An interesting news story from TN

[bigwheelsbigstraps]

That guy you're talking about

How are u all? To all that are wondering yes I do have my HCP. And to all that would not have done what I did in MY situation.. Go take your guns back to the store because u probably won't use them when it's time.. And no I didn't have to serve any time or get "detained"(Stop watching so much tv..). No I am not being charged with any crime.. As a matter of fact the police told me to watch my back and that I know the law "Defend yourself and others". If any of u are from Memphis u know we have a growing problem with a gang called the FAM. The police are dealing with them as best they can but without community participation they just spread like a virus. I for one am not afraid as I have lived and been around gangs my whole life. I know that if u stand up to a bully and show that they have met their match u rarely have to deal with them again. And as far as being afraid of retribution, I am well aware of what they "might" do. But I'm also aware of what I'm GOING to do if I fear for my life again. All questions are welcome but please be aware that if u do not like what I did keep your opinion to yourself because your questions probably will not be answered. Thanks.

 

[Crusader103]

Big Wheels,

First of all, good job. Read my post right before yours.

Here's the deal. The High Road is a very good group of people, generally. We like to Monday morning quarterback incidents as they arise on here or in the news. We do not know the details of the incident but we do like to use them to further our own understanding as we "what if" what we might do.

Many times, in fact most times, we are not privy to the details but that doesn't mean we can't put them to good use. In fact, we can be all backwards about what actually happened but the discussion is worth it's weight in gold for the day that we may be faced with a situation and are tested the way you have been.

If the police came, investigated, and you were absolved of any wrongdoing than that is good enough for me. If the officers on scene were satisfied than that is proof enough that you did the right thing, in the right way, for the right reasons. For that, you are to be commended.

Don't take offense if we continue to discuss. You have to think of it more in general terms of what could happen in any circumstance than in terms of it applying to your incident directly.

Good Job!

 

[hso]

Brandon,

Congratulations for having survived a shooting.

Was there any warning or did the punks just drive up and start shooting after their first pass?

Were you the only one to return fire or were your friends also armed and returned fire?

How close were you to the vehicle from the beginning to the end of the shooting and how many rounds were you able to fire?

In Knoxville you would have probably not been charged nor detained for a simple self defense shooting where no one was injured. You may not have even had your handgun taken for evidence under the circumstances.

While most are interested in the particulars of what transpired the greater good is the general lessons learned and the broader discussion of the incident and implications of it.

Take a look at the code of conduct here at THR. We take it very seriously and if you want the opportunity to put conjecture to rest please take it seriously also. Don't take personal offense at the questions in people's minds of what up until you posted was a remote and imperfectly described set of events.

 

[zxcvbob]

"The police are dealing with them as best they can but without community participation they just spread like a virus. I for one am not afraid as I have lived and been around gangs my whole life. I know that if u stand up to a bully and show that they have met their match u rarely have to deal with them again."

**applause**

Just watch your back for a while.

 

[ShadyScott999]

The first rule of a gunfight, not to be confused with any rule of gun safety, is to have a gun. The second rule is to SURVIVE said gunfight. Give me a break guys..

1. Immediate
2. Violent
3. Overwhelming
4. Savage

The four rules of SURVIVING according to Scott.

You have to keep in mind, if "they" hadn't rolled the ball, "we" wouldn't be working on them. These self defense scenarios SHOULD have been played out in your head long before they happen. Will they happen the way you planned, probably not. Deal with what ya got. You can quote me on that.

Big Wheels; Way to deal with what ya got! Most of the people who will talk trash to you, don't have the stones to do what you have already done.

 

[bigwheelsbigstraps]

We were aware of the potential dangers of what might happen.. But where I'm from if u back down from something it usually gets worse. To those that are telling me to be careful.. Thank you for your concern. I am well aware of the dangers of what I'm doing but I care more about the little kids being able to play outside without worrying about about being scared. You should see the reaction of my community. I am getting nods of approval from people I didn't even know. People are actually walking around the neighborhood again like they are supposed to.

 

[ShadyScott999]

Big Wheels,
That is how it should be. Take IT back.

S

 

[Malcomhawk]

Brandon,

When I said you would be detained, I didn't say you would be arrested. Though it can amount to the same thing sometimes. If you gave a statement to the police then whether you knew it or not, you were being detained. The level of force used to do so is usually about the same as for a traffic stop, especially for a cooperating witness. Did you read my earlier posts on the subject? I know Memphis PD can be pretty free-wheeling sometimes, but I can't imagine them not doing a thorough investigation regardless of how righteous the shoot appeared to be.

 

[Malcomhawk]

With that said, I'm on your side. I respect and admire those who are inclined to take action, whether it is painting over the gangs markers or returning fire when threatened.

Don't be discouraged if the media decides to do a "poor victim of his environment" story on the guy who attacked you.

 

[hso]

People are actually walking around the neighborhood again like they are supposed to.

Outstanding. Make sure to rally the community so that you're not the only one doing something to make things better. No one wants to see you martyred.

 

[Sam1911]

Hi Brandon,

Good to see you here. As the others have said, we're all thankful that you survived and haven't suffered undue legal hardship over this incident.

I understand your joking about "taking your guns back to the store" but believe me we have more concern here that all apply the proper gravity to the use of lethal force than we have worries that folks won't shoot when/if that moment comes. We never seem to have any shortage of folks who are (or claim to be) MORE than ready to pull a trigger. Our efforts in dissecting and analyzing actual events tend towards the exercise of caution as the the number one goal of self-defense is to survive and the most successful means of survival is avoidance of getting into a gun fight to begin with.

It is a rare opportunity to get to discuss & dissect with an actual shooting survivor. Getting the chance to ask for clarification and further insights into an actual event will only make our studies and discussions more informed and applicable. As stated previously, you'll probably find a lot of questions, a few challanges, and perhaps some disagreement -- but no condemnation.

Glad to have you as part of our community!

 

[Kleanbore]

Good to see you here. As the others have said, we're all thankful that you survived and haven't suffered undue legal hardship over this incident.

Second that!

 

[bigwheelsbigstraps]

And I can understand how u hear a lot of people say they can't wait till they use their weapon ( I call em Computer Cowboys). Well let me put your minds at ease. I'm more of a middle ground guy when it comes to it. I put on my gun everyday just like my wallet and hope that's the one tool I won't have to use today. But I am also realistic.. I do live in Memphis where people get robbed like people go to the store. And I know we all avoid dumb situations where we would have to use our weapons, but I do have a question for you guys.. If it were your neighborhood where your kids play at would you want that kind of nonsense there? If they had YOUR kids afraid to get off school buses... I just feel like after u start putting guns in your hands u stop being someone I can talk to (kid, teen) and try to stear u in a different direction and become a man, thug, robber or whatever else. That's when u will see the wrong end of my gun. Leave me alone and I leave u alone. It's that simple.

 

[Sam1911]

I put on my gun everyday just like my wallet and hope that's the one tool I won't have to use today. But I am also realistic.

That's exactly the attitude we embrace here. Hope and pray that you'll never have to use your sidearm, but train and mentally prepare as though trouble could come to you at any time.

And I know we all avoid dumb situations where we would have to use our weapons,

Absoultely!

but I do have a question for you guys.. If it were your neighborhood where your kids play at would you want that kind of nonsense there? If they had YOUR kids afraid to get off school buses...

Sorry, just a little unsure of your meaning. No one wants criminals perpetrating crimes in their neighborhood, of course but we don't take up arms to go "clean up our streets" either of course! (That's pretty funny in that you were armed while -- LITERALLY -- "cleaning up your street" but hopefully in the more figurative sense of the phrase! LOL!)

I just feel like after u start putting guns in your hands u stop being someone I can talk to (kid, teen) and try to stear u in a different direction and become a man, thug, robber or whatever else.

Again, I'm a little confused about your meaning. After who puts a gun in their hand? Me? A "kid, teen"? A man? You can't talk to whom? I don't get your drift.

That's when u will see the wrong end of my gun. Leave me alone and I leave u alone. It's that simple.

That's about the size of it. We don't seek out violence, but if violence goes out of its way to find us, we train and prepare to meet it.

Sounds like your community is supporting you and the local authorities have reviewed the incident and not found fault -- so major congratulations there!

Have you given any thought to how to aviod trouble like this in the future -- obviously without giving up on your neighborhood clean-up efforts?

 

[ForumSurfer]

First of all, I applaud your efforts. Not many men or women would stand up and do that these days. You not only thought of a way to clean up your neighborhood and send a message of no tolerance, you followed through with it. Awesome.

It is sad that you were shot at in the process and I for one will not condemn your actions. I wasn't there. I have a cousin who lives in Memphis. He's told me many times about how bad some of the neighborhoods are and how quickly a middle class neighborhood can deteriorate if no one puts up a resistance. There are lots of good people and good neighborhoods, but it is up to the citizens to keep them that way.

If they had YOUR kids afraid to get off school buses...

Take this comment from me with a grain of salt: That does not change any legal issues at all. We still have the same consequences for the same actions.

Having said that, when it is OUR children...it does in fact change things. If my child came home after getting a gang beating by a gang trying to send a signal, I couldn't guarantee you what my reaction would be. My chest tightens just to think about it. You sir, did the right thing. You sent a message back to the gang. You took a stand. You set out to send a message, but not by show of force. By painting over their signs you sent a message that it was your neighborhood and you won't stand for it. It is unfortunate that you were involved in a shooting in the process. Best of luck to you.

 

[Geno]

What we have here is a failure to plan in advance. Instead of paint brushes, they should have been armed with paintball guns. In such a way, they could have painted the wall, and "marked" the perps for the popo.

Geno

 

[hso]

Brandon and his two friends have done the hard part, starting to do something to help fix the neighborhood. Now it's up to the community to do the rest.

Brandon can help with that by organizing the neighborhood into a graffiti painting party so that everyone's involved and no one group of punks gets the idea that they can get away with trying to intimidate or harm one person.

Close the street and turn it into a block party. That will deny them access.

Call the police and have them send a car by while painting over the graffiti. That will provide security.

It's a strength in numbers approach.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Call the police and have them send a car by while painting over the graffiti. That will provide security.

Very good advice.

Many youth programs across the country do this, but not nearly enough. When you organize an event in which you ask people to volunteer to cover up a gang's turf tags, you are consequently asking for trouble. That's not a bad thing, you just need to be prepared for what consequence your actions could incur. Calling the local authorities and notifying them of your intentions would be a good 1st step. They may advise you to avoid doing it during certain hours. Choosing to protect yourself as a last resort backup plan is also an important step.

 

[roger505]

Gun fights

Being a former SO, a firearms instructor and working the Mexican border, I have been in a few gun fights and reviewed many more. While I am not, by any means, an expert, I do feel that I do have a small amount of insight. While there may be similarities, every fight is, and will be, different. Also you will have, at best, seconds to respond and you will normally be running on habit and instinct. What ever works, works and if you walk away, you did it right, no mater what. If you don't, your dead, and you may be anyway.

You study and practice to gain as much experience as possible, but it is never enough and never quite fits. In general, as they are light armorer, you do not want to fire on a car. However, if you are taking fire from one you do want to shoot back, if nothing else, it may through his aim off.

This man did what he had too, and walked away. there for, if not perfect, IT WORKED. You were not there, do not criticize.

Also, have two guns, just alike, hide one. The police may take the one you use into evidence and now is not the time to be unarmed.

 

[Kleanbore]

...if you are taking fire from one you do want to shoot back, if nothing else, it may through his aim off.

Can't disagree. I think most of the comments above were centered on the tense of the verb ("had been" vs. "are").

This man did what he had too, and walked away. there for, if not perfect, IT WORKED.

Yep, thankfully. Might even have a deterrent effect on others, and maybe even help with RKBA in some circles.

You were not there, do not criticize.

Nothing bad happened, but had things gone south, so to speak, neither the investigators, the charging authority, prosecutors, plaintiffs' attorneys, nor jurors would have been there either. Think that would have muzzled them?

There's nothing wrong with offering opinions and qualified advice about real or hypothetical situations.

The actor in this case turns out to be licensed, but we've seen cases on this board that resulted in convictions apparently because shooters either were not aware of the laws pertaining to the use of deadly force or because they exercised bad judgment or both. Best to help each other try to avoid that fate, I think.

 

[hso]

You were not there, do not criticize.

There's difference between criticizing and critiquing and discussing the pros and cons of specific tactics. It's important to learn from the experience of others and the only way to do that is analyze and discuss the events.

 

[roger505]

Yes, this is what I mean. Some times, not being a writer, I do not make my self clear. By all means analyze.

Yes, I have seen people wrongly convicted by corrupt prosecutors and dumb juries. Nothing is certain.

 

[ishida]

Great to know that so many people think that I would be better served running from every threat than fighting back, regardless of legality.

 

[c919]

Great to know that so many people think that I would be better served running from every threat than fighting back, regardless of legality.

Well that's a silly generalization. There is absolutely nothing in this thread stating or implying that you should tuck tail and run from every threat. We are simply evaluating a scenario.

In this day and age, we really have to be able to know when we can or can't shoot. And yes, there are times when there is a clear and present threat that you simply cannot use deadly force upon without going to jail. I think we are all pretty unanimous on that it's really lame, but it's true. I totally agree with "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six", but sometimes you just aren't in the clear to go popping off rounds. Just to be clear, none of this is specifically in reference to Brandon's situation, but merely a response to the above posting.

 

[bigwheelsbigstraps]

"I just feel like after u start putting guns in your hands u stop being someone I can talk to (kid, teen) and try to stear u in a different direction and become a man, thug, robber or whatever else. That's when u will see the wrong end of my gun. Leave me alone and I leave u alone. It's that simple."

I was referring to the "kids" who shot at me. I would much rather talk to them and try to get them into some things to occupy their time rather than doing what they are doing. They quit being "kids" when they put the guns in their hands.
@ HSO- There was no warning other than them coming by the second time and shooting. We had seen a lot of cars coming by so that was nothing out of the ordinary. But when this car came back through and slowed down my partner took notice. Luckily he did or I might not be typing this right now.
And to all of you guys... I know I pissed them off. The police told me they were "hunting" that day. And as of now, they supposedly have a "hit" out on me. The police told me this. But as you all know in TN we now can ride with rifles and/or shotguns in our vehicle as long as there is no round chambered. I don't want any trouble, but I am well prepared should trouble come my way. I'm from a family of marines and hunters.. I would much rather sit back and enjoy life, go to work, and wait for my son to be born but now i have to deal with this nonsense. But it is what it is. I will keep living my life as I do now. I have fear for no man. Do not take that as me saying that I don't think I can be shot but I am very aware of my surroundings and I don't hesitate if i feel like you are a threat to my family or myself. Anyone happen to know where I can get a vest from? It's not like I've ever even thought about owning one but I am now..