AR15 has pretty bad accuracy?

[crestoncowboy]

2 inches at 25 yards is bad, but could be a couple small things coming together. I can't remember the "spec" colt always stated but I think it was 7moa or so. Which again, its bad but 2 at 25 would be 8 ish moa. Not acceptable to me but not shocking either. The op is double that.

 

[CoalTrain49]

My 1:7 Colt barrel shoots 55gr ok, HATES 62gr, is ok with 69gr and absolutely loves 77gr. The 62gr stuff I shot made me think my rifle was bad. It was just horrible.

I've had the same experience with several rifles. I just keep testing to find the right bullet weight and load. Of course some people would rather their rifles run out of the box with 55 or 62 gr ammo, which isn't an unreasonable expectation. Back in the last century load testing was pretty common, not so much these days with all the cheap ammo available.

 

[CoalTrain49]

2 inches at 25 yards is bad, but could be a couple small things coming together. I can't remember the "spec" colt always stated but I think it was 7moa or so. Which again, its bad but 2 at 25 would be 8 ish moa. Not acceptable to me but not shocking either. The op is double that.

Remind me to never buy a Colt. 4 MOA I can understand, but 7 . Makes me wonder how the military hits anything at 400 meters (1/4 mile).

 

[crestoncowboy]

I think it's a blanket statement. I have a couple colts that do better than 3 Moa. Ive never actually seen one do much worse (out of hundreds btw). Ive read that people contacted colt and that was colts response. I usually don't say things I didn't directly hear, but ive heard that from enough sources to somewhat believe it.


ETA a quick search brought up 7 5 and 4 MOA as their spec for a crime lined barrel so idk.
Either way this one is way above it

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I took the AR15 out again.
I was only able to locate SS109 at walmart.
The gun shop that normally has 68gr and heavier 5.56 ammo was closed. They are supposed to be open on sundays.

Started out great. The first Salvo all fit on a 1 inch square "tile" of one of those scope site in targets. The first 3 shots were right on top of each other.
But then after about 6 shots the group started to spread out. But not as bad as before. I'm looking at 2 to 2.5 inch spread at 25 yards. I also didn't let it get as hot.
Before they just sprayed like a shot gun pattern as the barrel warmed, this time they started flying higher as the barrel warmed up, instead of all over the place.
I put about 30 rounds through it as I was waiting on cool down mostly.
After a good long cool down the first 3 shots were pretty much back to bwing on top of each other again.

I did not do a control test with the M193 ammo to see if they sprayed like before. I would like to retest with with the M193 style ammo to see if the improvement was all due to switching to SS109.
The M193 ammo never even came close to putting rounds on paper on top of each other.

Again, 100% reliable.

What did you change or do different the the last time you went to the range and was the weather different?

 

[748]

Why "stop playing at 25 yards" if I'm shooting 4 inches at 25 why bother going to 100? That's like missing a target half the time at 100 yards then trying to shoot at 400. There is nothing magical going to make the bullets come back into a better group.

I usually shoot a couple at 25 to make sure I'll be on target them go to 100. Then 200. But if my 2 shots at 25 yards are 4 inches apart..... I'm not wasting ammo. Something isnt right

Not 4 inches apart any more.
Except possibly with the M193 ammo.

 

[748]

Remind me to never buy a Colt. 4 MOA I can understand, but 7 . Makes me wonder how the military hits anything at 400 meters (1/4 mile).

I thought I had read some where that milspec was 4 moa on these.
I bet the 7 moa ones go to the air force.

 

[748]

What did you change or do different the the last time you went to the range and was the weather different?

So far I have moved the scope and made it a point to tighten it down even more than last time. This is my first pic rail scope.
Recrowned.
SS109 ammo.
Scrubbed the heck out of the bore with a ".243" bore brush and a lot of hoopers No. 9 and got out some metal mud. I did notice I can really feel the gas port when the brush goes over it.

 

[nipprdog]

Not 4 inches apart any more.
Except possibly with the M193 ammo.

Get rid of the Winchester ammo and try some federal M193 ammo.

 

[748]

Get rid of the Winchester ammo and try some federal M193 ammo.

I will just feed the win M193 to the mini14.
I switched to federal SS109 and saw a nice improvement.

Unless something drastic happens with heavier ammo I will probably just take the scope off, mothball this upper and turn it into a wife AR15 build later on with a much cheaper scope.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Why not send it back? Any rifle shooting 4 inches at 25 yards with any ammo, would be sent back by most people. I'm sure they would swap it out.

 

[rsrocket1]

20" AR home built in 1986 from various Shotgun News parts. 100 yards from a sitting position and a $30 BSA Deerhunter scope mounted on top of the fixed A1 handle. 55g fmjbt from 223bulkbullets.com, 748 powder, range pickup brass (PMC) and whatever SR primers are available (Federal, CCI or Winchester).



I'm developing a compromise load that will be as accurate as possible in both the 20" AR and a 16" Ruger American Ranch bolt rifle. I think I'm just about there with 26.3g 748 @ 100 yards. Last week I tried 26.6 and the group scattered all over the place.


I can get them a little tighter but when one tightens up, the other opens up. I think this will be good enough. Not bad for a 16 cents/shot load.

 

[tarosean]

You may not realize it but PSA has now captured half of all US AR sales.

We have already proven this as a blatantly false statement. Where do you guys keep getting this trope?

 

[GunnyUSMC]

We have already proven this as a blatantly false statement. Where do you guys keep getting this trope?

It's simple math. A whole lot is half and a bunch is something like a quarter.

 

[Skylerbone]

We have already proven this as a blatantly false statement.

DC is producing 1,800 barrels a day for PSA. There are estimated to be between 5 and 10 million ARs in private ownership by the National Shooting Sports Foundation. I’m terribly apologetic for my Blatantly False statement; perhaps you’ll accept that PSA maybe, possibly, might just sell a really really large number of ARs. That or they’re hoarding barrels.

 

[tarosean]

DC is producing 1,800 barrels a day for PSA. There are estimated to be between 5 and 10 million ARs in private ownership by the National Shooting Sports Foundation. I’m terribly apologetic for my Blatantly False statement; perhaps you’ll accept that PSA maybe, possibly, might just sell a really really large number of ARs. That or they’re hoarding barrels.

The truth is in the pudding.. you will find the last 10yrs manufacturing reports about half way down the page.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics


Go through the data and you will find they don't even beat Anderson, much less companies like S&W.

Unfortunately we cannot separate out, AR's from the big dogs of Ruger and Rem.

 

[Bang!]

The truth is in the pudding.. you will find the last 10yrs manufacturing reports about half way down the page.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics


Poor through the data and you will find they don't even beat Anderson, much less companies like S&W.

Unfortunately we cannot separate out, AR's from the big dogs of Ruger and Rem.

I think my coffee is faulty this morning. Can’t find where in the report it specifies AR’s. Maybe someone can point me to the AR specific portion of the ATF report or the THR thread where this was previously discussed?

Thanks

 

[tarosean]

I think my coffee is faulty this morning. Can’t find where in the report it specifies AR’s.

It doesnt separate them out from Rifles. However, some companies only make AR's and we know who those players are. Or if they do make a bolt gun or two they are statistically insignificant to their AR numbers.

The problem separating out AR's from bolt guns when it comes from Ruger and Remington who produced 659657 and 443436 rifles respectively. How many of those 1.1m rifles is AR's is anyones guess.

Stripped lowers can be tracked in the Others/Misc category by the major players. Anderson, Aero, PSA, etc.

Here is a link to previously discussed thread, sidetracked from the OP, kind of like this one.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/50-bolt-carrier-groups.847210/

 

[Skylerbone]

My intention was never to hijack or sidetrack the thread. My point, and perhaps this was lost in my careless wording, the source of which I cannot recall, is that PSA makes a sizeable number of rifles, many of which are in people’s hands rather than collecting dust in the distribution chain.

PSA’s exponential growth in the AR market is a Potential (key word) indicator of a solid product, not a “minute of Crown Vic” piece of junk. Having read mainly positive things about PSA here and elsewhere gave me confidence in purchasing from them. I am well satisfied with their products and will continue to source from them.

 

[kBob]

Excuse me but is that ATF report for COMPLETE RIFLES?

Most of PSA sales are likely kits with no receiver or the sales are uppers either complete or w/o BCG and CH.

Most of their barrels then likely go to those.

Notice the OP was writing to us about a PSA upper, not even a "rifle kit" one must provide their own receiver for.

-kBob

 

[M1key]

^ that would be my thought as well

M

 

[Skylerbone]

Again my intent was never to misinform or steer the thread away from the topic at hand. Looking over the report shows a large volume for a number of known manufacturers, but does not specify the type of rifle. My bet is that more S&W rifles are produced under the T/C banner than M&P unless I’ve missed a separate listing (Smith owns Thompson Center) and I’d guess the 10/22 is still Ruger’s bread and butter number.

My apologies @tarosean for being a poor sport about your correction earlier; a rare bad day at work played focus on the wrong person as I have always taken your AR advice as sound. I should think from the reported numbers and despite a lack of categorization that 50% market share is not nearly correct. In fact I’m wondering if 10% wouldn’t be too large a sum. That is indeed a healthy number but not half and I appreciate a fellow member who takes issue with an incorrect claim.

Here’s hoping we can get back to the OP’s subject without further ado.

 

[george29]

My friends generic Bushmaster is far more accurate than my ability. At 150m with a low power scope I was hitting a 6x6 metal target pretty consistently, and my eyesight is crap today.

 

[748]

I'm picking up some special order ammo loaded with Sierra match bullets from my friendly neighborhood ammo shop.
I got the 69 and 77 great bullets.
Looks like if I want 90gr bullets I have to load them, so might not attempt them for a while.
I have not tried 40gr bullets but I plan to.
The rifle still has not malfunctioned, aside from spraying bullets all over the place.

 

[GooseGestapo]

If you can feel the gas port with a cleaning rod, THATS THE PROBLEM!!!

I’ve got a .300BO barrel I used to build an upper. I bought it used. Found out quickly why it was for sale and so cheap.
It’s a mid length gas system, with a 16.5”length. With original gas port diameter, it wouldn’t cycle the action even with supersonic ammo.
I had to have it taken to maximum size (0.120” iirc), but now it cycles supersonic ammo fine. Even at this large of diameter I can’t fell the gas port.

A burr on the gas port will cause the symptoms you have described.

SEND IT BACK.

PSA may send you back the front sight assembly, but they will replace the barrel. It should shoot better, A LOT BETTER.

I’ve got a PSA A2/3 upper. Flat-Top reciever with 20” 1/7” twist barrel. It shoots under 1” at 100yds with most 55-80gr bullets. Some Federal 55gr FMJ-BT bullets I bought in bulk will run 1.25-1.5”. It’s accurate enough to shoot in CMP competition... Almost as accurate as my RRA National Match AR. Enough I can’t shoot the difference in matches. I actually shoot better off-hand scores with the lighter rifle at 200yds... I use the PSA to practice with to save the Wilson 1/8” twist match barrel on the RRA.