Army green bullet source

[shuvelrider]

I have a cartridge here in Afghanistan that is the new M855A1 green bullet, meaning lead free bullet. Has anyone seen these bullets on the reloading scene? I did read a posting on another site of a person who found a bag of bullet at a gunshow. What I'm looking for is a retail outlet for the bullet so I can roll my own at the bench.

 

[rcmodel]

No, and I doubt you will see them.

Pretty sure the steel penetrator tip is big enough to classify it as a "Cop Killer" armor piercing round when used in handgun ammo.

As such, I don't think you will find any at the reloading store.

There are a whole host of "green" bullets for sale now from Hornady, Barnes, etc..
Just not that one.

rc

 

[jdownj]

The 855a1 is a 5.56 projectile... I thought AP was ok for rifles...

Pretty sure it is copper/tungsten... It flies straight and hits much harder than green tip..

 

[rcmodel]

It is, but lots of companies are making 5.56 pistols now two.

It's a grey blurry line, but I can Imagine the current government in power landing on the side of Cop Killer bullets or something when it comes to selling military surplus M885A1 Green bullets.

If there even is any surplus yet.
Last I read, ATK was working 24/7 trying to fill the something like 200 million round contract.

But all of this is just speculation on my part.

They may be selling thrm off the White House steps in White House silk pillow cases to finance the next election for all I know about it.

All I know for sure is, I have not seen anyone selling or advertising them anywhere yet.

rc

 

[jdownj]

Oh I agree completely that these rounds will be targeted if they get out... But right now AFAIK the Army wants to phase out green tips in favor of these over the next few years... So very unlikely to be any significant quantities will wind up on the reloading market for a while. I suspect that any available now at gun shows may be of rather questionable origin... Unless some are getting out as factory seconds or blemishes, etc...

On the bright side this should mean plenty of green tip for cheap... On the downside, more and more ranges are banning green tip... And the 855A1 will surely be lumped in, just for ripping up range facilities...

 

[rcmodel]

I'm still wondering why anyone would want to use them if they didn't have to by state law or something anyway?

They are certainly not a magic bullet for SD, useless for hunting, and not accurate enough for target shooting.

There are much better performing conventional lead core and solid copper bullets available everywhere for any use.

rc

 

[jdownj]

Well the army likes it because it flies straight and long and still goes through something when it gets there... But for punching holes in paper more accurate bullets exist... And for terminal effect in critters(2 or 4 legs), there are much better bullets... If punching holes in metal was honestly a goal, I would probably choose a different caliber myself...

 

[shuvelrider]

The "WHY" is why not. There is a lot of AP in private hands already, courtesy of surplus blacktip 30-06, not to mention all the tracer bullets that are of no use to non military folks.
But I,m not going to justify why I want to make some up for my own use, reloading is a hobby and that bullet has my attention to experiment with it at the moment.
You would think all the "prepper" people with their bug out bags would be all over this, some rounds in the bag just in case.

 

[kludge]

I have seen the pulled SS109 bullets (used in M855) occasionally for sale.

I think maybe it was at Widener's

M855 is not armour piercing.

 

[shuvelrider]

Yeah, I've seen those on the market also. Got a whole bandoleer of them from a unit range fire we did one time, pulled down bullets from standard green tip ammo have been available for awhile.
When I get home I,ll have to hit the local gunshow and see what I can find, also do some more internet searching for them.

 

[jdownj]

M855A1 is fairly different than M855... Not a true AP, but specifically designed to pass through intermediate cover, car windshield, etc and still remain effective. The jury is still out as to if it does that very well. It does contain a steel penetrator, which will be affected by any state, range or match rules against AP ammo.

Guns and Ammo has a rather interesting article against it.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/03/07/m855a1-should-it-be-the-new-round-for-soldiers-and-marines
Interesting to note that they have bumped the velocity by raising the chamber pressure to 63,000.

I have shot 2-3 mags through my M4 against targets, and it is my belief that it is more accurate than green tip, although I haven't had the opportunity to get both types of ammo to the range at the same time.

I wasn't trying to give the OP a hard time about wanting to load this stuff. I guess the OP and I just think differently. When I'm away from "work" I can't wait to shoot something more accurate...

If you find some, load it and let us know how it works... But to the original question, I wouldn't expect to see any real quantity in the civilian reloading market for a few years.

 

[longdayjake]

I talk to bullet pullers all the time and I have a couple of the projectiles I found. The word is, someone at Lake City sent a ton of m855a1 to be demilled on accident and someone in the government got all upset about it and froze all demilling contracts. That was about a month or two ago so I am not sure if they have released the contracts or not. I took this to mean that the government is not yet ready for us mere peons and subjects to own such a bullet.

 

[shuvelrider]

No jdownj, I'm taking offense at your replies. Actually I liked your insight to the topic. Maybe I'm just getting more blunt and to the point with my thoughts and opinions as I age.
Very simply, the bullet design fascinates me by the virtue of the military being forced evermore, to play the tree-huggers game of making the world a safer and healthier place. While at the same time of conducting a war, but we,ll leave the AO less contaminated----------just seems odd.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
I don't think it's that at all.. they just call it that because it (anything) must be called something. It's slang because it doesn't have lead in it. It doesn't have a green colored tip.
They use it because it's more lethal in many cases compared to common ball, plain and simple.

 

[jdownj]

I'm pretty sure the contract was to develop a lead-free bullet. I believe that much of the improved effects comes from the higher velocity.

 

[longdayjake]

they just call it that because it (anything) must be called something. It's slang because it doesn't have lead in it. It doesn't have a green colored tip.

On the three that I have, the tip has a very slight green tint.

 

[jdownj]

M855 is "Green Tip", actually painted green(US Version of the SS109) Steel penetrator, lead core, all encased by a copper jacket.

M855A1 is the bronze colored tip of a different material(Steel, coated with bronze to prevent corrosion) They call it the green bullet because it is lead-free. See this PDF:
https://acc.dau.mil/adl/en-US/382846/file/51537/Public M855A1 Briefing[1].pdf

 

[kludge]

Sorry all, I read "green tip" in the OP, it actually says "green bullet" which is the lead free -- sorry.

 

[hang fire]

IIRC, the Swedes did exhaustive research on green ammo they were issuing. The tests proved negative and the ammo was discontinued.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I pretty much feel compelled to recant my original post after reading one of the supplied links (shoulda read first). Lethality is linked to hitting/accuracy so there's some calculus/fuddlement involved.

If it's as accurate as old ball and more lethal, that's good.. if you can't hit the target, that's bad. Anyway.. learn every day.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

How's this thing work once it hits the target. (I don't mean how well, I mean how). I know the M855 tears open at the cannelure--what about the M855A1? It's got a core made of...copper? Jacketed with copper??

 

[medalguy]

I thought the idea behind the lead-free bullet was to make range clean-up a thing of the past. The government has spent literally millions of dollars cleaning up ranges where traditional lead/copper bullets have been fired since the beginning of military shooting. My remembrance, which may well be faulty, was that they wanted to make ranges cleaner for future generations. Right or wrong?