AR15 has pretty bad accuracy?

[MistWolf]

HEAT. When cutting metal with a cutoff wheel you create heat. The faster you cut the more heat you create. I know that barrels get hot when you shoot but not in just one spot.

C'mon, Gunny! You know better than that. There's no way someone is going to generate enough heat cutting an FSB to damage the barrel, even if it is just in one place.

Why not cut down the FSB instead of replacing it with another gas block? The FSB is already located properly and pinned securely and it's as tough or tougher than any replacement.

 

[Skylerbone]

I don’t know the particulars of your scope but running the calculations on a 1” tube with 40mm objective shows a maximum parallax error of .591” at 25 yards if parallax is fixed at 100 yards and .656” if fixed parallax is set at 150 yards.

I would surmise that if you’ve qualified before and done as well as you state that you have some familiarity with a rifle and extreme changes in placement aren’t likely the cause of error. Again, this is my assumption, but I would rule parallax error out in this case.

With the fsb my thought was that if it were unsupported it may have twisted a bit, stressing the barrel. Light swipes with a grinding wheel probably wouldn’t cause such an affect but bearing down to hog through it might.

I have seen ammo issues cause 8-10” spreads at 100 yards in 2 otherwise MOA rifles. The ammo in question was Superformance and it was loaded too hot for either one of them to like (Hornady actually dialed it back not long after). Chasing a zero resulted in scope rings loosening up which took the shots completely off paper, or 18”+ at 100.

Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt I would say there is probably something wrong with the upper.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

C'mon, Gunny! You know better than that. There's no way someone is going to generate enough heat cutting an FSB to damage the barrel, even if it is just in one place.

Why not cut down the FSB instead of replacing it with another gas block? The FSB is already located properly and pinned securely and it's as tough or tougher than any replacement.

I watched a video of a guy cutting a FSB with a grinder. He was in such a hurry that he had glowing red metal. There are right ways to do things and then there are others.

 

[illinoisburt]

Btw - even though the gas block is altered, it won't change the warranty on the barrel or upper receiver. If you camt find the issue, please call PSA. We have had good interecations with them in the past. Suspect they will make it right if you give them a chance.

 

[Cemetery21]

One more remote possibility - very remote. Back in the 80s, I bought a new varmint rifle in 22 centerfire. I did a normal new gun cleaning and started sight-in. I was very disappointed - don't remember the 100 yard group size, but it was BAD. But, I did notice some oblong holes indicating bullets were not stabilized. I went back and took a good look at the barrel and it seemed like there were places where there were no grooves. So, I scrubbed the heck out of the barrel - maybe even used an oversized brush. Grooves cleaned up - apparently had something packed hard in there. The rifle then shot great and served me several years after that.
Again - remote chance, but it did happen once upon a time (in a land not so far away).

That rifle would have gone back to the mother ship if it hadn't straightened up.

 

[bfoosh006]

If you can't find anything obviously wrong with it.. send it back to PSA, asking for a replacement.

 

[748]

Not likely heat from cutting.
I used a 1.5mm thick cutoff wheel, didn't even discolor the exposed steel. Plus it was about 20F that day and the wind was blowing.

Normally when I set scope up I will check scope parallax. But I didn't get to that far. I will intentionally lean to the left and right and shoot off a few rounds, on any other 4 power scope at 25 yards it's barely noticeable.

 

[748]

One more remote possibility - very remote. Back in the 80s, I bought a new varmint rifle in 22 centerfire. I did a normal new gun cleaning and started sight-in. I was very disappointed - don't remember the 100 yard group size, but it was BAD. But, I did notice some oblong holes indicating bullets were not stabilized. I went back and took a good look at the barrel and it seemed like there were places where there were no grooves. So, I scrubbed the heck out of the barrel - maybe even used an oversized brush. Grooves cleaned up - apparently had something packed hard in there. The rifle then shot great and served me several years after that.
Again - remote chance, but it did happen once upon a time (in a land not so far away).

That rifle would have gone back to the mother ship if it hadn't straightened up.

I will try and ram a 243 brush through there. The bore looks normal. But good idea.

 

[armoredman]

My Bear Creek Arsenal barrel shoots much better than that, good luck!

 

[GunnyUSMC]

My Bear Creek Arsenal barrel shoots much better than that, good luck!

I’ve seen bad barrels from a few different places. I have barrels from several different companies like, Bear Creek, Anderson, Davidson Defence, Black Hole Weaponry, PSA, FN, X Xetream, just to name a few. And I’ve built a few hundred ARs over the last few years. I have had a few builds that didn’t shoot great at first due to small issues that were easy to correct. I only had one barrel that I had to have replaced due to a bad chamber.
Your best option is to eliminate some of the factors that could be causing the problem. But I would not do anything to alter the barrel until you contact PSA.
First I would inspect the barrel to see if the crown was good and the the bore didn’t have obvious defects. I have seen a new rifle, from Marlin, that had no rifling. Strange things happen. Leave the muzzle break off when you go back to the range. Check scope and mounts and try a few different brands of ammo and different weights.
Check the BCG And the inside of the upper for any excessive wear.
Shooting is fun, but shooting a gun that shoots like c#@p is not.
I wish you the best of luck.

 

[MistWolf]

I watched a video of a guy cutting a FSB with a grinder. He was in such a hurry that he had glowing red metal. There are right ways to do things and then there are others.

Just goes to show, Idiots are gonna Idiot!

 

[coloradokevin]

First, make sure you have a decent optic, mounted properly, and that you're shooting from a proper position or rest. Then, stop playing at 25 yards and give it a real test at 100 yards. Try a few different types of ammo, and report back with your results. A legitimate 4" group at 25 yards isn't acceptable, but I feel there's something else going on here in all likelihood.

I've had a couple of the PSA kits. The first one I bought didn't compare accuracy wise with the more expensive gun I carry for work (on that has a cold hammer forged barrel). But, I didn't really expect an all-in $325 AR-15 to compare to a $1,200 one. Nevertheless, I found that the first 100 rounds were the worst for this rifle, and it smoothed out after that. I'm shooting it open sights, so I can't claim I'm shooting my best groups with it. But, it now seems comparable to most off-the-shelf standard AR-15's like you'd buy from S&W, Bushmaster, etc.

For the money I paid it does its job just fine: which is to serve as a truck/camping gun I don't mind beating around a bit.

 

[Texas10mm]

The optic is a leopold cqt mark 4.

First, make sure you have a decent optic, mounted properly, and that you're shooting from a proper position or rest. Then, stop playing at 25 yards and give it a real test at 100 yards. Try a few different types of ammo, and report back with your results. A legitimate 4" group at 25 yards isn't acceptable, but I feel there's something else going on here in all likelihood.

I've had a couple of the PSA kits. The first one I bought didn't compare accuracy wise with the more expensive gun I carry for work (on that has a cold hammer forged barrel). But, I didn't really expect an all-in $325 AR-15 to compare to a $1,200 one. Nevertheless, I found that the first 100 rounds were the worst for this rifle, and it smoothed out after that. I'm shooting it open sights, so I can't claim I'm shooting my best groups with it. But, it now seems comparable to most off-the-shelf standard AR-15's like you'd buy from S&W, Bushmaster, etc.

For the money I paid it does its job just fine: which is to serve as a truck/camping gun I don't mind beating around a bit.

A $1000 optic isn't good enough? Many ranges require that you sight in on the 25 yard range before you can go to the longer ranges.

 

[coloradokevin]

A $1000 optic isn't good enough? Many ranges require that you sight in on the 25 yard range before you can go to the longer ranges.

I missed the part about the optic he was using. My comment was more generalized advice for the problem. While I’m not personally fond of Leupold stuff these days, and think they’re overpriced for what they offer, it should definitely work from this purpose... assuming it is properly mounted and torqued.

I’ve shot at probably 30+ rifle ranges in my life, and none of them have had a 25 yard rule like the one you mentioned. But, that aside, there’s absolutely no point in estimating your groups at 100 yards... put a target out there and see what happens!

This is most likely an issue driven by the trigger puller or the scope mount, because that accuracy is too terrible to imagine it’s from the barrel if nothing obvious is wrong. My dumpy old SKS can shoot a heck of a lot better than that, and it was never an accurate gun.

 

[armoredman]

I’ve seen bad barrels from a few different places. I have barrels from several different companies like, Bear Creek, Anderson, Davidson Defence, Black Hole Weaponry, PSA, FN, X Xetream, just to name a few. And I’ve built a few hundred ARs over the last few years. I have had a few builds that didn’t shoot great at first due to small issues that were easy to correct. I only had one barrel that I had to have replaced due to a bad chamber.
Your best option is to eliminate some of the factors that could be causing the problem. But I would not do anything to alter the barrel until you contact PSA.
First I would inspect the barrel to see if the crown was good and the the bore didn’t have obvious defects. I have seen a new rifle, from Marlin, that had no rifling. Strange things happen. Leave the muzzle break off when you go back to the range. Check scope and mounts and try a few different brands of ammo and different weights.
Check the BCG And the inside of the upper for any excessive wear.
Shooting is fun, but shooting a gun that shoots like c#@p is not.
I wish you the best of luck.

You got me - I have helped to build one and a half. Actually BARELY helped to build it. Need an upper and BCG for the last one still...

 

[Mn Fats]

"Minute of Crown Vic" never heard that one, I like it. "Minute of Town Car" would be fightin words. I voted cat/bunny. But I've only ever shot iron sights.

 

[748]

The only reason I can't be too butt hurt is this AR has done something the $1,400+ .gov sub 4 moa guns never did.
Mine has yet to malfunction.
So right there it has potential as far as I'm concerned.

So far I have moved the scope and made it a point to tighten it down even more than last time. This is my first pic rail scope.
Recrowned.
SS109 ammo
Still going to try and find heavier ammo.
Scrubbed the heck out of the bore with a ".243" bore brush and a lot of hoopers No. 9 and got out some metal mud.
I did notice I can really feel the gas port when the brush goes over it.

 

[748]

"Minute of Crown Vic" never heard that one, I like it. "Minute of Town Car" would be fightin words. I voted cat/bunny. But I've only ever shot iron sights.

I always shot iron sites too, except for once.

 

[748]

I missed the part about the optic he was using. My comment was more generalized advice for the problem. While I’m not personally fond of Leupold stuff these days, and think they’re overpriced for what they offer, it should definitely work from this purpose... assuming it is properly mounted and torqued.

I’ve shot at probably 30+ rifle ranges in my life, and none of them have had a 25 yard rule like the one you mentioned. But, that aside, there’s absolutely no point in estimating your groups at 100 yards... put a target out there and see what happens!

This is most likely an issue driven by the trigger puller or the scope mount, because that accuracy is too terrible to imagine it’s from the barrel if nothing obvious is wrong. My dumpy old SKS can shoot a heck of a lot better than that, and it was never an accurate gun.

Most if not all the .mil guns had a worse trigger pull.

 

[748]

I’ve seen bad barrels from a few different places. I have barrels from several different companies like, Bear Creek, Anderson, Davidson Defence, Black Hole Weaponry, PSA, FN, X Xetream, just to name a few. And I’ve built a few hundred ARs over the last few years. I have had a few builds that didn’t shoot great at first due to small issues that were easy to correct. I only had one barrel that I had to have replaced due to a bad chamber.
Your best option is to eliminate some of the factors that could be causing the problem. But I would not do anything to alter the barrel until you contact PSA.
First I would inspect the barrel to see if the crown was good and the the bore didn’t have obvious defects. I have seen a new rifle, from Marlin, that had no rifling. Strange things happen. Leave the muzzle break off when you go back to the range. Check scope and mounts and try a few different brands of ammo and different weights.
Check the BCG And the inside of the upper for any excessive wear.
Shooting is fun, but shooting a gun that shoots like c#@p is not.
I wish you the best of luck.

I have a marlin 22mag that has what I believe is a $25 walmart scope, a visibly messed up rifling land and it almost puts bullets through the same hole at 50 yards.

There was a 22mag rifle made by marlin that was a smooth bore for 22 mag shot shells.
It didn't last very long.

I will bring the 3/4 wrench and do some rounds with the A2 cage off.

 

[748]

I missed the part about the optic he was using. My comment was more generalized advice for the problem. While I’m not personally fond of Leupold stuff these days, and think they’re overpriced for what they offer, it should definitely work from this purpose... assuming it is properly mounted and torqued.

I’ve shot at probably 30+ rifle ranges in my life, and none of them have had a 25 yard rule like the one you mentioned. But, that aside, there’s absolutely no point in estimating your groups at 100 yards... put a target out there and see what happens!

This is most likely an issue driven by the trigger puller or the scope mount, because that accuracy is too terrible to imagine it’s from the barrel if nothing obvious is wrong. My dumpy old SKS can shoot a heck of a lot better than that, and it was never an accurate gun.

Good point I probably have not quite put 100 rounds through it.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I was over at Aklys Defence a few months ago testing out the muzzle break that Zack made for my 458 Socom. While I was there Joe was having trouble with an SBR that was getting baffle strikes with one of their test suppressors. It ended up that the bore was off center in the barrel. Strange things happen. He didn’t say who made the barrel.
Good luck at the range.

 

[748]

I took the AR15 out again.
I was only able to locate SS109 at walmart.
The gun shop that normally has 68gr and heavier 5.56 ammo was closed. They are supposed to be open on sundays.

Started out great. The first Salvo all fit on a 1 inch square "tile" of one of those scope site in targets. The first 3 shots were right on top of each other.
But then after about 6 shots the group started to spread out. But not as bad as before. I'm looking at 2 to 2.5 inch spread at 25 yards. I also didn't let it get as hot.
Before they just sprayed like a shot gun pattern as the barrel warmed, this time they started flying higher as the barrel warmed up, instead of all over the place.
I put about 30 rounds through it as I was waiting on cool down mostly.
After a good long cool down the first 3 shots were pretty much back to bwing on top of each other again.

I did not do a control test with the M193 ammo to see if they sprayed like before. I would like to retest with with the M193 style ammo to see if the improvement was all due to switching to SS109.
The M193 ammo never even came close to putting rounds on paper on top of each other.

Again, 100% reliable.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Why "stop playing at 25 yards" if I'm shooting 4 inches at 25 why bother going to 100? That's like missing a target half the time at 100 yards then trying to shoot at 400. There is nothing magical going to make the bullets come back into a better group.

I usually shoot a couple at 25 to make sure I'll be on target them go to 100. Then 200. But if my 2 shots at 25 yards are 4 inches apart..... I'm not wasting ammo. Something isnt right

 

[Bfh_auto]

I took the AR15 out again.
I was only able to locate SS109 at walmart.
The gun shop that normally has 68gr and heavier 5.56 ammo was closed. They are supposed to be open on sundays.

Started out great. The first Salvo all fit on a 1 inch square "tile" of one of those scope site in targets. The first 3 shots were right on top of each other.
But then after about 6 shots the group started to spread out. But not as bad as before. I'm looking at 2 to 2.5 inch spread at 25 yards. I also didn't let it get as hot.
Before they just sprayed like a shot gun pattern as the barrel warmed, this time they started flying higher as the barrel warmed up, instead of all over the place.
I put about 30 rounds through it as I was waiting on cool down mostly.
After a good long cool down the first 3 shots were pretty much back to bwing on top of each other again.

I did not do a control test with the M193 ammo to see if they sprayed like before. I would like to retest with with the M193 style ammo to see if the improvement was all due to switching to SS109.
The M193 ammo never even came close to putting rounds on paper on top of each other.

Again, 100% reliable.

That is close to the accuracy I got with wolf 62 gr. My AR vomits cheap ammo. Try some Fiocchi 77smk ammo and some 223 varmint ammo.