Auto_loader with hammer Question
- Thread starter 74man
- Start date
I did in informal survey of the first 5 pictures I saw on 1911 forum and 3 had hammer down and 2 had the hammer back. I figured it'd be about half and half.
doubleh
Member
Jimfern
Member
I think all the Seecamp 1911 double-action conversion kits ended up in Hollywood.
What’s the hipster term?
If the picture taker is anything like me, it’s because I just unloaded it. Or verified it wasn’t loaded. That leaves the Hammer back and safety off.
If it’s a picture of one of my guns in a holster. It’s ready to Rock n Roll.
halfmoonclip
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2011
- Messages
- 2,790
Now THAT is news to me; Rhino 'hammers' are tougher to cock than those on conventional revolvers. (I know it's not really the hammer, but an extension that enables single action fire).
Thanks again; never knew such existed.
Moon
halfmoonclip
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2011
- Messages
- 2,790
Jar, the retaining clip, on the opposite side of the bolt assembly, popped loose when I field stripped mine the first time. It took my leather jaw vise, a screwdriver, and one almighty push, to wrestle it back into place. I looked online for guidance, and found nothing...yes, it's one bodacious spring.
Oddly, actually racking the slide isn't that bad; the action is actually radial delayed blowback. There is supposed to be a .380 version, but the .32 has mild recoil.
Thanks,
Moon
It was their answer/workaround for stage with Safe Gun Rosters, but have a Loophole for SA revolvers (for concessions made to get support to pass the original bill). The SAO models are not subject to testing to be imported into the state.
Chiappa offers a kit, purchased separately, of "repair" parts to restore the DA feature
halfmoonclip
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2011
- Messages
- 2,790
The correct term is 'SA'. The only time it makes sense to add the 'O' is if you're talking about a pistol that would normally be SA/DA and has been altered so it isn't. Then you're emphasizing the 'O' because normally it would be unexpected in the design in question.
In a design that isn't typically DA or SA/DA, then you can just say 'SA' and all the information required has been conveyed.
JTQ
Member
While "SAO" bothers you, "SA/DA" bothers me.
I'm sure there may be some, but I can't think of a "SA/DA" gun that starts with the first shot being single action (SA), and subsequent shots are double action (DA). I also can't think of any company that uses "SA/DA" in their literature, though I suppose, there must be somebody that does. However, there are many guns that are "DA/SA" where the first shot is DA and subsequent shots are SA, and most companies that use those features on their guns use DA/SA in their company literature.
CZ 75 B
www.czub.cz
"A modern version of one of the most famous pistols of all time. This all-steel, large-caliber SA | DA pistol with an external hammer still captivates users with its superb ergonomics and low trigger pull weight. The letter B stands for the automatic striker block, which improves drop safety."
Most CZ75's are carried hammer back safety on. In the case of a hard primer, you could keep pulling the DA trigger till that round goes off. Most would eject the dud round and try the next one.
Last edited:
JTQ
Member
Fair enough, though at CZ-USA, they list their CZ75B trigger mechanism as DA/SA and sayCZ 75 B
"A modern version of one of the most famous pistols of all time. This all-steel, large-caliber SA | DA pistol with an external hammer still captivates users with its superb ergonomics and low trigger pull weight. The letter B stands for the automatic striker block, which improves drop safety."
Most CZ75's are carried hammer back safety on. In the case of a hard primer, you could keep pulling the DA trigger till that round goes off. Most would eject the dud round and try the next one.
CZ 75 B - CZ-USA
CZ 75 B is used by more governments, militaries, police and security agencies than any other pistol in the world.
cz-usa.com
and on the other hand, Beretta lists their 92XI as "SAO"
92XI SAO
The Beretta 92XI SAO Pistol brings the long-awaited frame mounted safety to the standard Beretta 92 Pistol family of products. Learn more about the ergonomic enhancements to the Beretta 92XI Pistol.
www.beretta.com
Fair enough, though at CZ-USA, they list their CZ75B trigger mechanism as DA/SA and say
CZ 75 B - CZ-USA
CZ 75 B is used by more governments, militaries, police and security agencies than any other pistol in the world.
and on the other hand, Beretta lists their 92XI as "SAO"
92XI SAO
The Beretta 92XI SAO Pistol brings the long-awaited frame mounted safety to the standard Beretta 92 Pistol family of products. Learn more about the ergonomic enhancements to the Beretta 92XI Pistol.
Countering your counterpoint: Here is the CZ USA description on the CZ75 SP01
CZ 75 SP-01 - CZ-USA
The CZ 75 SP-01 is the first full size handgun from CZ to feature the improved manufacturing technology and ergonomics of the NATO-approved CZ 75 Compact P-01 model.
cz-usa.com
"The CZ 75 SP-01 is the first full size handgun (4.6” bbl) from CZ to feature the improved manufacturing technology and ergonomics of the NATO-approved CZ 75 Compact P-01 model. Featuring an integral 1913 accessory rail on the dust cover, rubber grip panels, and CZ’s corrosion resistant black polycoat finish, the SP-01 is the newest model to join the family of pistols based on the CZ 75 (SA/DA) platform. Borrowing from the improved grip geometry of the compact P-01, the SP-01 utilizes an extended beavertail to protect shooter’s strong hand as well as allowing for a deeper and more secure grip. The new grip geometry, checkering in key areas on the front and back straps, and redistribution of mass provided by the accessory rail noticeably decrease the perceived recoil from previous models and allows for more rapid target acquisition and transition."
JTQ
Member
Still list the "trigger mech" as DA/SA, though.Countering your counterpoint: Here is the CZ USA description on the CZ75 SP01
CZ 75 SP-01 - CZ-USA
The CZ 75 SP-01 is the first full size handgun from CZ to feature the improved manufacturing technology and ergonomics of the NATO-approved CZ 75 Compact P-01 model.
"The CZ 75 SP-01 is the first full size handgun (4.6” bbl) from CZ to feature the improved manufacturing technology and ergonomics of the NATO-approved CZ 75 Compact P-01 model. Featuring an integral 1913 accessory rail on the dust cover, rubber grip panels, and CZ’s corrosion resistant black polycoat finish, the SP-01 is the newest model to join the family of pistols based on the CZ 75 (SA/DA) platform. Borrowing from the improved grip geometry of the compact P-01, the SP-01 utilizes an extended beavertail to protect shooter’s strong hand as well as allowing for a deeper and more secure grip. The new grip geometry, checkering in key areas on the front and back straps, and redistribution of mass provided by the accessory rail noticeably decrease the perceived recoil from previous models and allows for more rapid target acquisition and transition."
Edit to add: I would attribute the "SA/DA" references in the CZ literature to a combination of non-native English speakers combined with non-shooting marketing people.
It doesn't bother me. I commented in response to two other posts because I don't think its use warrants disparagement of those who do use it and I also don't think its use is really needed except in a rather unusual case.
Interesting. I'd never considered the designation as being an indicator of the order of the function and have always thought of the term 'SA/DA' as being completely interchangeable with the designation 'DA/SA'. Googling both terms indicates that they both return about the same number of hits which would support the idea that they are usually considered interchangeable.
I suppose if one really feels like the term needs to reflect order of operations, one could reverse the order. That's going to be a bit problematic, however, given that most pistols of this type would usually have the first shot SA since it requires operating the slide to load a round and that would leave the gun cocked unless it has a decocking safety that is applied when the slide is operated.
I guess one could say that the guns are 'SA/SA or DA/SA if decocked for the first round', but I'm pretty sure that usage, besides being awkward, would be met with derision by some--and probably for good reason.
The simpler designation 'DA' is really also acceptable for these pistols, although it seems much more common to use the SA/DA or DA/SA designations.
Bill_in_TR
Member
Well we have the spelling police, the grammar police and the terminology police. It seems like a silly way to spend time on a discussion forum disparaging people when the intended meaning is crystal clear.
aaaaa
Member
SAO is a harmless redundancy. Looking up Fudd online says it refers to Elmer Fudd, who I thought was this cartoonl farmer/rancher who used his shotgun to ward off tresspassers, but I have not watched that cartoon in about 50 years so my memory may be way off. Urban dictionary says Fudd is someone who thinks guns are only for hunting and does not understand the 2nd Amendment. Not sure then, what Fudd has to do with a redundant classification of a gun's action.
aaaaa
Member
We have too much free time. Probably should use it more wisely getting firearms training or something.
I thought it had been already answered...maybe a little too subtly
It isn't a "safety concern" or "safety issue" in the common usage of those terms. It is just common practice for folks to be able to apply the thumb safety
Atavar
Member
Just to carry on, it is FUD, (one ‘D’) an internet acronym for "fear, uncertainty and doubt", which really doesn’t apply in the original citation.
FUD
[ ef-yoo-dee, fuhd ]SHOW IPA
abbreviation, noun,plural FUDs.
fear, uncertainty, and doubt:
Her article should help reduce FUD and increase understanding about the upcoming policy changes.
Traders are concerned about the effect of the current FUD factor on stock markets.
FUDs about the new technology are keeping people from buying into it.
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!
www.dictionary.com
"A Fudd is a gun owner who doesn’t care what laws get passed, as long as they can keep their deer rifle/duck gun/revolver whatever."
progunmillennial.com
"A gun owner who's okay with all sorts of gun control so long as it doesn't affect him and his hunting lifestyle."
"A "Fudd" is typically referring to a PERSON who selective in his or her application of the 2nd Amendment, usually by eschewing EBRs (evil black rifles) or any other firearm not delusionally deemed as a "hunting gun."
To understand Fuddness or Fuddery more Jim Zumbo (was a popular gun writer, hunter, etc) exemplified Fuddness with the Blog he wrote back in 2007 on Outdoor Life's website.
Quoting Jim Zumbo from Wiki:
"I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.
I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."
Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."
This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries [sic] and woods."
en.wikipedia.org
This article explains what happened to Jim after those comments. In short he got fired.
www.outdoorlife.com
Modern day - some uninformed gun owners incorrectly link all bolt actions, lever actions, double barrel shotguns, revolvers, 1911s, and hunting guns into the category of Fudd Guns.
Archetypes of the Gun Owner: Fred the Fudd
First gun owner archetype up for dissection: Fred the Fudd
progunmillennial.com
"A gun owner who's okay with all sorts of gun control so long as it doesn't affect him and his hunting lifestyle."
"A "Fudd" is typically referring to a PERSON who selective in his or her application of the 2nd Amendment, usually by eschewing EBRs (evil black rifles) or any other firearm not delusionally deemed as a "hunting gun."
To understand Fuddness or Fuddery more Jim Zumbo (was a popular gun writer, hunter, etc) exemplified Fuddness with the Blog he wrote back in 2007 on Outdoor Life's website.
Quoting Jim Zumbo from Wiki:
"I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.
I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."
Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."
This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries [sic] and woods."
Jim Zumbo - Wikipedia
This article explains what happened to Jim after those comments. In short he got fired.
Black Rifles, Reputations, and Redemption: What Really Happened to Jim Zumbo
Jim Zumbo, Outdoor Life's former (and beloved) hunting editor, sets the record straight on the end (and the revival) of his career.
www.outdoorlife.com
Modern day - some uninformed gun owners incorrectly link all bolt actions, lever actions, double barrel shotguns, revolvers, 1911s, and hunting guns into the category of Fudd Guns.
