At a gun shop today

[RH822]

I was at a gun shop today, I was checking out an HP and I removed the mag and locked the slide to the rear. I finished inspecting the gun and hit the slide release and the clerk snapped at me to not do that. I asked why. This was his reply. It damages the sear and will make them go full-auto because there is not a round being chambered to slow the action down. My first response was to grin and say, Oh really? is this an inherent problem with the HP design? He responded No it's ALL automatics, I've seen one go full auto before. My second response, I handed the HP back to him (still grinning)and told him to have a nice day and walked out.

I have been handling 1911's HP's and countless other automatics for 20 years and I have been thinking about it real hard all day. It is not possible to damage a sear by hitting the slide release to close the action. The slide and the sear are in two different group assemblies of a handgun. The trigger sear is already "locked" (for lack of a better word) into the hammer sear notch, and cannot possibly move until the trigger is pulled. Even over time the repeated manual closing of the slide on an empty chamber can't possibly cause enough vibration to wear or break the sear. What do you think?

I think whoever told the clerk that bit of information was on crack.
BTW the clerk is a "gun guy" and has run the counter for at least 2 years that I know of. But this is the first time I had ever dealt with him.

RH

 

[Wesker]

He's a doofus.

 

[FTF]

It could make the sear "walk"... or that is what I have always been taught.

I wouldn't take kindly to anyone snapping the slide forward on an empty chamber in my Kimber... with such tight tolerances... nono!

I could be wrong.. that's always what I have "heard"... I can't see how it could be "good" in any way, however.

I also get mad when people at gun shops 'safe' 1911's by pulling the trigger while lowering the hammer! NONONNNONONONO! That right there makes me question them... sure it "looks" like the right way to do it..but it's NOT the right way.

 

[possum]

Is that all it takes to make a handgun full auto? sighn me up!

wow, that is about all i can muster!:banghead:

 

[Helstrm]

Releasing the slide will not hurt anything unless you do it hundreds of times, Over and over again and then I doubt and damage would happen to the sear. It is more likely that you could damage the slide from slamming metal together without the softer metal of the shell to absorb the impact, But unless your handgun is a major POJ it would take a lot of slide releases to see that IMO. If my gun is worn to the point that this casues an issue I would rather that happen without live rouns in the chamber.

 

[statelineblues]

The only time I saw a handgun go FA was 30 years ago during training at Ft. McClellan, AL. We had been firing all morning, and near the end of the day the guy next to me fired one shot clean, then 2 thru 7 came out in about a second. Range Safety Officers and Drills were on him in a second - took the pistol and brought it to the range table. Turns out the sear had broken (it was a WW2 vintage 1911A1). This gun was probably used for training for years before that part finally let go.

 

[Tory]

I'm not as worried about the sear as

I am about my barrel lug/slide fit. Slamming the slide the way you did is NOT the way to handle a gun that isn't yours, cowboy.

Another reason I don't let many people use my guns.

 

[Majic]

Try it on a highly tuned 1911 with a crisp no-creep trigger. No you shouldn't drop a slide on an empty chamber.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I finished inspecting the gun and hit the slide release and the clerk snapped at me to not do that

I'd have snapped at you, too. It won't hurt the sear, but it isn't good for a number of other components. I cringe every time someone does this in a gunshop (and it happens quite often). Always ease the slide down on an empty chamber.

 

[larry starling]

Fine if you want to do that to any firearm you own. But if it was my store and you were rough housing my product I was trying to sell I would be a little snappy also....

 

[obm]

i think it's bad form to drop a slide on someone else's empty gun. not so much because it does real damage in that one instance, but because many people take offense to doing that. respect other people's feelings even tho you may not agree with them.

i drop the slide on my pistols all the time, but i don't do it to other people's pistols. same goes with dry firing my modern revolvers, i do it all the time, but not with other people's modern revolvers.

 

[s&w 24]

with match grade light triggers(under 3 lbs) you will break the sear. You may be able to let fly with the slide a few time s but at some point the sear will allow the hammer to follow the slide. All SLP's No way. This only applys to poorly made models and the above trigger jobs, not a box stock BHP or other garden variety SLP.

In short ingnorance is dangerous but sometimes a little knowledge is far more dangerous.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

If Tuner1911 is around he can give you all the particulars of why you should not drop the slide on an empty chamber (at least with the 1911 design). The big reasons are that it puts unecessary strain on the slide stop (over time could egg out), the lower legs of the barrel, etc.
Doing it a few times won't hurt, but then you could likely throw your pistol up in the air as high as you can and let it hit the ground a few times with no damage. But why would you?

 

[Baba Louie]

IF it's your gun you can do whatever you want to it. If it's the store's gun, treat it with kid gloves and a little respect. It's still for sale.

I always ask first if I can dry fire once to feel the trigger break.

 

[Brian Williams]

I never treat a gun in a shop like that, I always lower the slide and only pull the trigger if I have been given permission. The hardware is not mine and I do not want any gun that someone would misused or handled hard. I have particularly oily palms and I have even brought a pair of rubber gloves to handle nice guns with.

 

[Waitone]

Paging Tuner1911. Call your office please.

 

[El Tejon]

1. It is a slide stop, not a slide release. It is a bad habit to release the slide with the slide stop.

2. It is bad manners to maltreat another's property. This used to be taught in schools but only violates the Right of Diversity. For example, spitting on the gun may not be bad for the weapon, but I would not think of doing it.

Chalk it up to live and learn.

 

[SuperNaut]

Can somebody please somebody enlighten us with data. I've heard the OP claim before too, and all the above posts list different things that can be damaged.

Does the case act as a cushion? Because from a layman POV the slide is doing the same thing whether or not a round is present.

 

[LiquidTension]

Dropping a slide on an empty chamber is akin to flipping the cylinder closed on a revolver. Once won't damage it, but multiple times can. Plus, it's rude.

When a round is in the mag, the tension of the round being stripped out slows the slide down. The brass acts as a cushion between the steel slide and the frame. A search in the 'smithing forum will probably yield good results, as that's where 1911Tuner does lots of posting.

 

[Tory]

Think it through!

Does the case act as a cushion? Because from a layman POV the slide is doing the same thing whether or not a round is present.

Yes, it is "doing the same thing" - going forward - but NOT in the same way.

A slide normally strips a cartridge (NOT a "bullet) from the magazine (NOT the "clip") as it goes forward. As the cartridge is under spring tension from the follower pushing it against the mag lips, this presents a fair amount of resistance, slowing the slide's acceleration considerably.

As the cartridge feeds into the chamber, there may be additional resistance, depending upon how tight the chamber is and even whether the bullet is lead or jacketed. This may further reduce the impact.

Letting the slide fly on an empty gun means none of that occurs and it slams full-speed against the locking lugs, etc., with that shock transmitted through the rest of the gun, including the contact area of the sear.

In short, it's an irresponsible practice.

As for not using the slide stop/release to release the slide, I disagree. Why do you think it has that angled, grooved extension, if not for that purpose?

Using a "slingshot slide release" means wasting time on your reloads. Your weak hand should slide back into your grip after seating the mag while your thumb hits the release (assuming you shot to slide lock). Note that extended slide releases are made precisely to facilitate this practice.

 

[SuperNaut]

Thanks Tory, that makes sense.

 

[Master Blaster]

The clerk was correct and you were WRONG.
His shop, his gun, his rules.
You can damage the gun doing that, any gun. You may be able to get away with it hundreds of times on one gun and have a major part failure/damage the first time you do it on another gun.
Its also a matter of respecting somone elses property.

Hopefully you dont think its Ok to flick the cylinder closed on a revolver also.



Have a nice day.

 

[halvey]

I finished inspecting the gun and hit the slide release and the clerk snapped at me to not do that.

That was stupid of you to do. Glad to see the only idiots aren't behind the gun counter.

 

[STAGE 2]

I call baloney. If you as a clerk dont want a customer to drop the slide THEN SAY SO BEFORE YOU HAND OVER THE PISTOL. People aren't mind readers and you can't expect them to be. Different shops have different rules as do people. When I go in to potentially buy a gun I try everything. That includes releasing the slide. Why? Because that's how I operate my pistols, and thats how some pistols were designed to operate. I'm not going to plop down a bunch of cash for something as smooth as sandpaper.

If you have special rules then speak up. Otherwise don't get huffy when people don't follow them.

 

[Old Fuff]

Dropping a slide on an empty chamber is akin to flipping the cylinder closed on a revolver. Once won't damage it, but multiple times can. Plus, it's rude.

Actually doing it once to a revolver can damage it. It depends on the "force of the flip" and the weight of the cylinder.

Also dropping the slide on an empty chamber rather then lowering it is not a good idea. If I had been in the same shop I would have hesitated to buy that particular pistol because of the potential abuse it might have suffered over time, and not just this one incident. While it is unlikely that this would cause a Browning Hi-Power to go full-auto it is also a demonstration of ignorence on the part of the customer, and the salesperson had every right to make a remark, although they may have been off concerning the fine details. Once (if) you buy the gun you can drop the slide any way you want to.

Twenty years of gun handling doesn't make the practice right.