before depending on their conceal carry permits to save them in every situation. Thats' some naive thinking. Gangs could not care less if you have a legal permit to carry a pistol. They never will care.

A carry permit does not make you invincible.
 
Sam,
If you look to past cases, such as those involving the KKK, the rule appears to be that incitement to riot is no excuse for riot.

You could argue that by painting over the gang grafitti and going armed that the painter engineered the situation, but that is going to be a very tough bar to get over.

Theoretically, it is not insurmountable. As a practical matter you would almost have to have a written manifesto from the painter saying, "On this day, I will do this to create this situation". Even then, you would have to show some harm to someone else besides the gangsters to have a charge against your painter. Likely, only reckless endangerment for engineering a situation where someone else can get hurt.
 
theres also the fact that almost half of these gangsters are police informants who will be protected from any charges because of what they do. Think about it.
 
Studies have shown that it is much harder to stop an activity while under stress than while calm. So, while the defender may have initiated his action while under imminent threat, at the immediate passing of the threat he will likely be unable to stop pulling the trigger until seconds after the threat has objectively passed. Thats often why newsapapers scream "Cop executes suspect!", when a suspect is shot in the back. The reality is that gunfights are messy affairs that strain the perception and reflexes of all involved. For more on that I would recommend the following link...

That's perfectly sensible and consistent. Once the engagement begins there is some time that passes before it ends (sounds silly it's so obvious), but there is some lag between the time the threat ends and the end of the threat registers. When engaging a moving target like a car with a shooter it is easy to understand that some of the rounds may impact the side of the vehicle and then the rear of the vehicle before the defender clearly registers that the car is in a position to both shield the attacker and defender from each other. At that point, count from one to 10 very quickly, it is possible to have fired several rounds that strike both the side and rear of the vehicle using the explanation given above.

That's a solid explanation of how there could be holes in the rear of the car without the defender having fired willfully and knowingly at a "fleeing" vehicle. Add close proximity to the fence from the vehicle and the reasonable assumption that the car was accelerating away once the shooting started I can understand the presence those holes in the rear of the car. Thanks for the leading the discussion to this point of understanding Malcomhawk.

OTOH, whether a defender should or should not shoot at a moving car on the street in a neighborhood is a separate issue from whether there's any issue about the holes in the rear of the vehicle. I have seen students in class so narrowly focus on the gun in the "attacker's" hand in a scenario that all their simunition rounds hit either the gun, gun hand or within a few inches of the gun. I have also seen them miss an "attacker" (me in this case) completely from 8 feet away with half a dozen rounds (this was a competitive shooter and local professional). Having seen both ends of the spectrum, and some of the in-between, I'm not surprised by laser-like accuracy or complete misses when defenders are firing under stress.

That's the heavy responsibility that the posturing vigilantism of some our posters need to understand.
 
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Cube,

I have to disagree with you. Gangs can be defeated. Communities get more of what they are willing to accept. When good people give up the fight, gangs win. I can tell you that places where gang grafitti is allowed to remain, will get more gang activity and bolder gang members. It is almost mathematical the way it works. The longer the sign is up the more likely the gang will grow and prosper.

But, communities with strict vandalism and grafitti laws and citizens who support them can keep gang activity suppressed and weak. In this case, perception is reality.

Gangs only operate in their comfort zone. They need a support structure, usually family members or friends who do not actively participate in criminal activity, but are willing to overlook obvious signs of it. They also need people to ignore the seriousness of growing gang activity.

Unfortunately, Memphis may be a lost cause. Gangs are so comfortable there that even some in law enforcement have given up the fight and merely work at accommodation. When you stop going for the win and only worry about "keeping the lid on" you've already lost.
 
I dont like the idea of gangs putting their signs up in a neigboorhood but before i painted over any of them i'd ask myself, "Was I here before the gangs, or did i move in after" If i was there before them, i could see moral justification for painting over it. If someone comes in after the gangs were there, they're just begging to get shot at by painting over their signs. I respect the bravity of doing that but at the same time i recognize its complete stupidity. He could have gotten himself killed, there is no justice for you when you're dead. The world won't care how brave you were 10 minutes after the news story airs, and nothing is going to change in the hood by you getting yourself shot. Don't be a retard.

Cubesmoothie,

In the second link in the OP you will see that these gang members came into his neighborhood and got violent with some other innocent people then proceeded to paint the place up. He was there first.

It's the so-called FAM gang.. They sprayed up all my neighbors garages and fences. They came from wherever they hang and came to my neighborhood and beat up sisters, brothers, moms, and even little kids. I got fed up with it and decided ask the neighbors would they mind if I painted their fences and garages free of cost. I had done one garage and was painting a fence when they fired upon us. And remember this was on a Sunday of all days.
 
HSO,

I agree, and I've personally worked a case where a revolver was torn apart and the shooter lost a finger because his opponent was likely focusing on the gun.

That was an odd case. No good guys involved. Mutual combat by two sets of thugs. One group after the gunfight sped down a dead end street to get to a dumpster, not to dump their guns but to throw away some open beer bottles in their car. I think their thinking process went something like...

I'll do 5 to 10 for attempted murder, but I ain't going down for no "Open Container Violation".
 
Well, I sent Brandon a PM over at TGO so maybe he'll pop over here, maybe he won't. Like I said, he is discussing it publicly there. There's no real difference between there and here as far as exposure is concerned.

I assume he's not facing any charges and is free to discuss it as he pleases. Hopefully that's the case, because we could definitely get some good insight as to how these things play out should he chose to join the thread. It's pretty rare to get a first person account on these situations.

Either way, hopefully he'll check out THR. I think were pretty good peoples around here. :D
 
I have to disagree with you. Gangs can be defeated. Communities get more of what they are willing to accept. When good people give up the fight, gangs win. I can tell you that places where gang grafitti is allowed to remain, will get more gang activity and bolder gang members. It is almost mathematical the way it works. The longer the sign is up the more likely the gang will grow and prosper.

I agree and disagree to a point. It really depends on the depth of said gang. Similar to a tree, gangs do have heirarchys. Most gangs wont be affected at all by a normal non-affiliated person painting over their signs. It wont dent the gang at all, not in their firepower, cash disposal, drug inventory, it wont do anything. Also keep in mind, they have nothing to lose by shooting someone who does paint over their signs. Even if the shootees are killed, it wont affect the way the gang works. They have money to procure, and they'll do it. There is no chance in hell they will get a good enough job to pay their sustenance and luxuries, and they dont care if we disagree with their lifestyle. Their family members get shot all the time, they dont care.


But, communities with strict vandalism and grafitti laws and citizens who support them can keep gang activity suppressed and weak. In this case, perception is reality.

I do not agree. Communities with strict vandalism/graffiti laws, are communities that have no severe vandalism or graffiti. We could be in a complete state of martial law right now, and gangs will still vandalize and spray graffiti, and there'd be no way to ever stop them. Not a single way, aside from nuclear air bursts can stop this from happening. The only places it doesnt happen, are places not inhabited by gangs. Once gangs inhabit an area, they can not be stopped by police or citizens. It never happens. It's a continually growing problem that hasnt been halted at all, let alone eradicated anywhere.

Gangs only operate in their comfort zone. They need a support structure, usually family members or friends who do not actively participate in criminal activity, but are willing to overlook obvious signs of it. They also need people to ignore the seriousness of growing gang activity.

IMO, this makes sense. For the most part.

Unfortunately, Memphis may be a lost cause. Gangs are so comfortable there that even some in law enforcement have given up the fight and merely work at accommodation. When you stop going for the win and only worry about "keeping the lid on" you've already lost.

The gangs arent going to win, they are not trying to win anything except territory and profit that other gangs posess. The real honchos of the gangs, are not fighting normal citizens like ourselves. The wannabes, will shoot out of their car windows for silly things such as spray paint. The heierarchy does play a major part in the lower wannabe gangs and everything inbetween, its a big tree of criminal black market efforts. Climb to a higher branch, more profit can be made.

There's absolutely no way to stop gang activity from becoming progressively worse without changing drug laws. This is a proven fact. Without this change, expect the mexican cartels to continuously influence more profit and more blood into the american gang market. It will certainly get worse and there's nothing any of us can do to stop it aside from changing laws. Changing the laws, will reverse the very incentive of these gangs and sever the root of the problem.
 
I have seen several people point out that the victim shooter in this situation could be held liable if he would have hit anybody other than the shooter in the vehicle or an innocent bystander outside.

While it is true that we are responsible for the rounds that we fire and the fundamental rules of firearms safety still apply in a gunfight, let me attempt to shed some light on a procedure of law that may not be apparent to some of you. I have testified as an expert witness in more than one case involving similar situations, only in which an "innocent" bystander or property was actually hurt/damaged by the victim's shots.

If a person shoots at an attacker in self defense but inadvertantly strikes an uninvolved friend of the attacker or even an innocent bystander, it can be shown by a mere preponderence of the evidence (more than 50%) that but for the actions of the attacker, the 3rd party would not have been injured. By that argument, it is the original attacker, and not the defender, that is responsible for the injuries sustained to the 3rd party, regardless of whether it was the attacker's shots or the victim's shots that inflicted the injury.

The accepted reasoning that the courts must consider is whether or not the injury would have occured if the victim had not been forced into action. Arguably, the victim would not be shooting their weapon if that action had not been preceded by a criminal attack. Therefore, the attacker becomes responsible for the outcome, not the defender.

A victim cannot be held criminally liable for actions that were taken in defense of themselves and in many cases, the defense of others. Don't get me wrong, the courts have tried (and probably succeeded) more than once but that is where I (or someone like me) should be called in.

The distinction in whether the victim is held liable for their rounds striking someone other than the intended target are in relation to the "reasonableness" of their actions and/or whether they acted in a "reckless" manner. Remember, while the courts (or victim attorney) only have to show by a preponderence of the evidence (more than 50%) that the attacker is responsible for the injury of the 3rd party they would have to show that the victim's actions were reckless or unreasonable "beyond a reasonable doubt" in order to hold them liable, and that is a much larger burden of proof.

If the actions of the victim were not "reckless" or "unreasonable," than the original attacker is responsible for any tertiary damages, including the death of an innocent from a bullet fired by the victim defender. The attacker could actually be charged with manslaughter even though the victim fired the fatal round. Difficult to follow, I know, but it makes sense if you think about it.

I do not have enough information to make a judgment call about this particular situation, and in any event I would not want the personal burden of a round I fired striking an innocent regardless of who was criminally/civilly found to be liable.

What I can say is this. Time and time again it has been found reasonable to return fire at the "general occupants" of a vehicle from which you received fire. I put "general occupants" in quotes because this is the exact term that was a point of contention in a case I reviewed and those were the investigating detective's words used in the report. The outcome was this. While they may later be found to have not been involved, it is reasonable for the victim to assume that all of the occupants of the vehicle either knew what was about to occur (the drive-by), participated in the event, or were willingly present non-actors. Otherwise, unless being held against their will (which the victim would have no reason or responsibility to assume) they would not be in the vehicle. The victim defender incurred no criminal liability.

Further, just because an attacker has stopped firing (or their vehicle passed) does not mean you must stop firing at the threat that was present 1/2 second ago. Don't get me wrong, I understand the philosophy of "imminent danger" but it has also been consistenly ruled that the danger is "continually present" beyond the immediate shots fired. No, that does not mean you can chase them down and continually fire at them or go get them later. However, this concept has application in an instance such as a police officer walking up to a car, getting shot at, but not being able to return fire until he draws his weapon, by which time the vehicle is already driving away. The officer is still justified in firing at the fleeing vehicle due to the "continually present" nature of the aggression.

The same is true for an armed robbery. A store clerk, having been robbed at gunpoint, could conceivably chase the suspect out of the store and shoot the robber as they tried to get into the vehicle. The "imminent" threat is over but the incident has not yet concluded.

Having said all of this, please don't think that I endorse such actions. I am simply pointing out some rules of law/procedures.

One thing I do find interesting is that in almost every case that comes up on here the same people say, "He wasn't justified.... it wasn't clear enough.... the target was moving..... there could be bystanders.... he can't guarantee a perfect hit...." and so on. Let me tell you something folks, there is no such thing as a perfect shooting but I hope that this won't prevent you from taking appropriate action when the situation calls for it.

If you will only present and apply deadly force when the target is stationary, there are no innocents around, the light is perfect, the background is solid, and you are taking incoming rounds (because by some of your arguments if you're not the threat is over), leave your gun in the safe and only take it out when you go to the range. You will never have an opportunity to use it on the streets.

Alright, that was long enough. Let the flames begin. Just understand, I get paid to testify on the very basis of what I have just explained.

P.S. Yes, I know that laws vary greatly from state to state. I take that into account when I testify on such matters but I don't have to here so this is not legal advice. Your local laws take precedent.
 
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