At a gun shop today
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usp9
Member
Common courtesy, when handling a firearm, is to ask first before doing a few operations. Dear Abby says always ask before;
1) Dry firing. Some say no, some say OK. If they say no, ask for a snap cap or bring your own.
2) Releasing the slide, some folks are sensitive to this. If the answer is no...so what? You learn nothing from hearing a slide slam home.
3) Take down. Some will say OK, some will gasp in horror. More common request for a used gun and usually agreed to if you demostrate you know how to put it back together.
Simple common courtesy will usually get positive relies.
1) Dry firing. Some say no, some say OK. If they say no, ask for a snap cap or bring your own.
2) Releasing the slide, some folks are sensitive to this. If the answer is no...so what? You learn nothing from hearing a slide slam home.
3) Take down. Some will say OK, some will gasp in horror. More common request for a used gun and usually agreed to if you demostrate you know how to put it back together.
Simple common courtesy will usually get positive relies.
usp9
Member
Please enlighten me. Exactly what do you learn from releasing the slide?
What about the fit?
What about the finish?
What about the operation?
Exposure
Member
Wow, now that's taking "The High Road"
"that you should ask before doing something the owner may not want you doing? IE, dry firing, slamming the slide down, etc?
Doesn't seem that hard to me."
Different people have different comfort levels for how they work with machinery. I for example would have had no issue with releasing the slide on an empty chamber, because I had never heard (before I read this thread, obviously) that it is considered an abuse issue.
After reading these posts I've become extremely doubtful about the durability of the 1911 design, and pistols in general. If they can be damaged through such simple actions, what guarantee do I have that they will operate if I drop them?
Dropping the slide on an empty chamber is nothing compared to the abuse a pistol should be expected to resist in everyday use. I think I will be considering more-robust specimens than 1911s in the future, if such an elementary action will cause it damage.
"It seems a little arrogant to assert that there is some Golden Rule of firearms handling beyond that of general safety when there are so many differing opinions out there."
Precisely.
Doesn't seem that hard to me."
Different people have different comfort levels for how they work with machinery. I for example would have had no issue with releasing the slide on an empty chamber, because I had never heard (before I read this thread, obviously) that it is considered an abuse issue.
After reading these posts I've become extremely doubtful about the durability of the 1911 design, and pistols in general. If they can be damaged through such simple actions, what guarantee do I have that they will operate if I drop them?
Dropping the slide on an empty chamber is nothing compared to the abuse a pistol should be expected to resist in everyday use. I think I will be considering more-robust specimens than 1911s in the future, if such an elementary action will cause it damage.
"It seems a little arrogant to assert that there is some Golden Rule of firearms handling beyond that of general safety when there are so many differing opinions out there."
Precisely.
I want something that is crisp and properly fitted. Sometimes this is not the case because of the particular pistol and sometimes this is not the case because of the pistol's design. I don't want something gritty, I want something smooth. It shouldn't take 100lbs of pressure to release the slide and it shouldn't go forward after a sneeze either.
If you haven't already guessed by now when I'm reloading, I use the slide lever to release the slide on all of my pistols. In tens of thousands of rounds I've yet to have a problem on a variety of makes and models. If you don't think I'm going to check the function of a pistol before I buy it then you're crazy. If they would let me shoot it I would. Since they won't I'm going to do just about everything else to satisfy myself that the item is worth spending my money on.
If I'm buying a sports car I'm going to see how hard it pulls at the light. If I'm buying a gun its going to get run through as well. If the guy tells me before hand then no problem. If not then the blame lies with him.
usp9
Member
STAGE 2,
With all due respect, you didn't answer the question. The only operation you may judge by releasing the slide is the slide release itself, I'll grant you that, but fit and finish are issues judge by eyes and ears and tactile touch. One doesn't road test a sports car by slamming the door a dozen times to see how well the paint adheres.
My main point was the use of courtesy. Guns are expensive and owners understandably want them handled carefully until you buy it. Then you're free to anything you please. I always make a point of asking first and I can't recall an instance of being refused a request. Please and thank you are still the magic words. So...please have a great day and thank you for sharing knowedge with us.
With all due respect, you didn't answer the question. The only operation you may judge by releasing the slide is the slide release itself, I'll grant you that, but fit and finish are issues judge by eyes and ears and tactile touch. One doesn't road test a sports car by slamming the door a dozen times to see how well the paint adheres.
My main point was the use of courtesy. Guns are expensive and owners understandably want them handled carefully until you buy it. Then you're free to anything you please. I always make a point of asking first and I can't recall an instance of being refused a request. Please and thank you are still the magic words. So...please have a great day and thank you for sharing knowedge with us.
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Yes. And since its a crucial part of the guns operation its something I'm going to test before I buy.
As a part of personal experience, unless it was some 2000 race gun with zip ties all over it, I've never been to a gunshop that had a problem with dropping the slide. As a result its clearly not a standardized rule.
By handing over the gun, the clerk is impliedly consenting to let me fumble with it with no caveats. If he has any reservations its his responsibility to let me know. Post a sign, tell me, put a lock on the gun.
I've read otherwise. A 1911 site I frequent has a few stickies, one of which is functional check, geared towards pre-ownded 1911's.
In one section, the guide recommends holding the trigger down as you drop the slide (via slide release) on an empty chamber. The purpose of the test is to ensure that the hammer doesn't fall when the slide slams home. The guide explicitly warns that some sellers may not appreciate this test, and that you should ask permission before performing it. However, the guide also states that if the seller refuses to permit the test, you shouldn't buy the gun.
Take it for what it's worth. I've done it on all used 1911's I've bought. Only one seller was resistive, but allowed me to do so after I explained its purpose.
I wouldn't do it on a regular basis, but I think it's worth doing when buying, as "one last check."
GungHo
Member
A car and a gun are different. You don't get to fire a few rounds in a gun when you buy it, for example. You do get to drive a car around (though not like a maniac).
However, the closest thing to what you're describing would be closing the doors or hood. Do you slam the the doors/hood/trunk as hard as you possibly can or do you shut them like a normal person? No, you may not break the glass or bend the door hinges the first few times, but if you really want to abuse something, abuse yourself or your own property. Leave that poor car and the dealer out of it.
I just don't see what's so hard about easing the slide forward.
The "no one told me not to do it" defense doesn't really cut it, either. No one told you not to strip naked and sing "I'm Called Little Buttercup" from H.M.S. Pinafore.
redneck2
Member
Actually, quite the opposite. If you'd have bothered to actually read and perhaps comprehend my posts you'd have seen
When you're been here for more than a minute and a half, you'll (maybe) figure out that there are guys here that have forgotten more than you'll probably ever know. Unlike the typical internet warriors, they actually experience something before posting opinions.
I see that you have a grand total of 2 posts. When you've been around for 4 or 5 years, you may figure out who really has the answers. It certainly isn't me in many cases even through I've been shooting for over 50 years.
Perhaps I can reduce this to a level that all can comprehend. I was watching a show on the History Channel that was showing the NRA museum. The curator wore white gloves while showing the firearms, some which were extremely old, one of a kind and totally irreplaceable. The white gloves were obviously there to eliminate the possibility of fingerprints and the resultant corrosion. Now, when I handle my guns I don't wear white gloves and I don't consider it abuse.....
but if I were handling his intentory, I would wear the gloves. His property, his rules.
but if I were handling his intentory, I would wear the gloves. His property, his rules
Yes I would follow his rules too when he told me what they were. When this gentleman released the slide on the gun it was not stated or posted anywhere that he was not to do it. Many people have said that they have been to gun shops and released the slides with no mention of not doing this.(myself included) To make it simpler ,when you were in school didn't the teacher tell you the rules the first day of class so that you knew them from the beginning. This shop did not have anything posted, and nothing was said before he handed the gun to him to look at. I have been to the gun shop that this gentleman is talking about, and I have released the slide on guns before with not a word said to me.
This does not mean that he abused or mistreated the gun, this means that it has been done at this shop before with no repercussions. If there were new "rules" about not doing it then it should have been stated or posted.
Yes I would follow his rules too when he told me what they were. When this gentleman released the slide on the gun it was not stated or posted anywhere that he was not to do it. Many people have said that they have been to gun shops and released the slides with no mention of not doing this.(myself included) To make it simpler ,when you were in school didn't the teacher tell you the rules the first day of class so that you knew them from the beginning. This shop did not have anything posted, and nothing was said before he handed the gun to him to look at. I have been to the gun shop that this gentleman is talking about, and I have released the slide on guns before with not a word said to me.
This does not mean that he abused or mistreated the gun, this means that it has been done at this shop before with no repercussions. If there were new "rules" about not doing it then it should have been stated or posted.
Your money and your life, so treat your firearms any way you want to - but treat others' like they want you to.
FWIW, I never drop the slide on an empty chamber unless, as Colt mentioned above, it's to check that the hammer doesn't follow the slide home.
Then again, I just can't abide people slamming car-doors, either
FWIW, I never drop the slide on an empty chamber unless, as Colt mentioned above, it's to check that the hammer doesn't follow the slide home.
Then again, I just can't abide people slamming car-doors, either
I have to agree there. I'm OK with not releasing the slide on an empty chamber, and I don't do it on mine. But why else does a slide stop have a lever that releases it if it's not meant to be used (on a loaded chamber)? I hate slingshotting the slide back from slide lock. It's a wasted movement when time is critical. Economy of motion and time is the rule when the SHTF. Plus, my CZ 75 BD releases the slide when I slam a mag home hard if I want it to.
Also, if simply breaking a sear will convert your pistol to full auto, why wouldn't all the thugs just do that to make automatic pistols truly fully automatic? That doesn't make sense to me. It can't be that easy to make something full auto.
the pistolero
Member
Wow, nice stereotype. I believe it's practically identical to the ones the gun-haters like to cast all us gun owners into. I've been called a redneck all my life and wear it as a badge of honor. I talk with a deep east Texas accent, drive a pickup truck and I love George Strait and Merle Haggard.
But, even with me still being the relative gun n00b that I am, you won't find me letting the slide slam home on a brand-new pistol's empty chamber either. Why? Because I wouldn't want it done to any of my guns. Take this for what you think it's worth, but in the manuals for all of my 1911s it says not to do that because it'll either a. mess up the action (I think that's what it says in the Springfield manual) or b. cause premature wear and tear, depending on which manual you read. Once again, your mileage may vary, but I'm gonna go as easy on my own arms (as well as other folks') as I can, although I can see the value in performing "functional checks" such as the ones Colt describes.
Many years ago I was told not to do this. Then I was able to go on a tour of the Colt Factory. There I watched the final inspector who picked up the 1911 's as they came off the line, each one got a perfectly timed and lengthy inspection. He would dry fire each one several times. He would then take his thumb and rest it on the hammer and feel it for back slide when he pulled the trigger. He would also bring back the slide back to slide lock and then drop the slide stop several times. Not sure what he was doing but that is what he did, I was able to ask him about that, and he said "old wives tale" if the sear is not fully engaged, it might drop, if it does then it is sent back, no harm can come from it" that from the man at Colt.
usp9
Member
Good answer
The whole purpose of a forum is the spread of knowledge and experience. I learned something today, and that's a good thing. While I'm not a "1911 guy", I'd appreciate a link to the reference above. Sounds like some good info that could be useful with many other guns. I currently have a CZ project gun that has a trigger sear problem and I'd like to learn more. Thanks
The whole purpose of a forum is the spread of knowledge and experience. I learned something today, and that's a good thing. While I'm not a "1911 guy", I'd appreciate a link to the reference above. Sounds like some good info that could be useful with many other guns. I currently have a CZ project gun that has a trigger sear problem and I'd like to learn more. Thanks
No problem. The link below is actually a "link to a link."
I'm providing the information in this manner because, as a 1911 enthusiast, I've found the hosting site (1911forum) to be very informative.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=38698
usp9
Member
Thanks.
redneck2
Member
Now, this is absolutely fine. Long time ago I did the same thing and dropped a slide on an empty chamber.
Guy in the gun shop explained why it not so good. I apologized, said I had no idea. I didn't argue with him. Didn't tell him how I'd been shooting for however long. I tried to learn from my experience. Haven't done it since to my guns or anyone elses.
If you keep your lips zipped and your eyes and ears open, you can learn something new about every day. If you're too stubborn to learn, you'll never know more than you do right now.
mpmarty
Member
Gun Store Ettiquette
When I had my shop there was a sign over the door as follows:
"Please dry fire all the guns you are interested in, $5.00 per snap."
"Perform any tests you wish as long as we can't here the testing, close bolts gently, release slides slowly, close revolvers gently and if you drop it please catch it before it hits the floor."
When I had my shop there was a sign over the door as follows:
"Please dry fire all the guns you are interested in, $5.00 per snap."
"Perform any tests you wish as long as we can't here the testing, close bolts gently, release slides slowly, close revolvers gently and if you drop it please catch it before it hits the floor."
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